So if KP is so bad and Horny is such a bad coach then:
what about KAT who has Thibs
Wiggins is in prime and even better defender than Melo
Rubio is real PG vs Rose
Yet KAT a better player than KP (no question) has won ONE more game than KP
Why is KAT getting a pass and seen as a marvel?
Fact is KAT is a better player than KP and yet his team which is younger and just as talented as ours (probably more talent) has one game more
The issue is not KP. Those that think NYs problems are KP are down right idiots. Sorry Martin, but this place is filled with some instant gratification peons.
Again KAT and Thibs 28 wins
KP and Horny 27 wins
But KP is the problem according to some guys .....
Thibs is a proven better coach than Horny (I'm being straight he is)
Wiggins and Rubio are better or as good as Melo and Rose
KAT is better than KP
Yet 28 wins vs 27 wins
KP is not the problem in NY. He's a great young talent still developing
Can't believe the idiocy in this fan base.
No one is saying KP is so bad. What Im personally saying is that he needs a bunch of work both on game(maybe to simplify it a bit and learn what a pass is) and physically he is no where close yet
BRIGGS wrote:No one is saying KP is so bad. What Im personally saying is that he needs a bunch of work both on game(maybe to simplify it a bit and learn what a pass is) and physically he is no where close yet
No you're not saying that bro, you're saying that in response to this fact being shown.
If you said what you just posted I'd agree with you and respect it.
No offence, most of your posts come across as whining and player bashing than actual criticism
Towns is a better offensive player, but KP is more effected on defense at this stage. He is a true rim protector, Towns is not. Towns is better overall, he's the best prospect since Anthony Davis, but KP is certainly in the same category. But the ones making threads complaining about KP, would be even more concerned with Towns defensive struggles.
Minny's point differential is -0.6 which means they lost a lot of close games..They need more defensive players playing critical minutes..They also play in the West which is more difficult than the East..Two teams with -1.0 differential in the East have winning records and are above .500...Knicks differential is -3.6..So you are comparing apples and oranges..
But no one is saying KP is bad..You can't just look at one side of the ball and think you have the answers to winning..
Wolves were projected as a 2nd round playoff team. Wiggins going into his 3rd year was supposed to take that leap and Towns building off his rookie of the year freshman season was supposed to from that Kobe-Shaq like tandem. Then you can add in Lavine who provided a 3rd option. Rubio a pure PG who plays defense and a top 5 lotto pick in Dunn.
They should at least be on par with the Jazz right now. Or best case competing with Spurs but losing out due to experience. Wiggins has turned into only a high usage scorer. I thought Thibbs would turn them into a beast defensive team with Wiggins and Towns given there talent and physical traits.
With that said maybe everything clicks for them next year. Wiggins needs to step up though.
holfresh wrote:Minny's point differential is -0.6 which means they lost a lot of close games..They need more defensive players playing critical minutes..They also play in the West which is more difficult than the East..Two teams with -1.0 differential in the East have winning records and are above .500...Knicks differential is -3.6..So you are comparing apples and oranges..
But no one is saying KP is bad..You can't just look at one side of the ball and think you have the answers to winning..
But KP is rated top 5/elite in rim protection, averages over 2 blocks a game. He does something on D, which is much more than to say for others on the team. The entire team is made up of bad defenders. Outside of Lance Thomas, Ron Baker, Justin Holiday, I can't say anyone has shown me good man D. I'll also add Sasha, he has shown in the little minutes he gets he can defend or be a pesky defender. The rest of our team - Melo, Rose, KP, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuz, Jennings (when he was with us) - none of those guys have shown good man D this year.
I can't say it's really fair to rip KP's defense alone, when the entire team plays pretty bad defense. We are talking man defense here. not help defense, which KP is very good at.
I definitely am frustrated with KP's stupid fouls. Nothing kills his game more than that. He becomes soft and passive as a defender when he's in foul trouble. He has to find a way to defend without fouling. He also needs to focus on defending a position. The Knicks have been shifting him to starting 5 and 4 and they need to pick a spot for him to master it defensively. If he's a 5, he needs to work on adding some muscle (not too much) and working on holding post position. If he's a starting 4, then they need to get him to work on how to use his feet on the perimeter better and cut off angles.
Its a work in progress. I don't think he's ready to lead a team to the playoffs but if Melo gets traded in the summer, KP is our defacto best player and even if the team sucks, he will need to lead it.
look at giannis...the last time kp and giannis met...if i remember the bucks had the same or worse record.
newyorknewyork wrote:Wolves were projected as a 2nd round playoff team. Wiggins going into his 3rd year was supposed to take that leap and Towns building off his rookie of the year freshman season was supposed to from that Kobe-Shaq like tandem. Then you can add in Lavine who provided a 3rd option. Rubio a pure PG who plays defense and a top 5 lotto pick in Dunn. They should at least be on par with the Jazz right now. Or best case competing with Spurs but losing out due to experience. Wiggins has turned into only a high usage scorer. I thought Thibbs would turn them into a beast defensive team with Wiggins and Towns given there talent and physical traits.
