Knixkik wrote:Knicks are terrible defensively but you have to wonder, if you are starting KP and Willy together, but have Thomas at the 3, Lee at the 2, and draft Fox, who projects as an elite defender, we would be a significantly improved team on the defensive end right? Add to that improved ball movement, and that team would be fun to watch.
I'd sort of rather draft Josh Jackson and have a defensive stud at the 3/4, so you can go small and be great on D and go big and be great on D.
But I agree with what you're saying - De'Aaron Fox is my 2nd most coveted in the draft behind JJ
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Knicks are terrible defensively but you have to wonder, if you are starting KP and Willy together, but have Thomas at the 3, Lee at the 2, and draft Fox, who projects as an elite defender, we would be a significantly improved team on the defensive end right? Add to that improved ball movement, and that team would be fun to watch.
I'd sort of rather draft Josh Jackson and have a defensive stud at the 3/4, so you can go small and be great on D and go big and be great on D.
But I agree with what you're saying - De'Aaron Fox is my 2nd most coveted in the draft behind JJ
Right. I'm under the assumption that Jackson goes top 3 and we are drafting 5-6 range. But if we have the opportunity, great. Then rivers becomes starting PG in a Melo trade.
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Knicks are terrible defensively but you have to wonder, if you are starting KP and Willy together, but have Thomas at the 3, Lee at the 2, and draft Fox, who projects as an elite defender, we would be a significantly improved team on the defensive end right? Add to that improved ball movement, and that team would be fun to watch.
I'd sort of rather draft Josh Jackson and have a defensive stud at the 3/4, so you can go small and be great on D and go big and be great on D.
But I agree with what you're saying - De'Aaron Fox is my 2nd most coveted in the draft behind JJ
Right. I'm under the assumption that Jackson goes top 3 and we are drafting 5-6 range. But if we have the opportunity, great. Then rivers becomes starting PG in a Melo trade.
Hey, we're 4th right now. That gives us a pretty good chance to move into the top three.
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Knicks are terrible defensively but you have to wonder, if you are starting KP and Willy together, but have Thomas at the 3, Lee at the 2, and draft Fox, who projects as an elite defender, we would be a significantly improved team on the defensive end right? Add to that improved ball movement, and that team would be fun to watch.
I'd sort of rather draft Josh Jackson and have a defensive stud at the 3/4, so you can go small and be great on D and go big and be great on D.
But I agree with what you're saying - De'Aaron Fox is my 2nd most coveted in the draft behind JJ
Right. I'm under the assumption that Jackson goes top 3 and we are drafting 5-6 range. But if we have the opportunity, great. Then rivers becomes starting PG in a Melo trade.
Hey, we're 4th right now. That gives us a pretty good chance to move into the top three.
I always operate under the assumption we will go on an unnecessary run at the end of the season haha.
May be something to look at in the coming games, but according to Hornachek they are going to try and use Willy as the 4 on defense and KP as the 5 so that both can be at more natural spots. Flip on offense obviously. They feel Willy has the better foot speed to combat on the perimeter and KP has better low post rim protection/defense.
Interesting thing - can Willy defend 4's better than KP? We may find out next year. Willy will need to lose some weight maybe and get quicker. I don't know if it's going to work out, but we should definitely try it. On offense the two of them look really really good together.
nyknickzingis wrote:May be something to look at in the coming games, but according to Hornachek they are going to try and use Willy as the 4 on defense and KP as the 5 so that both can be at more natural spots. Flip on offense obviously. They feel Willy has the better foot speed to combat on the perimeter and KP has better low post rim protection/defense.Interesting thing - can Willy defend 4's better than KP? We may find out next year. Willy will need to lose some weight maybe and get quicker. I don't know if it's going to work out, but we should definitely try it. On offense the two of them look really really good together.
This is what's needed. If they are going to start together, we need to find out if willy can play the 4 defensively. KP is a 5. But offense is fantastic between them.
these are two players who come from BB families, literally have it in their blood, and both are gym rats and are very close friends. They certainly have complimentary skill sets on offense. Of course defense is will be the tell tale. Neither player is shy to mix it up defesively and both had shown the ability to make plays on defense. Both have also shown they can be overwhelmed. They are 21-22 so its going to be the slowest part of their games to develop but I havent seen anything that tells me this can never work.
Also when I say "build around" I am speaking in general terms. Willy was a fantastic grab. I dont know what his ceiling is but I certainly view him as first round talent. KP is lottery talent. I see a rebuild as 2 more guys. A guy like Ball or Jackson from this draft would sure look like one. Then my core is 2 bigs and wing and you start building the roster to put these guys in position to best succeed.
