I was curious what you guys think about the coach. Despite a roster constructed to win now, this season has been a complete trainwreck. We've seen some downright awful defense, lack of effort, and poor teamwork. Hornacek, for the most part, has evaded criticism. Instead, Phil and the players have been taking the blame. Now nobody is praising Hornacek, but how much is this is on him? Was this just a poorly constructed roster? Has Hornacek just been a poor fit? I'm not advocating anything drastic like a coaching change, but I'm just trying to evaluate the hire as a whole. What do yall think?
I like him. I think I give him a pass sort of because it seems like he has been 'forced' to implement Phil's Triangle.
I don't know how much of this is true, but I would be interested in seeing him just coach his system free of distractions (Melo/Phil).
franco12 wrote:I like him. I think I give him a pass sort of because it seems like he has been 'forced' to implement Phil's Triangle.I don't know how much of this is true, but I would be interested in seeing him just coach his system free of distractions (Melo/Phil).
Hasn't the Triangle looked better under Jeff than it did Fisher?
Doesn't that show two things?
#1 That Jeff is a good coach on offense and can adapt his tactics
#2 That the Triangle is a good offense that if run at a high pace can work especially with talent like Kristaps to stretch/space the offense.
I think Jeff's a good coach on offense. His leadership is ok. Not a great leader nor a bad one. Where I have problems with him is defense. He does not make too many defensive adjustments and when he does, they are not consistent. He needed to see his team was struggling defensively early in the season and make some changes to the rotation and lineup. He didn't. He stuck with the same kind of plan most of the season. Rambis does not get final calls on lineups.
I'd like to give him one more season with some better defensive players. More athleticism. Players that can also play passing lanes and get steals, because we do not force much turnovers or get steals, which is a key part of being able to get easy quick baskets.
Just understand that EVERY coach needs that guy on the floor who is an extension of him on the court! That ain't Rose and that ain't Melo either. Baker has been the closest thing to that as he is developing. Hornacek had a guy like Dragic before and that makes a HUGE difference. Drafting or signing a floor leader who can be what Hornacek needs will be very important.
Phil needs to leave. I dont think he's done a good job honestly and the way to play is not slow but fast. 25 other teams are playing fast and our players are just not in the right physical conditioning to match them.
Cartman718 wrote:Phil needs to leave. I dont think he's done a good job honestly and the way to play is not slow but fast. 25 other teams are playing fast and our players are just not in the right physical conditioning to match them.
The Knicks are 16th in Pace! Part of the issue is Melo doesn't play fast! I don't really think this is our biggest issue. I doubt Phil is gonna draft slow players this summer.
nixluva wrote:Just understand that EVERY coach needs that guy on the floor who is an extension of him on the court! That ain't Rose and that ain't Melo either. Baker has been the closest thing to that as he is developing. Hornacek had a guy like Dragic before and that makes a HUGE difference. Drafting or signing a floor leader who can be what Hornacek needs will be very important.
Rose and Lee don't work great together but Rose and Baker look really good. I remember even when Baker started a few games with Rose, there was some nice stuff.
I don't know if Baker is capable to play big minutes, but he's a nice backup to have. I also think Rose is extremely underrated by our fan base. He is the only guard on the team that can constantly attack and break down a defense. You can not win in this league without atleast one guard who can do what Rose does. The thing is, there's also Melo. So it's been hard to share the ball between the two of them and KP.
I think if we just have Rose and KP, then guys that catch and shoot around them, cut. Defend. The team will do very well. I also like Rose's competitive spirit. I'm not interested in Mike Conley money. Forget about it. But if he's not BSing and ge really wants to stay a Knick, I do a 4 year deal worth 90M with the 4th year being a team option. Then use the MLE to upgrade the bench, as the MLE is quite high now at nearly $8.5M. Of course that is all based on us not drafting a young point guard in the lottery, and also Melo accepting a trade to move on. If Melo is staying, regardless we should let Rose walk.
