Willy might be worth a nice return in a trade. If the roster is crowded at one position, we can perhaps trade for what we lack.
What do starting centers, 22 years old fetch these days with upside?
Nalod wrote:Willy might be worth a nice return in a trade. If the roster is crowded at one position, we can perhaps trade for what we lack.
What do starting centers, 22 years old fetch these days with upside?
Trade? Willy is a building block. The kid has amazing skills, soft touch, great footwork...he's the full package and only going to get better with experience, reps, and a stud wing or PG who knows how to play in a team concept. Cannot wait for the draft and next year.
stanleybostitch wrote:Nalod wrote:Willy might be worth a nice return in a trade. If the roster is crowded at one position, we can perhaps trade for what we lack.
What do starting centers, 22 years old fetch these days with upside?
Trade? Willy is a building block. The kid has amazing skills, soft touch, great footwork...he's the full package and only going to get better with experience, reps, and a stud wing or PG who knows how to play in a team concept. Cannot wait for the draft and next year.
Willy shouldn't be traded, if not for his ability, because he and KP are really close and we need to start building chemistry with our young players. Having players who are close friends is important for building a cohesive group.
Knixkik wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:Nalod wrote:Willy might be worth a nice return in a trade. If the roster is crowded at one position, we can perhaps trade for what we lack.
What do starting centers, 22 years old fetch these days with upside?
Trade? Willy is a building block. The kid has amazing skills, soft touch, great footwork...he's the full package and only going to get better with experience, reps, and a stud wing or PG who knows how to play in a team concept. Cannot wait for the draft and next year.
Willy shouldn't be traded, if not for his ability, because he and KP are really close and we need to start building chemistry with our young players. Having players who are close friends is important for building a cohesive group.
We don't have to trade young talent to improve the roster. We have 3 picks and some cap space so there's no need to trade youth. Now VETS that's a different story.
No way you trade Willy. Has chemistry with KP and plays the 5 fundamentally better than anyone else on the team. Problem will be what to do with the 19M starter and KP at 4. If anything, time to trade KO for a a draft pick or estabilised player to fill voids at 1 and 2.
yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:That's his opinion but right now my answer would be no. However, I think you build with them but I am not sold on them being the focal point of a team. You can't run an offense through them and neither one can stabilise a defense so how can you build around them?
All of your comments seem premature! You are talking about two very young bigs. One of which is a rookie. So while they may not yet have the ability to anchor a winning team they have shown flashes of the talent needed to develop into legit starters for this team.
Also will help to upgrade the defensive talent around them. This is a process that needs time. Also this doesn't preclude the Knicks from looking to upgrade at PF/C if there is a better young player available. I think you never stop looking to upgrade your team.
So It's premature to not be sure but it's not premature to already be certain of two players who have not done the things people think they can do?
That doesn't make any sense.
What I'm trying to say is that there's going to be natural development and growth from these kids. They've shown enough flashes to have faith they can develop some consistent play as bigs for this team. It's not like they never look good. They just have mental lapses and need to get stronger.
Those are things that should be fixable.
nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:That's his opinion but right now my answer would be no. However, I think you build with them but I am not sold on them being the focal point of a team. You can't run an offense through them and neither one can stabilise a defense so how can you build around them?
All of your comments seem premature! You are talking about two very young bigs. One of which is a rookie. So while they may not yet have the ability to anchor a winning team they have shown flashes of the talent needed to develop into legit starters for this team.
Also will help to upgrade the defensive talent around them. This is a process that needs time. Also this doesn't preclude the Knicks from looking to upgrade at PF/C if there is a better young player available. I think you never stop looking to upgrade your team.
So It's premature to not be sure but it's not premature to already be certain of two players who have not done the things people think they can do?
That doesn't make any sense.
What I'm trying to say is that there's going to be natural development and growth from these kids. They've shown enough flashes to have faith they can develop some consistent play as bigs for this team. It's not like they never look good. They just have mental lapses and need to get stronger.
Those are things that should be fixable.
Of course they have shown flashes of being quality starters but they have not proven or shown much more than that. No one said they should be traded or will not get better but I would not look to build my team as if I had someone who can carry my team so all I need is secondary pieces. The Knicks need to look for an efficient high usage players who shares the bball.
These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:That's his opinion but right now my answer would be no. However, I think you build with them but I am not sold on them being the focal point of a team. You can't run an offense through them and neither one can stabilise a defense so how can you build around them?
All of your comments seem premature! You are talking about two very young bigs. One of which is a rookie. So while they may not yet have the ability to anchor a winning team they have shown flashes of the talent needed to develop into legit starters for this team.
Also will help to upgrade the defensive talent around them. This is a process that needs time. Also this doesn't preclude the Knicks from looking to upgrade at PF/C if there is a better young player available. I think you never stop looking to upgrade your team.
So It's premature to not be sure but it's not premature to already be certain of two players who have not done the things people think they can do?
That doesn't make any sense.
What I'm trying to say is that there's going to be natural development and growth from these kids. They've shown enough flashes to have faith they can develop some consistent play as bigs for this team. It's not like they never look good. They just have mental lapses and need to get stronger.
