Knicks · Melo is at peace but still doesn't get it (page 11)
crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:LOL... yea. Just stop it.JrZyHuStLa wrote:crzymdups wrote:Just out of curiousity.Do you guys blame Jimmy Butler for the dysfunction in Chicago?
Was it KG's fault the Timberwolves sucked and he didn't win jack until he got traded to Boston and teamed up with two other actual stars in their primes?
Is it Chris Paul's fault the Clippers never made it out of the second round?
Is it Anthony Davis's fault the Pelicans suck?
Was it Barkley's fault the Sixers never won a championship?
Was it Chris Webber's fault the Kings didn't make it past the Lakers?
Just wondering where these other NBA greats who couldn't get over the hump on dysfunctional or even great teams stand in your minds.
I looked at this and one thing jumped out.
They're all good to great defensive players.
Your friend Carmelo isn't.
Barkley and Webber played defense???..Stop it man...
How many of those guys have a career .417 FG% in the playoffs? Or a 40 point drop from the regular season to the post?
Its on the Knicks FO. They thought Melo was an alpha. He never was and never has been. He had enough big dogs on the 54 win team. He's a HOF scorer. As a lead guy you get what the Knicks got. A couple good season and mostly mediocre play.
If you want to do the leg work..The compare the players who play with studs versus when they play with saps...Compare the career averages..Like when Bron left Miami and went back to Cleveland when Love got hurt..What was his 56.5% vs. FG% 41.7% when he was the only option...Phil hooked him up the following year tho...There's more to the game than just FG% though. Lebron was a beast on the boards, passing, defense, etc. If Melo's shot isn't falling, he's basically useless.
Breaking news - Melo is not Lebron James.
I have some more for you - neither is KP.
Well, Holfresh is the one who brought Lebron into this. Either way, the statement still stands that if his shot isn't falling he's usually useless. That has nothing to do with comparing him to Lebron.
Melo should not want to be on the team anymore; that's what I don't get. He has maybe 2-3 more years left of playing at a high level; he should want to be on a contender chasing a championship. The Knicks are not that. We are nowhere near to contending, and when we finally will be, he'll be too old to contribute. The timelines don't fit.
This is a classic example of doing what's best for both parties: It's in Melo's best interest to move on (and try to win a championship) and it's in the Knicks' best interest to trade him to continue the rebuild. This should happen in the offseason. There is no reason why Melo would not want to waive the no trade clause.
SocraticBallin22 wrote:Melo doesn't fit with what this team is trying to do right now. We are in tanking and rebuilding mode. We should have done it 20 years ago, and we were kinda forced into backing into doing this year, but at least we're finally doing it.Melo should not want to be on the team anymore; that's what I don't get. He has maybe 2-3 more years left of playing at a high level; he should want to be on a contender chasing a championship. The Knicks are not that. We are nowhere near to contending, and when we finally will be, he'll be too old to contribute. The timelines don't fit.
This is a classic example of doing what's best for both parties: It's in Melo's best interest to move on (and try to win a championship) and it's in the Knicks' best interest to trade him to continue the rebuild. This should happen in the offseason. There is no reason why Melo would not want to waive the no trade clause.
+1. Now we enjoy 2001 all over again. Then 16 years of F ups and we can reset again.
Btw. Did anyone see Shaq thank Phil at monument ceremony? Yeah NEITHER DID I!!
HofstraBBall wrote:Sorry Fellas. Pippen says all you guys don't know what your talking about.
Btw. Did anyone see Shaq thank Phil at monument ceremony? Yeah NEITHER DID I!!
Shaq said it's the players that Noah/Rose/Lee with Melo/KP is a lot of talent
Guess you can take Pippen or Shaq POV depends what your agenda is
I think Phil messed up with Noah and Rose but at the time (a year ago) it looked better than it does now ... a year ago Jose was our PG and Langston the primary backup. We made a big upgrade individually with talent like Rose, Lee and Jennings and brought in a better coach on offense than Fish. It didn't work out.
