Unless you are getting an LBJ Dwayne Wade Kwami Leonard type--dont spend big bucks.
Use the draft and be smart with free agency. Use the D league and smaller trades.
Im not fooled by our performance against Orlando--but you can see the bones of what could be if we stay down a certain path
Completely agree. Also, adding to that, continuity should be a factor. We can't turn over 80% of the roster each season.
BRIGGS wrote:Unless you are getting an LBJ Dwayne Wade Kwami Leonard type--dont spend big bucks.Use the draft and be smart with free agency. Use the D league and smaller trades.
Im not fooled by our performance against Orlando--but you can see the bones of what could be if we stay down a certain path
That's it in a nutshell. Everything else is just noise. Winning is secondary to the process.
Wow... I totally thought this was going to be a Seth Curry plug.
That being said I not only agree but would take it a step further. Look to move Melo this offseason and go into next offseason with substantial cap space. I would not bring Rose back either. Go with Randle, Baker, whoever we draft and can bring in. Develop a real young core of players. Keep the cap space. The real offseason is after next year, where the Knicks will have KP, Willy and this year's pick under rookie deals. Ideally you look to sell a pair of elite FAs to play with KP/Willy/prospect etc...
If the Knicks execute this offseason they could be looking at a liquid roster of good young players and over $50mm in cap space. Of course that puts Phil and "execute" in the same sentence. Hopefully we get another KP type player. Plenty of boos followed by great play 
BRIGGS wrote:Unless you are getting an LBJ Dwayne Wade Kwami Leonard type--dont spend big bucks.Use the draft and be smart with free agency. Use the D league and smaller trades.
Im not fooled by our performance against Orlando--but you can see the bones of what could be if we stay down a certain path
Agree completely...be conservative when it comes to acquiring talent, both in real dollar terms AND in age. Keep the overall trend to become YOUNGER, more ATHLETIC, and lower COST. Only dip into the pricey FA waters when on the cusp of contention. The fringe benefit of that approach is that a KD-type player will be stoked to join a team in NYC that is ready-to-compete for the chip.
Until then, be smart and judicious.
BRIGGS wrote:Unless you are getting an LBJ Dwayne Wade Kwami Leonard type--dont spend big bucks.Use the draft and be smart with free agency. Use the D league and smaller trades.
Im not fooled by our performance against Orlando--but you can see the bones of what could be if we stay down a certain path
I think this is what Phil has tried. Of course "BE Smart with Free agency" is a wide stroke. Its like, "We need to rebuild with superstars in their prime"......As said Magic Johnson recently.
To some extent, its very true. To some extent, thats what 27 year old Melo was at the time we got him. Problem was we paid big league for him.
Noah was a stretch but one that sort of went with Rose. Who knew Willy would be this good?? Kid barely played last season in Spain. They sit kids that are NBA bound.
Kuz was smart, Baker/Plum/Randle was smart. CLee was smart. Noah, not smart. BUt thing is on paper a trio of Rose/Melo/KP had that three star component that does work when surrounded by experienced depth.
Kwahi Leonard was a 15th pick and needed a few years to season. Wade was a very good suprise at the 5 spot (Darko at 2 LOL!!!). Knicks are using D league, did the eurostash with Willy and finally have their picks this year and going forward.
I thought Jennings was a good signing (for the money) and Rose was a worthwhile trade.
If I am the knicks I would not pick up anyone in FA over 26 y/o so that means Holiday would not be resigned. I would try to trade Lee and Melo and just pick up some vet minimum deals while saving cap space.
Been saying it all along. No more splurging in FA it doesn't work for the Knicks and really not a destination for top line FAs. Stick to the third tier players who are role players. Build through the draft avoid major trades that brings back bad contracts that cripple the team. Stick to the formula that the talent comes through the draft and once that is established then you can add the necessary players around them.
Vmart wrote:Been saying it all along. No more splurging in FA it doesn't work for the Knicks and really not a destination for top line FAs. Stick to the third tier players who are role players. Build through the draft avoid major trades that brings back bad contracts that cripple the team. Stick to the formula that the talent comes through the draft and once that is established then you can add the necessary players around them.
I agree for the most part but I would definitely be open to trading for young talent like someone on Noel level or Mo Harkless a few years ago especially when teams are giving them away.
yellowboy90 wrote:If I am the knicks I would not pick up anyone in FA over 26 y/o so that means Holiday would not be resigned. I would try to trade Lee and Melo and just pick up some vet minimum deals while saving cap space.
