Knicks · The "Im done" thread.......... (page 1)

few of these this year in contrast to other years. Usually we get posts about "see you draft time" etc......
Media is really heating up now as we will see more about how other teams are getting it right to tank, how bad phil really is, calling for phil's head, begging Dolan to intercede and do something (thats always funny) and perhaps the annual "have to check under the bed for the boogie man" (Isiah). I think someone even went full off the rails to insist Isiah was better.
We get fuzzy on our timelines and usually we look back and think "it was not so bad".
It was, and even worse than you remember.

That said Im not shutting down entirely but I think defending the indefensible (Phil) is a waste of time as well as puffing out your chest to say "See, I told you!!" which is really many real agenda anyway.
I have said thru the years that "Phils record speaks for itself" and when he is ready, he will speak for himself. I am guilty of being one of his surrogates at times.

The surrogates of the abstract have it easy. With hindsight you get to say you were right but there is no baseline to argue other than ones imagination that "I could have done better". Perhaps true, but no way to actually proclaim unless you produce a timeline. Media will no doubt add fuel to your passion and your agenda so have fun.

While this season has so many "Facets Of Disappointment" (trademark pending) its my only hope that:

1. We have been down this road before, but with no cap space.
2. We have been down this road before, but with every other 1st rounder traded or swappable.
3. We have been down this road before, but not with one of the best prospects in NBA history.

Yes, KP has hung numbers regarding points, 3pters, rebounds and blocked shots that no 2 year player has hung since perhaps Wilt.
Im not saying KP is wilt, but its better than arguing waiving and extending Amare or hoping Eddy's heart forces him to retire.

Willy has been a good suprise in contrast to the wreck Rose has become and Melo cute furry getup from last night.

So Nalod's version of "being done" is not to involve in every thread Crush puts up about Phil (dude, ask Martin for a sticky and consolidate) or Briggs brain synapse threads depicting his current emotion or something very obvious that he thinks only he sees even though there are 4 other active threads discussing the similar subjects.

I will neither be surrogate or emotional tampon for those in need. Why such a proclamation?

1. Knicks really don't need our help. Some of us think we are smarter than the Knicks because we threw out a few good ideas. Problem we are not on the clock or have the benefit of hindsight.
2. Rarely do we change our minds.
3. Nalod says every year, let the games tell the tale of the tape. Thats the truth. Sad season.

We are all together in this: We are all disappointed!!!

Free agency and the draft are of high interest. Unless Phil is leaving or being called out for dementia I look forward to the draft and hope that Drue Holiday sees his way to NYC (Best doctors and Hopsital for his family in the world!) and we draft a stud 3. If done, Melo will be Manu like 6th man which to me can still contribute and put up points to chase his quest. If that does not jive with his agenda then a list of teams can be provided. If he is being unreasonable, then he can stay. Im confident little drama will happen (Its not logical, right??) and they will work it out. Melo is a pro and Phil does seem to be very fair to moving players to good situations.

Very disappointing season for ALL KNICK FANS regardless of agenda or surrogate status!!
The only winner was Derrick Rose in preseason trial.

It is a disappointing season. No need to overthink it. Just focus on the development of our youth and our draft picks. Nothing else really to think about or invest any thought or effort into.

Knixkik wrote:It is a disappointing season. No need to overthink it. Just focus on the development of our youth and our draft picks. Nothing else really to think about or invest any thought or effort into.

Yes, but I do have 32,000 posts over the years!!!!!

Less Nolad is not a good thing...Say it ain't so...You are fair and balanced until it gets to Phil..But that's all good too..One must take a stance once in a while...The team is bad and gets to the best of us..The environment is toxic, what can I say, welcome to the Knicks...I can barely watch the games these days..The horrendous defense just makes it unwatchable...No rhythm on offense or a plan of attack...The team has no identity..But it's beyond all that...This is as bad as I have seen it...It makes the stringent supporters over the years rethink strategy...I wish I could tell you I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if it's the Knicks, it would be a train heading your way..They say it's darkest just before dawn, I don't believe that but seems appropriate at the moment..More hope I guess...Life as a Knick fan...

holfresh wrote:Less Nolad is not a good thing...Say it ain't so...You are fair and balanced until it gets to Phil..But that's all good too..One must take a stance once in a while...The team is bad and gets to the best of us..The environment is toxic, what can I say, welcome to the Knicks...I can barely watch the games these days..The horrendous defense just makes it unwatchable...No rhythm on offense or a plan of attack...The team has no identity..But it's beyond all that...This is as bad as I have seen it...It makes the stringent supporters over the years rethink strategy...I wish I could tell you I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if it's the Knicks, it would be a train heading your way..They say it's darkest just before dawn, I don't believe that but seems appropriate at the moment..More hope I guess...Life as a Knick fan...