However realize Rose is 28 still very explosive and looks like he has no more longterm health issues. The player next to him has to be a playmaker as well. Lee is a scorer/shooter. Baker is a playmaker. Maybe look to get a 2 with MLE who likes to do what Baker does, which is pass the ball and look for the open man. Rose can then be more of a natural 2.
Rose does demonstrate the need for penetration! That's why Phil got him and he's been good at doing just that. We could draft a kid who does that and MORE! Seems like a lot of money to spend on a breakdown guard.
I don't think the roster is well-suited for Hornacek's coaching style, but i like him and hope to see him as a long-term coach here. With better guard play and KP playing mostly at center (except when alongside Willy), i think he will do well with the Knicks.
nixluva wrote:Rose does demonstrate the need for penetration! That's why Phil got him and he's been good at doing just that. We could draft a kid who does that and MORE! Seems like a lot of money to spend on a breakdown guard.
Yeah but what if we don't get that point in the draft or who we draft is not ready for big minutes right away.
Without a guard that can break down the defense consistently this team is in major trouble.
I don't know who we can replace him with in free agency. That's why I'm speculating maybe keeping him. If there's a better alternative I'm all ears.
It's hard to evaluate Jeff with the roster Phil gave him while also being stuck with Rambis on the staff.
nyknickzingis wrote:nixluva wrote:Rose does demonstrate the need for penetration! That's why Phil got him and he's been good at doing just that. We could draft a kid who does that and MORE! Seems like a lot of money to spend on a breakdown guard.
Yeah but what if we don't get that point in the draft or who we draft is not ready for big minutes right away.
Without a guard that can break down the defense consistently this team is in major trouble.I don't know who we can replace him with in free agency. That's why I'm speculating maybe keeping him. If there's a better alternative I'm all ears.
I actually think that if we draft high enough that player will get minutes. Phil will probably look to go after Jrue Holiday. He's a more well rounded player than Rose!!!
nixluva wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Phil needs to leave. I dont think he's done a good job honestly and the way to play is not slow but fast. 25 other teams are playing fast and our players are just not in the right physical conditioning to match them.
The Knicks are 16th in Pace! Part of the issue is Melo doesn't play fast! I don't really think this is our biggest issue. I doubt Phil is gonna draft slow players this summer.
why do you feel that Phil is going to draft fast players ONLY. Kuz is not fast. KOQ? Nope
People that he traded for... Noah...just as slow as Lopez if not more.
Rose...uh...fast with one on one...otherwise slow and super predictable.
KP...slow. That's right I said it.
nixluva wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:nixluva wrote:Rose does demonstrate the need for penetration! That's why Phil got him and he's been good at doing just that. We could draft a kid who does that and MORE! Seems like a lot of money to spend on a breakdown guard.
Yeah but what if we don't get that point in the draft or who we draft is not ready for big minutes right away.
Without a guard that can break down the defense consistently this team is in major trouble.I don't know who we can replace him with in free agency. That's why I'm speculating maybe keeping him. If there's a better alternative I'm all ears.
I actually think that if we draft high enough that player will get minutes. Phil will probably look to go after Jrue Holiday. He's a more well rounded player than Rose!!!
That would be a Phil move but I doubt Holiday comes here so that would save phil from giving major money to a below average to average player. It would be better than the really below average rose though but still not a smart buy.
Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Phil needs to leave. I dont think he's done a good job honestly and the way to play is not slow but fast. 25 other teams are playing fast and our players are just not in the right physical conditioning to match them.
The Knicks are 16th in Pace! Part of the issue is Melo doesn't play fast! I don't really think this is our biggest issue. I doubt Phil is gonna draft slow players this summer.
why do you feel that Phil is going to draft fast players ONLY. Kuz is not fast. KOQ? Nope
People that he traded for... Noah...just as slow as Lopez if not more.
Rose...uh...fast with one on one...otherwise slow and super predictable.
