Phil shouldn't have traded Lopez.
BRIGGS wrote:Without Rose and Melo# we suck
Hahaha. Amen. I was going to say the same thing. Amazing how people will scapegoat the stars. Without Rose and Melo could this team even get to the second round of the NCAA tournament? This is a young team, not trying to slag the rookies. But damn. There is not a lot of NBA talent after Rose and Melo on this squad.
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Without Rose and Melo# we suck
Hahaha. Amen. I was going to say the same thing. Amazing how people will scapegoat the stars. Without Rose and Melo could this team even get to the second round of the NCAA tournament? This is a young team, not trying to slag the rookies. But damn. There is not a lot of NBA talent after Rose and Melo on this squad.
Without Rose and melo we'd win 15 games Maybe
BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Without Rose and Melo# we suck
Hahaha. Amen. I was going to say the same thing. Amazing how people will scapegoat the stars. Without Rose and Melo could this team even get to the second round of the NCAA tournament? This is a young team, not trying to slag the rookies. But damn. There is not a lot of NBA talent after Rose and Melo on this squad.
Without Rose and melo we'd win 15 games Maybe
I actually just said the same thing in the game thread. I agree.
If we let Rose go for nothing and trade Melo for Austin Rivers... well, at least we'll get a top three pick in 2018.
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Without Rose and Melo# we suck
Hahaha. Amen. I was going to say the same thing. Amazing how people will scapegoat the stars. Without Rose and Melo could this team even get to the second round of the NCAA tournament? This is a young team, not trying to slag the rookies. But damn. There is not a lot of NBA talent after Rose and Melo on this squad.
Without Rose and melo we'd win 15 games Maybe
I actually just said the same thing in the game thread. I agree.
If we let Rose go for nothing and trade Melo for Austin Rivers... well, at least we'll get a top three pick in 2018.
We need a good draft this year. Hope we low every game and get atleast top 5. WE need it
BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Without Rose and Melo# we suck
Hahaha. Amen. I was going to say the same thing. Amazing how people will scapegoat the stars. Without Rose and Melo could this team even get to the second round of the NCAA tournament? This is a young team, not trying to slag the rookies. But damn. There is not a lot of NBA talent after Rose and Melo on this squad.
Without Rose and melo we'd win 15 games Maybe
I actually just said the same thing in the game thread. I agree.
If we let Rose go for nothing and trade Melo for Austin Rivers... well, at least we'll get a top three pick in 2018.
We need a good draft this year. Hope we low every game and get atleast top 5. WE need it
Yeah, we really need a top three pick. This team needs Lonzo Ball or Josh Jackson in the worst way. We need a true blue chip guy. Hopefully we lose out the rest of the way.
But we're completely outmatched talent wise and on offense at guard without Rose. We need a point bad.
nyknickzingis wrote:It actually is ...
KOQ is miles ahead of Willy on D right now.
crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:It actually is ...
KOQ is miles ahead of Willy on D right now.
No doubt
That's why you need vets like Thomas OQuinn and Lee
But really where we are overwhelmed without Rose/Melo is at point.
I saw nothing tonight that makes me believe this team needs Melo at 25, 27 M a year.
nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:It actually is ...
KOQ is miles ahead of Willy on D right now.
No doubt
That's why you need vets like Thomas OQuinn and Lee
But really where we are overwhelmed without Rose/Melo is at point.
I saw nothing tonight that makes me believe this team needs Melo at 25, 27 M a year.
It doesn't make much sense to keep Melo... but make no mistake, this will not be pretty. Do you remember the 2014-5 season? It'll be a lot like that. That team played hard once Melo went down... but they were overmatched talent-wise almost every night. It'll be the same thing.
crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:It actually is ...
KOQ is miles ahead of Willy on D right now.
No doubt
That's why you need vets like Thomas OQuinn and Lee
But really where we are overwhelmed without Rose/Melo is at point.