Trust me, less of any of us is a good thing. We all get redundant as surrogates.
Im not watching the games and thus really can't comment on what I don't see.
Today there is an article that about shump that says "I was in basketball hell with the knicks".......Seems like he was bashing the knicks, but he wasn't, he just said losing sucks and going to a team that was winning was awesome!! If he said otherwise, one can say he was part of the problem of a 17 win team. But there is a negative pile on and thus arguing about as surrogates for our agenda is pointless.
I am hopeful phil succeeds because I like him. Some think he is part of the problem. Others say the problem has been there all along and the foundation was weaker,and until your solidify the foundation, you can't build up!!

But its all old now. This season is about next and tanking but with a purpose. Run the damn triangle, or what ever its called, see who sticks, weed out the non believers or the less talented and see what becomes of things. Melo is chasing history so I expect him to play. I also do expect Rose to perform as he is playing for a contract either here or not. If the lightbulb went off perhaps phil was correct in trading for him. I doubt this, but I can wish it to happen? thats really all Im about.

I hope Miami upsets the cav's, the Spurs take out the Warriors and they take the whole thing. Also I'd love to see MDA get his ring as well.
Spurs Cav's would be epic as well. Kawhi vs lebron would be a great match up.

It's not been a good season but I don't get devastated by it like I used to- I cared for my dad while he was dying, I work with people who's lives have been affected by cancer and with survivors of rape and childhood sexual abuse. In the grand scheme of things, watching your crap team suck doesn't really impact me too much. I get annoyed, I sometimes despair but I do think we'll get there in the end. If I didn't I would follow them. If it's no fun for you then I completely get you wanting to emotionally withdraw from it for a bit and invest in something more fulfilling.

I'm actually quite engaged at the moment due to the tank standings!

Did you just learn the use of the word "surrogates" and failed to conquer the urge of using it at least 15 times?

Jokes aside why leave middeason? When the going gets tough we need the real Knicks fans to hang in there. Yeah the team sucks, the coaching is bad and the GM is vulnerable, but this is the Knicks dammit!!!! It really doesn't get any better than this but we all know it gets a lot worse.

You need to stay the eff on, and keep posting. When in doubt, ride it out.

smackeddog wrote:It's not been a good season but I don't get devastated by it like I used to- I cared for my dad while he was dying, I work with people who's lives have been affected by cancer and with survivors of rape and childhood sexual abuse. In the grand scheme of things, watching your crap team suck doesn't really impact me too much. I get annoyed, I sometimes despair but I do think we'll get there in the end. If I didn't I would follow them. If it's no fun for you then I completely get you wanting to emotionally withdraw from it for a bit and invest in something more fulfilling.

I'm actually quite engaged at the moment due to the tank standings!

Well said. Same here. I am still DVRing the games, but I only watch if I read something worthwhile happened. Right now its about tank standings, seeing if Baker/Randle are NBA players, and (hopefully) watching the breakout of Willy Hernangomez who is my dark horse favorite to win ROY, although the Phili kid is putting up great #s

I go back to a little boy crying that the Knicks got rid of Bernard King. With that said, there have been 30 plus years of bullshit to recover from. There has been tons worse that happened to us over the years. Right now KP, Willy, Randle and Baker give me life. I'm salivating over this year's draft. This is actually a great time to be a knick fan. I got 2 baby boys at home. I anticipate cheering with them 5 years from now watching the youth from 2015-18 all become the new winners of the next generation of the NBA. That's what we have tho look forward too. To miss the beginning of it crying and complaining is just a tragedy in itself..