With that said maybe everything clicks for them next year. Wiggins needs to step up though.
Defense..The Jaz have defensive players..OKC became a force when Ibaka, Robertson, and Adams stepped up defensively..Bulls had Noah, Deng, and Gibson step up defensively..Projecting a team based of offense alone is useless..Tho offense is important..
Cartman718 wrote:look at giannis...the last time kp and giannis met...if i remember the bucks had the same or worse record.
Sure.
Giannias in his 2nd year
31.4 minutes
12.5 points
2.6 assists
1.0 blocks
0.9 steals
16% three point shooting
KP in his 2nd year
32.7 minutes
18.1 points
1.4 assists
2.0 blocks
0.7 steals
37% three point shooting
KP's ahead of GA in his second year and I'm a HUGE fan of GA. GA, KAT, and Anthony Davis are perhaps the only 3 forwards in the game I consider a trade KP for. But KP's even ahead of Greek freak at the same time in their careers. GA made a huge jump the last 2 seasons.
Give it time. I don't think KP is a soft worker. He will improve. Hard workers almost always improve exponentionally in the NBA. Interesting to see where he will be in 2 years, with 4 years in the league under his belt.
First - KP is still growing, he need 2-3 years to mature
Second - basketball is team sport, best team wins not a best player
I love KP but Towns numbers are so impressive. Towns has 53 double doubles. Unreal. A ton of young talent in the nba right now.
holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Wolves were projected as a 2nd round playoff team. Wiggins going into his 3rd year was supposed to take that leap and Towns building off his rookie of the year freshman season was supposed to from that Kobe-Shaq like tandem. Then you can add in Lavine who provided a 3rd option. Rubio a pure PG who plays defense and a top 5 lotto pick in Dunn. They should at least be on par with the Jazz right now. Or best case competing with Spurs but losing out due to experience. Wiggins has turned into only a high usage scorer. I thought Thibbs would turn them into a beast defensive team with Wiggins and Towns given there talent and physical traits.
With that said maybe everything clicks for them next year. Wiggins needs to step up though.
Defense..The Jaz have defensive players..OKC became a force when Ibaka, Robertson, and Adams stepped up defensively..Bulls had Noah, Deng, and Gibson step up defensively..Projecting a team based of offense alone is useless..Tho offense is important..
Defense was apart of the projection and was the main reason. Wiggins was believed to have major defensive stopper potential. Towns has major defendive anchor potential. Thibbs a defense minded head coach. Plus they have Deing who I forgot about.
newyorknewyork wrote:holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Wolves were projected as a 2nd round playoff team. Wiggins going into his 3rd year was supposed to take that leap and Towns building off his rookie of the year freshman season was supposed to from that Kobe-Shaq like tandem. Then you can add in Lavine who provided a 3rd option. Rubio a pure PG who plays defense and a top 5 lotto pick in Dunn. They should at least be on par with the Jazz right now. Or best case competing with Spurs but losing out due to experience. Wiggins has turned into only a high usage scorer. I thought Thibbs would turn them into a beast defensive team with Wiggins and Towns given there talent and physical traits.
With that said maybe everything clicks for them next year. Wiggins needs to step up though.
Defense..The Jaz have defensive players..OKC became a force when Ibaka, Robertson, and Adams stepped up defensively..Bulls had Noah, Deng, and Gibson step up defensively..Projecting a team based of offense alone is useless..Tho offense is important..
Defense was apart of the projection and was the main reason. Wiggins was believed to have major defensive stopper potential. Towns has major defendive anchor potential. Thibbs a defense minded head coach. Plus they have Deing who I forgot about.
When I see Wiggins and KAT..Defense isn't the first thing that comes to mind..Shaq and Kobe is in another stratosphere
Knixkik wrote:Towns is a better offensive player, but KP is more effected on defense at this stage. He is a true rim protector, Towns is not. Towns is better overall, he's the best prospect since Anthony Davis, but KP is certainly in the same category. But the ones making threads complaining about KP, would be even more concerned with Towns defensive struggles.
I think Towns is actually better on both ends by the numbers. But Towns is better Center than he is a PF, KP is a better PF than he is a Center (again by the numbers)
KP6 holds opposing PFs to 17.7 pts PER48 http://www.82games.com/1617/16NYK12.HTM
KAT holds opposing PFs to 11.7 pts PER48 http://www.82games.com/1617/16MIN14.HTM
Towns is definitely better.
meloshouldgo wrote:Knixkik wrote:Towns is a better offensive player, but KP is more effected on defense at this stage. He is a true rim protector, Towns is not. Towns is better overall, he's the best prospect since Anthony Davis, but KP is certainly in the same category. But the ones making threads complaining about KP, would be even more concerned with Towns defensive struggles.