Those are things that should be fixable.
Of course they have shown flashes of being quality starters but they have not proven or shown much more than that. No one said they should be traded or will not get better but I would not look to build my team as if I had someone who can carry my team so all I need is secondary pieces. The Knicks need to look for an efficient high usage players who shares the bball.
It's kind of hard to really show much when Willy just got here and has just 13 starts in his career! Of course Bigs ALWAYS need a PG or some kind of Playmaker/Distributor in order to be at their best. What I do believe is that before long BOTH KP and Willy will be able to take just about anyone in a One on One situation and as soon as they get the hang of NBA defense and get a bit stronger they will be LOCKS to man the inside for this team.
How much more growth they need and how soon that will come is hard to tell but I can see already that they have enough actual talent to get there. It's only a matter of time and work before they are good enough to lock that down. Much of the problem isn't a lack of talent but simply Mental Mistakes and just maturing and getting stronger. Those aren't things you can't address.
The good thing about this draft is that there are so many Guards and Wings that we can add who can be significant upgrades to the roster.
knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
I TOTALLY disagree. I see two kids that want to get better and that have no real limitations to getting better. They have the talent and desire to be very good players. They want it!!! Now knowing how to actually get there is the key. They both are studious and open to being coached and tutored. You can bet they'll work hard this summer and come back even better.
knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
stanleybostitch wrote:knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
When i talk mental make up, it has nothing to do with talent. Just like melo and rose, these dudes are not leaders, they dont have that KG, Alonzo, LJ, Ewing, leadership attributes. The worst part about it all, they are being develop in a toxic, losing environment, so they are developing losing habits. You can see how they continue to make the same mistakes almost every other possession, let alone game.
We still have to find that leader, that guy who's going to come in an not except losing, that guy who is going to be vocal and push, and get on you when you fail an assignment, be a on court coach. That guy doesn't even have to be the most talent player, he just needs to have that fire. Your going to still need your kp, your aldridge, your Love, melo, and rose. you just can't ask those players to be leaders, because thats not their mental make up, you need other players in that role
knicks1248 wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
When i talk mental make up, it has nothing to do with talent. Just like melo and rose, these dudes are not leaders, they dont have that KG, Alonzo, LJ, Ewing, leadership attributes. The worst part about it all, they are being develop in a toxic, losing environment, so they are developing losing habits. You can see how they continue to make the same mistakes almost every other possession, let alone game.
We still have to find that leader, that guy who's going to come in an not except losing, that guy who is going to be vocal and push, and get on you when you fail an assignment, be a on court coach. That guy doesn't even have to be the most talent player, he just needs to have that fire. Your going to still need your kp, your aldridge, your Love, melo, and rose. you just can't ask those players to be leaders, because thats not their mental make up, you need other players in that role
That man, his name is Joakim Noah.
knicks1248 wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
When i talk mental make up, it has nothing to do with talent. Just like melo and rose, these dudes are not leaders, they dont have that KG, Alonzo, LJ, Ewing, leadership attributes. The worst part about it all, they are being develop in a toxic, losing environment, so they are developing losing habits. You can see how they continue to make the same mistakes almost every other possession, let alone game.
We still have to find that leader, that guy who's going to come in an not except losing, that guy who is going to be vocal and push, and get on you when you fail an assignment, be a on court coach. That guy doesn't even have to be the most talent player, he just needs to have that fire. Your going to still need your kp, your aldridge, your Love, melo, and rose. you just can't ask those players to be leaders, because thats not their mental make up, you need other players in that role
Myth..Who is the leader on GS...Who is the leader on SA..Myth...
knicks1248 wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
When i talk mental make up, it has nothing to do with talent. Just like melo and rose, these dudes are not leaders, they dont have that KG, Alonzo, LJ, Ewing, leadership attributes. The worst part about it all, they are being develop in a toxic, losing environment, so they are developing losing habits. You can see how they continue to make the same mistakes almost every other possession, let alone game.
We still have to find that leader, that guy who's going to come in an not except losing, that guy who is going to be vocal and push, and get on you when you fail an assignment, be a on court coach. That guy doesn't even have to be the most talent player, he just needs to have that fire. Your going to still need your kp, your aldridge, your Love, melo, and rose. you just can't ask those players to be leaders, because thats not their mental make up, you need other players in that role
Myth..Who is the leader on GS...Draymond Green is an idiot..Who is the leader on SA..Myth...
holfresh wrote:knicks1248 wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
When i talk mental make up, it has nothing to do with talent. Just like melo and rose, these dudes are not leaders, they dont have that KG, Alonzo, LJ, Ewing, leadership attributes. The worst part about it all, they are being develop in a toxic, losing environment, so they are developing losing habits. You can see how they continue to make the same mistakes almost every other possession, let alone game.
We still have to find that leader, that guy who's going to come in an not except losing, that guy who is going to be vocal and push, and get on you when you fail an assignment, be a on court coach. That guy doesn't even have to be the most talent player, he just needs to have that fire. Your going to still need your kp, your aldridge, your Love, melo, and rose. you just can't ask those players to be leaders, because thats not their mental make up, you need other players in that role
Myth..Who is the leader on GS...Draymond Green is an idiot..Who is the leader on SA..Myth...