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:It's not been a good season but I don't get devastated by it like I used to- I cared for my dad while he was dying, I work with people who's lives have been affected by cancer and with survivors of rape and childhood sexual abuse. In the grand scheme of things, watching your crap team suck doesn't really impact me too much. I get annoyed, I sometimes despair but I do think we'll get there in the end. If I didn't I would follow them. If it's no fun for you then I completely get you wanting to emotionally withdraw from it for a bit and invest in something more fulfilling.

I'm actually quite engaged at the moment due to the tank standings!

Well said. Same here. I am still DVRing the games, but I only watch if I read something worthwhile happened. Right now its about tank standings, seeing if Baker/Randle are NBA players, and (hopefully) watching the breakout of Willy Hernangomez who is my dark horse favorite to win ROY, although the Phili kid is putting up great #s

That Phili kid was drafted with our pick! (I think as part of the Melo trade and it got rerouted to the sixers), ha, typical knicks!

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:It's not been a good season but I don't get devastated by it like I used to- I cared for my dad while he was dying, I work with people who's lives have been affected by cancer and with survivors of rape and childhood sexual abuse. In the grand scheme of things, watching your crap team suck doesn't really impact me too much. I get annoyed, I sometimes despair but I do think we'll get there in the end. If I didn't I would follow them. If it's no fun for you then I completely get you wanting to emotionally withdraw from it for a bit and invest in something more fulfilling.

I'm actually quite engaged at the moment due to the tank standings!

Well said. Same here. I am still DVRing the games, but I only watch if I read something worthwhile happened. Right now its about tank standings, seeing if Baker/Randle are NBA players, and (hopefully) watching the breakout of Willy Hernangomez who is my dark horse favorite to win ROY, although the Phili kid is putting up great #s

That Phili kid was drafted with our pick! (I think as part of the Melo trade and it got rerouted to the sixers), ha, typical knicks!

Yeah but the Melo trade helped us "win now". LOL.

Whereas Boston has just harvested picks and they are somehow 2nd in the East. They didn't overpay for Crowder when he was a FA, they let a ton of people walk including David Lee instead of trying to acquire "assets" in a trade. They signed no "stars" yet their fans cone to watch the games and they get better every year.

meloshouldgo wrote:Did you just learn the use of the word "surrogates" and failed to conquer the urge of using it at least 15 times?

Jokes aside why leave middeason? When the going gets tough we need the real Knicks fans to hang in there. Yeah the team sucks, the coaching is bad and the GM is vulnerable, but this is the Knicks dammit!!!! It really doesn't get any better than this but we all know it gets a lot worse.

You need to stay the eff on, and keep posting. When in doubt, ride it out.

Im not leaving. Usually every year someone has a proclamation of disgust and leaves with self imposted grandeur. I just said I was not going to engage in the daily dialog of those who take one media sentence and run it all the way. Like some that think Phil will fire Jeff based on an opinion piece.

I thought "surrogate" was kind of cool term to use. We got agendas and guys on both sides un yielding. Some read Phils books and have some basis of understanding when taking a position. Others view it from their perspective and guess what Phil thinks from that prism.

But, for those who forget, I do blame Phil, not because of the money, or because he is "old", but as president of basketball operations. But I am not in the camp that replacing him for some conceptual neophyte assistant GM because that is a better idea currently than Phil is a bit abstract and not worthy of arguing. Like when Magic Johnson says "We need a superstar on the lakers" and some how he is deemed brilliant.

Here is what we do know, sometimes you have to take chances and when they work out its brilliant. We take for granted trades like Bernard King to the knicks, or Spree but we go off on McDyess, Eddy, Marbury, Bargnani and Rose when it does not work out. In each case there was risk attached. Magic will eventually have to make a deal and take a chance. Otherwise he pays full retail, like we did with Melo. Melo himself has not been a failure or disappointment as he has performed as expected. That as we all know is also the problem with him. Because of the cost to get him was high, we stagnated our talent growth.

it is what it is. Whats left to argue?

Nalod believes:

Its easier to fix a problem than replace all involved. I won't defend Phil's firing of Fish because there is too much unknown. I think Kerr, his first choice would have been better, but also If Kerr struggled with the shyt roster he would have inherited and had his spinal problems as he did, I doubt he would have continued. GSW was gunning for two chips in a row and its a worthy quest.