Guys like Ndour, Plumlee, Randle and Baker count as long shot prospects. If one becomes a rotation player on a winning team the Knicks have done a good job. That being said I like the "type" of guys we are looking at there. There isnt one. Randle is a scorer, Baker/Plumlee are blue collar guys and Ndour is an exfactor. I think he needs a year on roids
fishmike wrote:these are two players who come from BB families, literally have it in their blood, and both are gym rats and are very close friends. They certainly have complimentary skill sets on offense. Of course defense is will be the tell tale. Neither player is shy to mix it up defesively and both had shown the ability to make plays on defense. Both have also shown they can be overwhelmed. They are 21-22 so its going to be the slowest part of their games to develop but I havent seen anything that tells me this can never work.Also when I say "build around" I am speaking in general terms. Willy was a fantastic grab. I dont know what his ceiling is but I certainly view him as first round talent. KP is lottery talent. I see a rebuild as 2 more guys. A guy like Ball or Jackson from this draft would sure look like one. Then my core is 2 bigs and wing and you start building the roster to put these guys in position to best succeed.
Guys like Ndour, Plumlee, Randle and Baker count as long shot prospects. If one becomes a rotation player on a winning team the Knicks have done a good job. That being said I like the "type" of guys we are looking at there. There isnt one. Randle is a scorer, Baker/Plumlee are blue collar guys and Ndour is an exfactor. I think he needs a year on roids
Good stuff! I'm so pleased with what we see with KP and Willy so far. There is a TON of potential with these two. The draft is an opportunity to really round out the new Core with a Guard or Wing and who knows if we might get lucky again in the 2nd rd and find a quality player.
fishmike wrote:these are two players who come from BB families, literally have it in their blood, and both are gym rats and are very close friends. They certainly have complimentary skill sets on offense. Of course defense is will be the tell tale. Neither player is shy to mix it up defesively and both had shown the ability to make plays on defense. Both have also shown they can be overwhelmed. They are 21-22 so its going to be the slowest part of their games to develop but I havent seen anything that tells me this can never work.
Also when I say "build around" I am speaking in general terms. Willy was a fantastic grab. I dont know what his ceiling is but I certainly view him as first round talent. KP is lottery talent. I see a rebuild as 2 more guys. A guy like Ball or Jackson from this draft would sure look like one. Then my core is 2 bigs and wing and you start building the roster to put these guys in position to best succeed. Guys like Ndour, Plumlee, Randle and Baker count as long shot prospects. If one becomes a rotation player on a winning team the Knicks have done a good job. That being said I like the "type" of guys we are looking at there. There isnt one. Randle is a scorer, Baker/Plumlee are blue collar guys and Ndour is an exfactor. I think he needs a year on roids
100% and this is why you keep turning over the roster when you don't have those building blocks.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:these are two players who come from BB families, literally have it in their blood, and both are gym rats and are very close friends. They certainly have complimentary skill sets on offense. Of course defense is will be the tell tale. Neither player is shy to mix it up defesively and both had shown the ability to make plays on defense. Both have also shown they can be overwhelmed. They are 21-22 so its going to be the slowest part of their games to develop but I havent seen anything that tells me this can never work.
Also when I say "build around" I am speaking in general terms. Willy was a fantastic grab. I dont know what his ceiling is but I certainly view him as first round talent. KP is lottery talent. I see a rebuild as 2 more guys. A guy like Ball or Jackson from this draft would sure look like one. Then my core is 2 bigs and wing and you start building the roster to put these guys in position to best succeed. Guys like Ndour, Plumlee, Randle and Baker count as long shot prospects. If one becomes a rotation player on a winning team the Knicks have done a good job. That being said I like the "type" of guys we are looking at there. There isnt one. Randle is a scorer, Baker/Plumlee are blue collar guys and Ndour is an exfactor. I think he needs a year on roids
100% and this is why you keep turning over the roster when you don't have those building blocks.
That is true. At some point, when we have enough of these building blocks, it gives you as real direction and you can put players around them that compliment their skill-sets, instead of just grabbing talented players each offseason and hoping to fit them together.
KP and Willy were given more opportunities in March. The team has slowly began to adjust and now trust KP and Willy with the ball much more than in Feb/Jan. It seems the team is slowly forming an identity that they are a team that plays off their two bigs and looks for them alot.
Their March numbers were:
KP 18.4 ppg, 45.1 FG% 2.1 apg 8.1 rpg 2.1 blocks 25.8% usage
Willy 11.4 ppg 51.8 FG% 9.5 rpg 24.6% usage
Nice to see their usage rates both went up, and they both performed well.
Defensively is where the concern is more, but I thought when we had 3 guards/smalls out there yesterday, as in a smaller quicker 3/2 combo with Lee/Sasha or Lee/Holiday, or Sasha/Holiday, we played better defense around KP/Willy.