Iggy was the man who glued GSW together Three years ago. Mark Jax had not helped the enironment. When he left, it came together.
Spurs, its the prosess of Pop and many role players, and floor leaders who keep it going. The culture has promoted itself.
Knicks, its been Amare's bravado, and melo's empty promises. Talent is one thing, leadership is another.
Seems like Noah and Hernangomez have some chemistry.
Nalod wrote:holfresh wrote:knicks1248 wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
When i talk mental make up, it has nothing to do with talent. Just like melo and rose, these dudes are not leaders, they dont have that KG, Alonzo, LJ, Ewing, leadership attributes. The worst part about it all, they are being develop in a toxic, losing environment, so they are developing losing habits. You can see how they continue to make the same mistakes almost every other possession, let alone game.
We still have to find that leader, that guy who's going to come in an not except losing, that guy who is going to be vocal and push, and get on you when you fail an assignment, be a on court coach. That guy doesn't even have to be the most talent player, he just needs to have that fire. Your going to still need your kp, your aldridge, your Love, melo, and rose. you just can't ask those players to be leaders, because thats not their mental make up, you need other players in that role
Myth..Who is the leader on GS...Draymond Green is an idiot..Who is the leader on SA..Myth...
Iggy was the man who glued GSW together Three years ago. Mark Jax had not helped the enironment. When he left, it came together.
Spurs, its the prosess of Pop and many role players, and floor leaders who keep it going. The culture has promoted itself.
Knicks, its been Amare's bravado, and melo's empty promises. Talent is one thing, leadership is another.
Seems like Noah and Hernangomez have some chemistry.
?????????????..They were pissed when he was fired..They used to go to church regularly with him...Mark didn't lay cover for his gay owner when he preached...Doesn't make him a bad guy...Like Mark would put it, Just fire him but leave him with his good name...
I was never moved with the leadership thing unless it was real..MJ, Bird and Magic were leaders, these characters, no..NOah??...He pounds his chest after a layup..Come on, leadership???
Teams were adversarial in nature back in the day...So there needed to be that guy who kept them focused in battle..It's a lot different these days...Guys are buddy buddy with each other...I'm not sure how much of a role that plays in today's game...The good players have a yearning to win, that's good enough today...Guys are resting taking games off..There isn't a drive to win every game they way it used to be...
holfresh wrote:Teams were adversarial in nature back in the day...So there needed to be that guy who kept them focused in battle..It's a lot different these days...Guys are buddy buddy with each other...I'm not sure how much of a role that plays in today's game...The good players have a yearning to win, that's good enough today...Guys are resting taking games off..There isn't a drive to win every game they way it used to be...
agreed. I know we dont tend to see eye to eye alot but you are absolutely right. I miss the old days. It was a much tougher league and guys hated losing to eachother and were adversaries. I loved watching knicks/pacers or knicks/heat or knick/bulls in the 90s because they wanted to beat the hell out of eachother. Now everybody is best friends it seems
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:Teams were adversarial in nature back in the day...So there needed to be that guy who kept them focused in battle..It's a lot different these days...Guys are buddy buddy with each other...I'm not sure how much of a role that plays in today's game...The good players have a yearning to win, that's good enough today...Guys are resting taking games off..There isn't a drive to win every game they way it used to be...
agreed. I know we dont tend to see eye to eye alot but you are absolutely right. I miss the old days. It was a much tougher league and guys hated losing to eachother and were adversaries. I loved watching knicks/pacers or knicks/heat or knick/bulls in the 90s because they wanted to beat the hell out of eachother. Now everybody is best friends it seems
This post may need framing..We Agree!!!
holfresh wrote:knicks1248 wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:knicks1248 wrote:These 2 guys do not have them mental make up to be the heart and soul of a team, there just solid pieces to a deep team.
Crazy. And who has this magical mental makeup? Melo? C'mon 1248, let's hear some Melo apologetics...
When i talk mental make up, it has nothing to do with talent. Just like melo and rose, these dudes are not leaders, they dont have that KG, Alonzo, LJ, Ewing, leadership attributes. The worst part about it all, they are being develop in a toxic, losing environment, so they are developing losing habits. You can see how they continue to make the same mistakes almost every other possession, let alone game.
We still have to find that leader, that guy who's going to come in an not except losing, that guy who is going to be vocal and push, and get on you when you fail an assignment, be a on court coach. That guy doesn't even have to be the most talent player, he just needs to have that fire. Your going to still need your kp, your aldridge, your Love, melo, and rose. you just can't ask those players to be leaders, because thats not their mental make up, you need other players in that role
Myth..Who is the leader on GS...Draymond Green is an idiot..Who is the leader on SA..Myth...
DRAYMOND is a glue guy, energy guy, and big mouth guy, dirty work guy. lets not include SA in any of our comparisons. That franchise is A1, from top to bottom, their players are in the right roles across the board and they win, so development is quicker, smarter, and consistent.
Next yr KP and Will might be playing with whole different roster, more growing pains, when phil is gone in a yr or 2, whole new system, with probably another roster flip