I think Towns is actually better on both ends by the numbers. But Towns is better Center than he is a PF, KP is a better PF than he is a Center (again by the numbers)
KP6 holds opposing PFs to 17.7 pts PER48 http://www.82games.com/1617/16NYK12.HTM
KAT holds opposing PFs to 11.7 pts PER48 http://www.82games.com/1617/16MIN14.HTM
Towns is definitely better.
There's a lot of different ways to look at it. KP's defensive numbers will improve when he moves to center full-time. For now, he still has elite rim protection numbers to fall back on. His DFG% was 2nd to Gobert last i checked. Towns struggles both man to man and as a rim protector. But neither is a good defender. But most would agree KP has better defensive potential.
No offense but youth does not make Wiggins a good defender or a better defender than Melo. Wiggins is a pretty terrible player so far in his career in both sides of the ball.
holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Wolves were projected as a 2nd round playoff team. Wiggins going into his 3rd year was supposed to take that leap and Towns building off his rookie of the year freshman season was supposed to from that Kobe-Shaq like tandem. Then you can add in Lavine who provided a 3rd option. Rubio a pure PG who plays defense and a top 5 lotto pick in Dunn. They should at least be on par with the Jazz right now. Or best case competing with Spurs but losing out due to experience. Wiggins has turned into only a high usage scorer. I thought Thibbs would turn them into a beast defensive team with Wiggins and Towns given there talent and physical traits.
With that said maybe everything clicks for them next year. Wiggins needs to step up though.
Defense..The Jaz have defensive players..OKC became a force when Ibaka, Robertson, and Adams stepped up defensively..Bulls had Noah, Deng, and Gibson step up defensively..Projecting a team based of offense alone is useless..Tho offense is important..
Defense was apart of the projection and was the main reason. Wiggins was believed to have major defensive stopper potential. Towns has major defendive anchor potential. Thibbs a defense minded head coach. Plus they have Deing who I forgot about.
When I see Wiggins and KAT..Defense isn't the first thing that comes to mind..Shaq and Kobe is in another stratosphere
They bother were #1 picks based off their talent skill and atheltism. This is Wiggins 3rd year and Towns 2nd. They are both impressionable players who Thibbs should have been able to mold to his liking. Which I assumed would be defense. Shaq and Kobe is more of a reference towards dynamic duos big & wing. Didn't really believe they would be Shaq and Kobe level.
newyorknewyork wrote:holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Wolves were projected as a 2nd round playoff team. Wiggins going into his 3rd year was supposed to take that leap and Towns building off his rookie of the year freshman season was supposed to from that Kobe-Shaq like tandem. Then you can add in Lavine who provided a 3rd option. Rubio a pure PG who plays defense and a top 5 lotto pick in Dunn. They should at least be on par with the Jazz right now. Or best case competing with Spurs but losing out due to experience. Wiggins has turned into only a high usage scorer. I thought Thibbs would turn them into a beast defensive team with Wiggins and Towns given there talent and physical traits.
With that said maybe everything clicks for them next year. Wiggins needs to step up though.
Defense..The Jaz have defensive players..OKC became a force when Ibaka, Robertson, and Adams stepped up defensively..Bulls had Noah, Deng, and Gibson step up defensively..Projecting a team based of offense alone is useless..Tho offense is important..
Defense was apart of the projection and was the main reason. Wiggins was believed to have major defensive stopper potential. Towns has major defendive anchor potential. Thibbs a defense minded head coach. Plus they have Deing who I forgot about.
When I see Wiggins and KAT..Defense isn't the first thing that comes to mind..Shaq and Kobe is in another stratosphere
They bother were #1 picks based off their talent skill and atheltism. This is Wiggins 3rd year and Towns 2nd. They are both impressionable players who Thibbs should have been able to mold to his liking. Which I assumed would be defense. Shaq and Kobe is more of a reference towards dynamic duos big & wing. Didn't really believe they would be Shaq and Kobe level.
I have argued this point many times..Becuase a guy can score and put up numbers doesn't make him a winner..Melo has always impressed me because with the right defensive pieces around him, he knew how to win games..KLove couldn't do that in his prime..KAT and Wiggins have to,prove they have what it takes to win..Shooting threes doesn't make you a winner..
All the problems starts with comparing, but every man/player have a different way to success(Obama finished at 55, Trump starts at 70:))
KP needs 2-3 years to put it all together, it could be one game when he turns that corner to superstar level