Current "confusion" is to me "Players are being asked to make changes mid season and they instinctively can't react, thus are confused". To me its a tank job but the boss wants them to run the triangle the rest of the way and does not care about winning. IM ok with this.

Melo should want to leave. Not because Phil insulted him, but because knicks are moving forward and youthier.
Rose can still be an asset either by sign and trade or showing he can play the system. I have lost confidence this will happen but thats my opinion as to why he is still a knick and playing.

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Did you just learn the use of the word "surrogates" and failed to conquer the urge of using it at least 15 times?

Jokes aside why leave middeason? When the going gets tough we need the real Knicks fans to hang in there. Yeah the team sucks, the coaching is bad and the GM is vulnerable, but this is the Knicks dammit!!!! It really doesn't get any better than this but we all know it gets a lot worse.

You need to stay the eff on, and keep posting. When in doubt, ride it out.

Im not leaving. Usually every year someone has a proclamation of disgust and leaves with self imposted grandeur. I just said I was not going to engage in the daily dialog of those who take one media sentence and run it all the way. Like some that think Phil will fire Jeff based on an opinion piece.

I thought "surrogate" was kind of cool term to use. We got agendas and guys on both sides un yielding. Some read Phils books and have some basis of understanding when taking a position. Others view it from their perspective and guess what Phil thinks from that prism.

But, for those who forget, I do blame Phil, not because of the money, or because he is "old", but as president of basketball operations. But I am not in the camp that replacing him for some conceptual neophyte assistant GM because that is a better idea currently than Phil is a bit abstract and not worthy of arguing. Like when Magic Johnson says "We need a superstar on the lakers" and some how he is deemed brilliant.

Here is what we do know, sometimes you have to take chances and when they work out its brilliant. We take for granted trades like Bernard King to the knicks, or Spree but we go off on McDyess, Eddy, Marbury, Bargnani and Rose when it does not work out. In each case there was risk attached. Magic will eventually have to make a deal and take a chance. Otherwise he pays full retail, like we did with Melo. Melo himself has not been a failure or disappointment as he has performed as expected. That as we all know is also the problem with him. Because of the cost to get him was high, we stagnated our talent growth.

it is what it is. Whats left to argue?

Nalod believes:

Its easier to fix a problem than replace all involved. I won't defend Phil's firing of Fish because there is too much unknown. I think Kerr, his first choice would have been better, but also If Kerr struggled with the shyt roster he would have inherited and had his spinal problems as he did, I doubt he would have continued. GSW was gunning for two chips in a row and its a worthy quest.

Current "confusion" is to me "Players are being asked to make changes mid season and they instinctively can't react, thus are confused". To me its a tank job but the boss wants them to run the triangle the rest of the way and does not care about winning. IM ok with this.

Melo should want to leave. Not because Phil insulted him, but because knicks are moving forward and youthier.
Rose can still be an asset either by sign and trade or showing he can play the system. I have lost confidence this will happen but thats my opinion as to why he is still a knick and playing.

Good post, thanks for clarifying. I agree on most of this. Except about Rose being an asset. If he stays it should be like 10MM/per as a 2 guard nothing else. Otherwise he hurts KP/Billy's growth.

What's really sad is that our hope rest on a couple of d league players on partial contracts...while we should be talking about the multitude of quality FA we may sign, we now have to be content with hope these players amount to more then d league players...

If I'm Phil I would probably be hiding behind ghost writters and key boards to.

knicks1248 wrote:What's really sad is that our hope rest on a couple of d league players on partial contracts...while we should be talking about the multitude of quality FA we may sign, we now have to be content with hope these players amount to more then d league players...

If I'm Phil I would probably be hiding behind ghost writters and key boards to.

KP and Willy are d league scrubs?

Which free agents?

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:What's really sad is that our hope rest on a couple of d league players on partial contracts...while we should be talking about the multitude of quality FA we may sign, we now have to be content with hope these players amount to more then d league players...

If I'm Phil I would probably be hiding behind ghost writters and key boards to.

KP and Willy are d league scrubs?