KP...slow. That's right I said it.
Kuz is relatively fast. He's certainly not slow! The entire point of Rose was his quickness. KP is not slow or perhaps you missed when he crossed up Draymond and drove past him. Phil tried out DWill, Early and Grant. He took a chance on Wroten. Clearly he's aware of a need for speed and athleticism. It's not the only thing but he's tried to upgrade in that area.
I can assure you Phil is won't draft the slowest and least athletic guy in the draft! LOL
He's been stuck between a rock and a hard place all season- Phil undermining his authority on one side, Rose and Melo undermining it on the other. I'd like to see what he can do without Melo and Rose undermining him both in interviews and on the court. I think he'll be better with a star-free roster next season. One thing that's clear, though, he is no alpha male, just doesn't exude any authority- I think the criticism of him from a suns source was bang on- "he wants to be liked". I wish he'd develop a harder edge.
smackeddog wrote:He's been stuck between a rock and a hard place all season- Phil undermining his authority on one side, Rose and Melo undermining it on the other. I'd like to see what he can do without Melo and Rose undermining him both in interviews and on the court. I think he'll be better with a star-free roster next season. One thing that's clear, though, he is no alpha male, just doesn't exude any authority- I think the criticism of him from a suns source was bang on- "he wants to be liked". I wish he'd develop a harder edge.
I think this is spot on.
Can someone really change that aspect of their personality though? Isn't he in his fifties? I would think his style is his style at this point - in terms of his personality.
I'd say Melo is a bit of a coach killer.
I thought Melo moved the ball pretty well yesterday in the second half. I thought knicks played pretty good.
GSW made our defense look pretty bad, but they are GSW even without Durant.
Regarding Jeff, I'd like to see him without melo.
KP has progressed nice this year as had Willy and Baker. Three young guys doing quite well, have to give jeff credit.
Rose is stubburn. I have not given up hope for him. Phil did well, the kid has been healthy. But he is Drose, and he is a bit of a head case on and off the court.
Hate the Awol, hate his not accepting the system, and have no idea wht his market value would be.
Jeff has not lost his team, had developed yoots and had to blend in himself. We have 5 knicks on the roster that did not play in the NBA last year.
N'dour, Randle, Kuz, Willy, Baker, and War (Plumlee).
crzymdups wrote:smackeddog wrote:He's been stuck between a rock and a hard place all season- Phil undermining his authority on one side, Rose and Melo undermining it on the other. I'd like to see what he can do without Melo and Rose undermining him both in interviews and on the court. I think he'll be better with a star-free roster next season. One thing that's clear, though, he is no alpha male, just doesn't exude any authority- I think the criticism of him from a suns source was bang on- "he wants to be liked". I wish he'd develop a harder edge.
I think this is spot on.
Can someone really change that aspect of their personality though? Isn't he in his fifties? I would think his style is his style at this point - in terms of his personality.
He's very similar to MDA in that you want to give him players that are good soldiers. No guys that are major problems or go AWOL. LOL
Horny needs his Steve Nash or Dragic. The worst thing is for Horny to be stuck with hard headed or selfish players. You see how the bench guys execute when brought in and they listen to Horny.
There is just not a lot to judge JH on, he isn't s entirely running his offense, Rambis is the "suppose defense coach". A lot of whats wrong with the knicks come from a mental approach, and the chemistry not being on the same page.
I thought rose looked great playing with baker.
yellowboy90 wrote:It's hard to evaluate Jeff with the roster Phil gave him while also being stuck with Rambis on the staff.
If you look at the sideline during timeouts, there is one assistant who is engaged in coaching and helping the coach. He looks like hs has the coaches trust. I'm guessing that is the one assistant the coach was allowed to bring in. Hard to make any judgements when there is so much dysfunction in the front office and coaching staff. The coach should be given the lattitude to select his staff and the style of play without interference. Until then, coach gets a pass from me