I saw nothing tonight that makes me believe this team needs Melo at 25, 27 M a year.
It doesn't make much sense to keep Melo... but make no mistake, this will not be pretty. Do you remember the 2014-5 season? It'll be a lot like that. That team played hard once Melo went down... but they were overmatched talent-wise almost every night. It'll be the same thing.
It's about the guard spot, That's where we get killed. Melo can hybrid between guard and forward, when the point isn't a strong attacking player like Rose. With no Rose and no Melo, no one at a high level can attack.
However, if you have someone at a high level at guard, the team will be competitive. We weren't beaten by the lack of Melo tonight. What this team needs if they want to trade Melo, is a point guard that can attack off the dribble and also create easy shots for teammates with passing. No good team is without such a player. We add a reliable shooter at 3, we'll be fine.
If you go back to all my posts on this subject, I kept saying keep Rose if you deal Melo. Because even a KP led team will need one point or guard that can attack a defense. I'm hoping we can do even better than Rose, but it won't be easy to find a player better than Rose.
At this point, I am fine with another lottery season. I do like that KP is not afraid to shoot the ball and create his own shot. You see it in his eyes in his play, He is ready to take on the challenge. He is unphased by missing lots of shots or having to create tough shots. Last year KP was not able to do this or have this kind of confidence. I think it will grow, and it will only grow if he has more nights like tonight where he's shooting 20 times a night.
What's the worst case? 15 wins you said? Guaranteed top 2 pick likely. So? Just add more young talent. I'm all in on this rebuild. No shortcuts. Lets do this. Growing pains, ugly ball and all.
I mean I rather win 20 games, develop young players, get a top 2 pick, let KP gain experience as being the man, Willy as being the main post up guy, if we draft a PG or guard in this draft then him getting reps and experience running the Triangle and the team. I much rather be in that boat, than the boat we were on this season which led to nowhere. Thankfully we underachieved so bad with Melo/Rose/KP that we still will get a great pick out of this (atleast in terms of where we will draft, the player being good is to be determined).
I'm not at all scared of the risk or potential of a 60 loss season. We lost 50 games last year. Will lose 50 this year. Lets develop the young talent we already have, lets bring in more via the draft and develop them. If we lose even more, so what? Better draft position in 2018. Now 2018 onward we need to start to make some inroads into the standings because you don't want young players to just always lose. But I am totally fine with 2 years of losing. This current stretch, and next whole year.
By 2018 - we could have a 50M$ in capspace, KP, 2017 and 2018 lottery picks (maybe top 5 or 6) and Willy. If that's not a good place to work with, I don't know what is. Just don't draft big in 2017+2018. Go for athletic, ballhandling wings/guards. That's what we need.
Do it Phil !!!!!
The one word on Knicks fans on their knowledge on how to build the winning pro team and how long it takes... Clueless..
arkrud wrote:The one word on Knicks fans on their knowledge on how to build the winning pro team and how long it takes... Clueless..
Sorry there are a bunch of people here from the 70-80s who certainly have seen the process. The Knicks fan is a battered sole-- they deserve better
crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:It actually is ...
KOQ is miles ahead of Willy on D right now.
No doubt
That's why you need vets like Thomas OQuinn and Lee
But really where we are overwhelmed without Rose/Melo is at point.
I saw nothing tonight that makes me believe this team needs Melo at 25, 27 M a year.
It doesn't make much sense to keep Melo... but make no mistake, this will not be pretty. Do you remember the 2014-5 season? It'll be a lot like that. That team played hard once Melo went down... but they were overmatched talent-wise almost every night. It'll be the same thing.
if thats the case fine. Let KP, Willy, and whoever else play hard and take their lumps. They didnt play hard last night. Last night was not a measuring stick. You could tell that group knew the plug had been pulled and they played like it. Thats human nature. They were deflated. It showed.