Why? Because Lee is actually not slow at 3, and Sasha always brings energy. The key to being a good defensive team around KP/Willy, is to have quick smalls around them. May be a good game for Phil to see that he needs to play smaller around the two bigs. Also O'Quinn is a much better defender inside than Willy. O'Quinn/KP also have nice chemistry. I think the way to go with Noah, O'Quinn, Willy and KP all on the roster is to make sure you play smaller at 3/2 the wings. Your wings have to be fast, defensive minded and able to move their feet in a way that the team doesn't stall or look clumsy or too big. May want to move Lee/Holiday to 3 full time, find a new starting 2 in free agency or draft or Melo trade. Get some quicker speed and more energy out there around KP/Willy.
nyknickzingis wrote:Defensively is where the concern is more, but I thought when we had 3 guards/smalls out there yesterday, as in a smaller quicker 3/2 combo with Lee/Sasha or Lee/Holiday, or Sasha/Holiday, we played better defense around KP/Willy.Why? Because Lee is actually not slow at 3, and Sasha always brings energy. The key to being a good defensive team around KP/Willy, is to have quick smalls around them. May be a good game for Phil to see that he needs to play smaller around the two bigs. Also O'Quinn is a much better defender inside than Willy. O'Quinn/KP also have nice chemistry. I think the way to go with Noah, O'Quinn, Willy and KP all on the roster is to make sure you play smaller at 3/2 the wings. Your wings have to be fast, defensive minded and able to move their feet in a way that the team doesn't stall or look clumsy or too big. May want to move Lee/Holiday to 3 full time, find a new starting 2 in free agency or draft or Melo trade. Get some quicker speed and more energy out there around KP/Willy.
agreed. Im not making excuse for IP/willy defensive struggles but its pretty evident with Rose not out there they arent put into too many bad situationa. Also baker and randle keep the ball moving and hits KP quicker which turne into better scoring chances
nyknickzingis wrote:May be something to look at in the coming games, but according to Hornachek they are going to try and use Willy as the 4 on defense and KP as the 5 so that both can be at more natural spots. Flip on offense obviously. They feel Willy has the better foot speed to combat on the perimeter and KP has better low post rim protection/defense.Interesting thing - can Willy defend 4's better than KP? We may find out next year. Willy will need to lose some weight maybe and get quicker. I don't know if it's going to work out, but we should definitely try it. On offense the two of them look really really good together.
I have begun asking for this since Billy became a starter. Is obvious this is more natural for both of them. Add some perimeter defense and we can start winning some contested games.
StarksEwing1 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Defensively is where the concern is more, but I thought when we had 3 guards/smalls out there yesterday, as in a smaller quicker 3/2 combo with Lee/Sasha or Lee/Holiday, or Sasha/Holiday, we played better defense around KP/Willy.Why? Because Lee is actually not slow at 3, and Sasha always brings energy. The key to being a good defensive team around KP/Willy, is to have quick smalls around them. May be a good game for Phil to see that he needs to play smaller around the two bigs. Also O'Quinn is a much better defender inside than Willy. O'Quinn/KP also have nice chemistry. I think the way to go with Noah, O'Quinn, Willy and KP all on the roster is to make sure you play smaller at 3/2 the wings. Your wings have to be fast, defensive minded and able to move their feet in a way that the team doesn't stall or look clumsy or too big. May want to move Lee/Holiday to 3 full time, find a new starting 2 in free agency or draft or Melo trade. Get some quicker speed and more energy out there around KP/Willy.
agreed. Im not making excuse for IP/willy defensive struggles but its pretty evident with Rose not out there they arent put into too many bad situationa. Also baker and randle keep the ball moving and hits KP quicker which turne into better scoring chances
I agree. Our perimeter defense was abysmal and if we upgrade that by better guards in the draft this year it will go a long way towards not needing KP and Billy to overcompensate for that. But they'll probably still get wasted on defense on some games by stronger faster frontcourts. Some of this has to come over time as they gain more strength and NBA experience.
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Knicks are terrible defensively but you have to wonder, if you are starting KP and Willy together, but have Thomas at the 3, Lee at the 2, and draft Fox, who projects as an elite defender, we would be a significantly improved team on the defensive end right? Add to that improved ball movement, and that team would be fun to watch.
I'd sort of rather draft Josh Jackson and have a defensive stud at the 3/4, so you can go small and be great on D and go big and be great on D.
But I agree with what you're saying - De'Aaron Fox is my 2nd most coveted in the draft behind JJ
Right. I'm under the assumption that Jackson goes top 3 and we are drafting 5-6 range. But if we have the opportunity, great. Then rivers becomes starting PG in a Melo trade.