Which free agents?

The Free Agent Fallicy is big with the Media and still with some Knicks fans. At this point I think we need to face reality. This team has tried to do this thru Free Agency and failed. At this point WHO is the savior FA that's going to turn this around? No, we need to try a different approach this time. We need to use the draft and player development this time.

The process is already underway and I can't see any other option with more potential for success.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Did you just learn the use of the word "surrogates" and failed to conquer the urge of using it at least 15 times?

Jokes aside why leave middeason? When the going gets tough we need the real Knicks fans to hang in there. Yeah the team sucks, the coaching is bad and the GM is vulnerable, but this is the Knicks dammit!!!! It really doesn't get any better than this but we all know it gets a lot worse.

You need to stay the eff on, and keep posting. When in doubt, ride it out.

Im not leaving. Usually every year someone has a proclamation of disgust and leaves with self imposted grandeur. I just said I was not going to engage in the daily dialog of those who take one media sentence and run it all the way. Like some that think Phil will fire Jeff based on an opinion piece.

I thought "surrogate" was kind of cool term to use. We got agendas and guys on both sides un yielding. Some read Phils books and have some basis of understanding when taking a position. Others view it from their perspective and guess what Phil thinks from that prism.

But, for those who forget, I do blame Phil, not because of the money, or because he is "old", but as president of basketball operations. But I am not in the camp that replacing him for some conceptual neophyte assistant GM because that is a better idea currently than Phil is a bit abstract and not worthy of arguing. Like when Magic Johnson says "We need a superstar on the lakers" and some how he is deemed brilliant.

Here is what we do know, sometimes you have to take chances and when they work out its brilliant. We take for granted trades like Bernard King to the knicks, or Spree but we go off on McDyess, Eddy, Marbury, Bargnani and Rose when it does not work out. In each case there was risk attached. Magic will eventually have to make a deal and take a chance. Otherwise he pays full retail, like we did with Melo. Melo himself has not been a failure or disappointment as he has performed as expected. That as we all know is also the problem with him. Because of the cost to get him was high, we stagnated our talent growth.

it is what it is. Whats left to argue?

Nalod believes:

Its easier to fix a problem than replace all involved. I won't defend Phil's firing of Fish because there is too much unknown. I think Kerr, his first choice would have been better, but also If Kerr struggled with the shyt roster he would have inherited and had his spinal problems as he did, I doubt he would have continued. GSW was gunning for two chips in a row and its a worthy quest.

Current "confusion" is to me "Players are being asked to make changes mid season and they instinctively can't react, thus are confused". To me its a tank job but the boss wants them to run the triangle the rest of the way and does not care about winning. IM ok with this.

Melo should want to leave. Not because Phil insulted him, but because knicks are moving forward and youthier.
Rose can still be an asset either by sign and trade or showing he can play the system. I have lost confidence this will happen but thats my opinion as to why he is still a knick and playing.

Good post, thanks for clarifying. I agree on most of this. Except about Rose being an asset. If he stays it should be like 10MM/per as a 2 guard nothing else. Otherwise he hurts KP/Billy's growth.

He is an asset at the moment as he is playing. When his contract ends, he is a small asset for a sign and trade type deal if someone wants him and has an deal for us. I don't think he can fit here going forward, but his talent is compelling at the same time.

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:What's really sad is that our hope rest on a couple of d league players on partial contracts...while we should be talking about the multitude of quality FA we may sign, we now have to be content with hope these players amount to more then d league players...

If I'm Phil I would probably be hiding behind ghost writters and key boards to.

KP and Willy are d league scrubs?

Which free agents?

I didn't call anyone a scrub, and willy and kp were not d-leagers, but you guys seem to be so excited about chasson and baker as if the ceiling is westbrook and cp3, when it's more like Ward and Childs, solid guys, but just not game changers or leaders.

The minute anyone says something about the knicks it's always related to the triangle, can he fit the triangle , can he coach the triangle, is he a triangle player. You don't hear that anywhere regarding any team

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:What's really sad is that our hope rest on a couple of d league players on partial contracts...while we should be talking about the multitude of quality FA we may sign, we now have to be content with hope these players amount to more then d league players...