Its not about blaming Melo or Rose. They are singled out because they are the star players and the $25mm dollar men. Its just about franchise goals and how to achieve them. There is nothing about this destination right now that is attracting the kind of star talent we would need to really move the needle. Having Melo/Rose means the coach has to cater to them, especially if the rest of the roster is young talent or role players. There may be times or situations where that can work, but it doesnt seem to here.
Want to talk scapegoats? I dont have a problem with that being Phil either. The tank is on. I am confident we get a blue chip player in the draft. Draft seems to be one area this front office does well with. Next year's draft looks pretty darn good also as the crop of freshman looks to be pretty outstanding. If after 4-5 years Phil turns over a roster of flexible contracts and young talent like KP, Willy, DFox, another good pick next year... than you know what? You could be looking at a talent base that has the Knicks competing for another decade run. The garden becomes fun again, FAs come, we can add cheap high end vet talent like Cle and GS does, etc etc... Its the only way its going to happen. If we have learned anything in the last 15 years that is the only way its going to happen. I am 100% convinced of this.
So Phil's tweets, trading for Jose, thinking Rose might work... yea, not good but the big picture is still where I believe it needs to go.
BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Without Rose and Melo# we suck
Hahaha. Amen. I was going to say the same thing. Amazing how people will scapegoat the stars. Without Rose and Melo could this team even get to the second round of the NCAA tournament? This is a young team, not trying to slag the rookies. But damn. There is not a lot of NBA talent after Rose and Melo on this squad.
Without Rose and melo we'd win 15 games Maybe
I actually just said the same thing in the game thread. I agree.
If we let Rose go for nothing and trade Melo for Austin Rivers... well, at least we'll get a top three pick in 2018.
We need a good draft this year. Hope we low every game and get atleast top 5. WE need it
So why do you create nonsense threads when we lose?
Which way do you want it pal?
The thing is that with the right coach those "50/50" games where you are outmatched from a refined talent standpoint you win with effort and good coaching...what Eric Spolestra has done with the Heat, which is ok talent wise and Brad Stevens in Boston, with only a couple of pieces of refined talent(IT Guy,Horford,Bradley)....is amazing. Someone who I think will eventually follow in this vain is Kenny Atkinson of the Nets.....they had a dumpster fire of talent, but after they get through this rough patch...gets their picks back....Ithink they will climb up off the mat....
KP has all he talent in the world...I see all these other threads with people downing KP....given the environment and off court distractions over the past 2 years...it is a minor miracle that he has been able to continue with this dumpster fire. KP and Willy need the right point guard, we need a wing that can defend and it the three and is a playmaker. KP has to get stronger, but that will come in time...Another thread talked about R. Gobert destroying KP the other night....that was based on Gobert's years in the league and nuances that he has learned in the NBA aside from having a competent team as well...KP has the skillset to put Gobert on roller skates at 7-3, shoot over him and once he gains that "wiry KG strength" he will be a load....but as the team stand now, even with a top pick....and the triangle...no Rose or Melo......it will be tough...but if they are competitive like how Philly has been in recent mths....I will be ok with it watching the young guns come into learning the NBA together and being competitive...ALSO the absolute MUST is having a long range plan..which we do not...
BRIGGS wrote:arkrud wrote:The one word on Knicks fans on their knowledge on how to build the winning pro team and how long it takes... Clueless..
Sorry there are a bunch of people here from the 70-80s who certainly have seen the process. The Knicks fan is a battered sole-- they deserve better
Knicks need a sustainable core of high end talent. There are no saviors coming here. That was Melo and Amare and Tyson Chandler. We had one nice year. Better management could have gotten more out of that core but even with revisionist history what was that groups upside? A trip or two to the conference finals? They would be the 3rd or 4th best team. Not beating Cle/Bos/Tor anytime in the next few years so rebuilding makes sense. So if the Knicks are going to succeed in getting the kind of talent you covet (but have no patience for) there will be losing. With losing comes confusion and “we deserve better” and #weSuck and all that.