Holiday... depends on the deal. I suspect he chases a contract in NO to play with his brother. If he was open to staying here (he's an RFA) I have mixed feelings. He will probably hurt to lose a bit. He plays D, moves the ball, hits the 3… he’s a nice bench player. Bottom line I guess is I agree with yellow… especially considering he’s probably not a starter why retain him? He’s probably a MLE type player, but why pay $8mm a year for Holiday when you can either save the cap space or use that for an EU player who’s probably better? Kuz makes $3mm. Why pay Holiday more? I think he’s a casualty.
yellowboy90 wrote:If I am the knicks I would not pick up anyone in FA over 26 y/o so that means Holiday would not be resigned. I would try to trade Lee and Melo and just pick up some vet minimum deals while saving cap space.
I would like to resign Holiday, he's a good player, but not for big money if thats what it takes. The last thing a rebuilding team needs to do is invest big money in role players. It burns teams every year. Most recently, Orlando and Portland come to mind. Role players very rarely move a team from bad to good. But i would like to resign him in general, he fits what we should look for in our wing players. Shooting, athleticism, and defense.
fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If I am the knicks I would not pick up anyone in FA over 26 y/o so that means Holiday would not be resigned. I would try to trade Lee and Melo and just pick up some vet minimum deals while saving cap space.
Holiday... depends on the deal. I suspect he chases a contract in NO to play with his brother. If he was open to staying here (he's an RFA) I have mixed feelings. He will probably hurt to lose a bit. He plays D, moves the ball, hits the 3… he’s a nice bench player. Bottom line I guess is I agree with yellow… especially considering he’s probably not a starter why retain him? He’s probably a MLE type player, but why pay $8mm a year for Holiday when you can either save the cap space or use that for an EU player who’s probably better? Kuz makes $3mm. Why pay Holiday more? I think he’s a casualty.
I do believe that Phil may now get the value of going with lower cost options for non starting level players. Holiday is a nice piece but can we find comparable ability for less? In any event we've learned a lot over the course of this year's experiment. Most importantly there's NO NEED to spend like we did for vets last summer. They did not lead to WINS and we seem to be better when the kids play.
Knixkik wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If I am the knicks I would not pick up anyone in FA over 26 y/o so that means Holiday would not be resigned. I would try to trade Lee and Melo and just pick up some vet minimum deals while saving cap space.
I would like to resign Holiday, he's a good player, but not for big money if thats what it takes. The last thing a rebuilding team needs to do is invest big money in role players. It burns teams every year. Most recently, Orlando and Portland come to mind. Role players very rarely move a team from bad to good. But i would like to resign him in general, he fits what we should look for in our wing players. Shooting, athleticism, and defense.
still a buyer's market. I suspect NO gives JRue big money and offer Justin the MLE. Do you want to pay Holiday about $8mm a year for the next few? Im with you.. I like him, I just dont see the fit/timing
nixluva wrote:fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If I am the knicks I would not pick up anyone in FA over 26 y/o so that means Holiday would not be resigned. I would try to trade Lee and Melo and just pick up some vet minimum deals while saving cap space.
Holiday... depends on the deal. I suspect he chases a contract in NO to play with his brother. If he was open to staying here (he's an RFA) I have mixed feelings. He will probably hurt to lose a bit. He plays D, moves the ball, hits the 3… he’s a nice bench player. Bottom line I guess is I agree with yellow… especially considering he’s probably not a starter why retain him? He’s probably a MLE type player, but why pay $8mm a year for Holiday when you can either save the cap space or use that for an EU player who’s probably better? Kuz makes $3mm. Why pay Holiday more? I think he’s a casualty.
I do believe that Phil may now get the value of going with lower cost options for non starting level players. Holiday is a nice piece but can we find comparable ability for less? In any event we've learned a lot over the course of this year's experiment. Most importantly there's NO NEED to spend like we did for vets last summer. They did not lead to WINS and we seem to be better when the kids play.
Not all of them. Lee is a very good value and a nice core/rotation player. Sure he's stop gap, but he's a nice player. Noah has obviously not worked but the team's defense was much better with him and he's an excellent ball mover. If we move on from Rose/Melo next year you will see a much more impactful Noah if he can ever get on the floor
fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If I am the knicks I would not pick up anyone in FA over 26 y/o so that means Holiday would not be resigned. I would try to trade Lee and Melo and just pick up some vet minimum deals while saving cap space.
Holiday... depends on the deal. I suspect he chases a contract in NO to play with his brother. If he was open to staying here (he's an RFA) I have mixed feelings. He will probably hurt to lose a bit. He plays D, moves the ball, hits the 3… he’s a nice bench player. Bottom line I guess is I agree with yellow… especially considering he’s probably not a starter why retain him? He’s probably a MLE type player, but why pay $8mm a year for Holiday when you can either save the cap space or use that for an EU player who’s probably better? Kuz makes $3mm. Why pay Holiday more? I think he’s a casualty.