If I'm Phil I would probably be hiding behind ghost writters and key boards to.

KP and Willy are d league scrubs?

Which free agents?

I didn't call anyone a scrub, and willy and kp were not d-leagers, but you guys seem to be so excited about chasson and baker as if the ceiling is westbrook and cp3, when it's more like Ward and Childs, solid guys, but just not game changers or leaders.

The minute anyone says something about the knicks it's always related to the triangle, can he fit the triangle , can he coach the triangle, is he a triangle player. You don't hear that anywhere regarding any team

Interesting that you can't just be happy about the team actually doing a good job of finding UDFA's that look like they can contribute and fit the Triangle. All that should matter to you is continuing to upgrade and develop talent. We know that players like Randle and Baker aren't stars. That's not really the point.

We will have the draft and still have Free Agency. Like it or not this is the process the team is going to have to follow. It's logical but nothing is guaranteed to succeed.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:What's really sad is that our hope rest on a couple of d league players on partial contracts...while we should be talking about the multitude of quality FA we may sign, we now have to be content with hope these players amount to more then d league players...

If I'm Phil I would probably be hiding behind ghost writters and key boards to.

KP and Willy are d league scrubs?

Which free agents?

I didn't call anyone a scrub, and willy and kp were not d-leagers, but you guys seem to be so excited about chasson and baker as if the ceiling is westbrook and cp3, when it's more like Ward and Childs, solid guys, but just not game changers or leaders.

The minute anyone says something about the knicks it's always related to the triangle, can he fit the triangle , can he coach the triangle, is he a triangle player. You don't hear that anywhere regarding any team

Interesting that you can't just be happy about the team actually doing a good job of finding UDFA's that look like they can contribute and fit the Triangle. All that should matter to you is continuing to upgrade and develop talent. We know that players like Randle and Baker aren't stars. That's not really the point.

We will have the draft and still have Free Agency. Like it or not this is the process the team is going to have to follow. It's logical but nothing is guaranteed to succeed.

Nix I got basketball team, a bunch of 12 yr olds that seem loss and are always losing. I would like you to coach them, you seem to be good with kids. You accept the job, and your doing a fairly decent job. One day I come to you and say, listen, I need you to coach my system, not your system, I don't care what you want to do, your going to do it my way and that's that.

Chances are your gonna quit and you know it. Your going to say to me, Listen, your system (as good as It is) these kids are having a very difficult time learning this, and im not really good at teaching it.

That's the frustrating for anyone

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:What's really sad is that our hope rest on a couple of d league players on partial contracts...while we should be talking about the multitude of quality FA we may sign, we now have to be content with hope these players amount to more then d league players...

If I'm Phil I would probably be hiding behind ghost writters and key boards to.

KP and Willy are d league scrubs?

Which free agents?

I didn't call anyone a scrub, and willy and kp were not d-leagers, but you guys seem to be so excited about chasson and baker as if the ceiling is westbrook and cp3, when it's more like Ward and Childs, solid guys, but just not game changers or leaders.

The minute anyone says something about the knicks it's always related to the triangle, can he fit the triangle , can he coach the triangle, is he a triangle player. You don't hear that anywhere regarding any team

Interesting that you can't just be happy about the team actually doing a good job of finding UDFA's that look like they can contribute and fit the Triangle. All that should matter to you is continuing to upgrade and develop talent. We know that players like Randle and Baker aren't stars. That's not really the point.

We will have the draft and still have Free Agency. Like it or not this is the process the team is going to have to follow. It's logical but nothing is guaranteed to succeed.

Nix I got basketball team, a bunch of 12 yr olds that seem loss and are always losing. I would like you to coach them, you seem to be good with kids. You accept the job, and your doing a fairly decent job. One day I come to you and say, listen, I need you to coach my system, not your system, I don't care what you want to do, your going to do it my way and that's that.

Chances are your gonna quit and you know it. Your going to say to me, Listen, your system (as good as It is) these kids are having a very difficult time learning this, and im not really good at teaching it.

That's the frustrating for anyone

This is the same tactic that Trump users in politics. Keeping making sh!t up to deflect attention from the real issues. With this volume of junk, something somewhere will eventually stick.