Hey, we're 4th right now. That gives us a pretty good chance to move into the top three.
I always operate under the assumption we will go on an unnecessary run at the end of the season haha.
That usually what happens....When you have hungry bench players looking to earn Melo and Rose money. If we want to tank, we need to continue playing Melo and Rose.
meloshouldgo wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Defensively is where the concern is more, but I thought when we had 3 guards/smalls out there yesterday, as in a smaller quicker 3/2 combo with Lee/Sasha or Lee/Holiday, or Sasha/Holiday, we played better defense around KP/Willy.Why? Because Lee is actually not slow at 3, and Sasha always brings energy. The key to being a good defensive team around KP/Willy, is to have quick smalls around them. May be a good game for Phil to see that he needs to play smaller around the two bigs. Also O'Quinn is a much better defender inside than Willy. O'Quinn/KP also have nice chemistry. I think the way to go with Noah, O'Quinn, Willy and KP all on the roster is to make sure you play smaller at 3/2 the wings. Your wings have to be fast, defensive minded and able to move their feet in a way that the team doesn't stall or look clumsy or too big. May want to move Lee/Holiday to 3 full time, find a new starting 2 in free agency or draft or Melo trade. Get some quicker speed and more energy out there around KP/Willy.
agreed. Im not making excuse for IP/willy defensive struggles but its pretty evident with Rose not out there they arent put into too many bad situationa. Also baker and randle keep the ball moving and hits KP quicker which turne into better scoring chances
I agree. Our perimeter defense was abysmal and if we upgrade that by better guards in the draft this year it will go a long way towards not needing KP and Billy to overcompensate for that. But they'll probably still get wasted on defense on some games by stronger faster frontcourts. Some of this has to come over time as they gain more strength and NBA experience.
absolutely. Look nobody is saying they wont have a rough time on some nights but its quite obvious that Rose definetly made it harder on them
blkexec wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Knicks are terrible defensively but you have to wonder, if you are starting KP and Willy together, but have Thomas at the 3, Lee at the 2, and draft Fox, who projects as an elite defender, we would be a significantly improved team on the defensive end right? Add to that improved ball movement, and that team would be fun to watch.
I'd sort of rather draft Josh Jackson and have a defensive stud at the 3/4, so you can go small and be great on D and go big and be great on D.
But I agree with what you're saying - De'Aaron Fox is my 2nd most coveted in the draft behind JJ
Right. I'm under the assumption that Jackson goes top 3 and we are drafting 5-6 range. But if we have the opportunity, great. Then rivers becomes starting PG in a Melo trade.
Hey, we're 4th right now. That gives us a pretty good chance to move into the top three.
I always operate under the assumption we will go on an unnecessary run at the end of the season haha.
That usually what happens....When you have hungry bench players looking to earn Melo and Rose money. If we want to tank, we need to continue playing Melo and Rose.
Yes we do, sure they are good enough to pull in an odd victory against the dregs of the NBA, but our chances of losing are far higher with natural born losers on the court.
Willy and KP may not be the next Gasol and Dirk but they are at worst good building blocks. Both players respond well to bigger roles and play within the system well. Neither holds the ball too long although both can create a shot in isolation. They need to keep working hard and together. I like Lee/Holiday at the 3. If we draft Monk at 2, maybe trade Melo for Austin Rivers/JJ Redick (sign and trade) ... this team for next year ain't too bad
Willy/Noah/OQuinn
KP/Thomas/2nd round pick
Lee/Holiday/Kuz
Redick/Monk/Sasha
Rivers/Baker/Randle
And we would be quite under the cap to make more moves during the season or later in the offseason. If the team plays really well together competes KP/Willy/Malik develop more etc we may push .500 ball. If not? We are under the cap in 2018 by ALOT and we also would have another lottery pick to add to KP, Willy and Monk.
This is assuming we can not draft Ball, Fultz, Jackson or Fox who I think will go top 4.
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:Teams were adversarial in nature back in the day...So there needed to be that guy who kept them focused in battle..It's a lot different these days...Guys are buddy buddy with each other...I'm not sure how much of a role that plays in today's game...The good players have a yearning to win, that's good enough today...Guys are resting taking games off..There isn't a drive to win every game they way it used to be...
agreed. I know we dont tend to see eye to eye alot but you are absolutely right. I miss the old days. It was a much tougher league and guys hated losing to eachother and were adversaries. I loved watching knicks/pacers or knicks/heat or knick/bulls in the 90s because they wanted to beat the hell out of eachother. Now everybody is best friends it seems
This post may need framing..We Agree!!!
ive actually agreed with you on many things in the past. I just thought you didnt like me for some reason
Holfresh doesn't like anyone! 
I'm just teasing. But he will argue with anyone here.