I do believe that Phil may now get the value of going with lower cost options for non starting level players. Holiday is a nice piece but can we find comparable ability for less? In any event we've learned a lot over the course of this year's experiment. Most importantly there's NO NEED to spend like we did for vets last summer. They did not lead to WINS and we seem to be better when the kids play.
Not all of them. Lee is a very good value and a nice core/rotation player. Sure he's stop gap, but he's a nice player. Noah has obviously not worked but the team's defense was much better with him and he's an excellent ball mover. If we move on from Rose/Melo next year you will see a much more impactful Noah if he can ever get on the floor
Agreed I like CLee. I don't include him in the Rose and Melo category. Noah is a sad case but as a big off the bench he should be fine. Perhaps he'll be more open to accepting a lesser role at this point. Especially if the team goes with a major youth movement.
I know this would not be an popular thought, but if Melo was traded, would Rose be a good fit if he was willing to integrate having given himself to the "Force" the last 20 games.
I have read when the lightbulb goes off, players are instictive to react to the movement.
Rose could be such a good player off the ball with sharp cuts that he could really free himself up. Being an AAU god of incredible talent I doubt anyone made him work that hard off the ball.
Btw, was Thibs able to get good defense out of him with the bulls?
Im not saying one way or the other if we should keep Rose. Im saying that if he wants to stay,and not just for the money, but actually a mutual decison with a plan to get his outside shot better, work off the ball to get free, and see the system thru, it could be worthwhile.
AWOL was awful, but this is business.
Great thread. I love what the Knicks are doing with the d league. Sending Baker, Plumlee, and NDour down to get playing time on the court is a smart move. Getting Galloway and now Randle from their d league team, guys that look like rotation type players for a long time, is exactly what you want to be able to do with your d league team. Signing or trading for Inglis and Jovanovic, players that have a lot of potential, is awesome. Hopefully the Knicks can build a young core that gets to spend a few years together and stop the constant roster turnover.
BRIGGS wrote:Unless you are getting an LBJ Dwayne Wade Kwami Leonard type--dont spend big bucks.Use the draft and be smart with free agency. Use the D league and smaller trades.
Im not fooled by our performance against Orlando--but you can see the bones of what could be if we stay down a certain path
Wait - we're you the one who wanted us to pursue Jrue Holiday?
Different day, different opinon?
fishmike wrote:Wow... I totally thought this was going to be a Seth Curry plug.That being said I not only agree but would take it a step further. Look to move Melo this offseason and go into next offseason with substantial cap space. I would not bring Rose back either. Go with Randle, Baker, whoever we draft and can bring in. Develop a real young core of players. Keep the cap space. The real offseason is after next year, where the Knicks will have KP, Willy and this year's pick under rookie deals. Ideally you look to sell a pair of elite FAs to play with KP/Willy/prospect etc...
If the Knicks execute this offseason they could be looking at a liquid roster of good young players and over $50mm in cap space. Of course that puts Phil and "execute" in the same sentence. Hopefully we get another KP type player. Plenty of boos followed by great play
I WISH you and other people would stop saying this, because you make it seem like management holds the cards.. It's like saying if we can get trump out of office by the end of the year will be a better country.
It should be "IF melo waives his NTC" which all signs are pointing to him NOT doing that.
knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:Wow... I totally thought this was going to be a Seth Curry plug.That being said I not only agree but would take it a step further. Look to move Melo this offseason and go into next offseason with substantial cap space. I would not bring Rose back either. Go with Randle, Baker, whoever we draft and can bring in. Develop a real young core of players. Keep the cap space. The real offseason is after next year, where the Knicks will have KP, Willy and this year's pick under rookie deals. Ideally you look to sell a pair of elite FAs to play with KP/Willy/prospect etc...
If the Knicks execute this offseason they could be looking at a liquid roster of good young players and over $50mm in cap space. Of course that puts Phil and "execute" in the same sentence. Hopefully we get another KP type player. Plenty of boos followed by great play
I WISH you and other people would stop saying this, because you make it seem like management holds the cards.. It's like saying if we can get trump out of office by the end of the year will be a better country.
It should be "IF melo waives his NTC" which all signs are pointing to him NOT doing that.
I think Melo might waive his NTC if Phil makes it clear he's going to focus on a youth movement. Melo should seriously consider a better situation for him to win now.