It's both PJ and the players not one or the other.
nyknickzingis wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Sorry Fellas. Pippen says all you guys don't know what your talking about.
Btw. Did anyone see Shaq thank Phil at monument ceremony? Yeah NEITHER DID I!!Shaq said it's the players that Noah/Rose/Lee with Melo/KP is a lot of talent
Guess you can take Pippen or Shaq POV depends what your agenda isI think Phil messed up with Noah and Rose but at the time (a year ago) it looked better than it does now ... a year ago Jose was our PG and Langston the primary backup. We made a big upgrade individually with talent like Rose, Lee and Jennings and brought in a better coach on offense than Fish. It didn't work out.
It's both PJ and the players not one or the other.
WRONG AGAIN. Pippen named Phil as the PROBLEM!
When exactly did Shaq say Melo was to blame. All he said is system "works". Which it does and did. If you have 2 of the top best players of all time. He also said "if the ball doesn't stop" which some thought it was more of a reference to Kobe. Don't know if you know, but they had an issue with that when they played. Try again
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...
Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???
Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.
????..Who, name them!!!
Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.
Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.
nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.
Good point. I didn't even think of that.MDA gave them completely different roles. D'Antoni gave Harden the ball and told him to run the offense. He told Melo to stand in the corner behind the 3pt line and wait for the occasional shot attempt. He was trying to turn one of the better scorers in the league at the time into a glorified role player. Wasn't going to end any other way.
These guys dont remember any basketball details. Ask him what Sign Lin is. Or what tattoo JKIDD had on his neck. I am sure he remembers those details.
These guys remind me of Jet and Met fans. Year after year hoping and praying they get a savior. And when they are reminded once again that they suck, they blame the poor suckered they crowned as savior. That's Melo. Fact is we have a long way to go before we will win anything. We had a chance to build on 54 wins and sir Phil was the next Starphuck. They just don't see it yet.
Btw, I was one of the poor suckered Met fans. Still are
Read my last post above so you can both STFU!!! Stop talking out your ass. MDA tried to give Melo the SAME DAMNED ROLE as Harden. They have different strengths but the idea was the same.
Which post. The one where you don't know shit about the current direction Phil or the one where you say your a Jets fan? Lmao. Giants take a shit on you guys since they have been around.
And you mean the nutty professor? Great mind. Take one of the best players and throw him out with high percentage three point shooters and tell them to Chuck. Awesome mind. Let's see what happens in playoffs when they have to play Defense!!
Kemet wrote:The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...
Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???
Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.
????..Who, name them!!!
Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.
Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.
HofstraBBall wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Sorry Fellas. Pippen says all you guys don't know what your talking about.
Btw. Did anyone see Shaq thank Phil at monument ceremony? Yeah NEITHER DID I!!Shaq said it's the players that Noah/Rose/Lee with Melo/KP is a lot of talent
Guess you can take Pippen or Shaq POV depends what your agenda isI think Phil messed up with Noah and Rose but at the time (a year ago) it looked better than it does now ... a year ago Jose was our PG and Langston the primary backup. We made a big upgrade individually with talent like Rose, Lee and Jennings and brought in a better coach on offense than Fish. It didn't work out.
It's both PJ and the players not one or the other.
WRONG AGAIN. Pippen named Phil as the PROBLEM!
When exactly did Shaq say Melo was to blame. All he said is system "works". Which it does and did. If you have 2 of the top best players of all time. He also said "if the ball doesn't stop" which some thought it was more of a reference to Kobe. Don't know if you know, but they had an issue with that when they played. Try again
Shaq said the players - he blamed all of the starters. Which is true, it's not just Melo. All the starters deserve blame.
How about Brandon Jennings who was ON THE TEAM.
He said the ball never came back when you passed it to certain spots. He was saying that KP needed to get more ryhthm and it was hard for him with the certain players playing the way they did.
So both BJ and Shaq blame the players as well.
Phil is at fault because he brought in the wrong players for a style of play. That and the Noah contract. That's on Phil.
But how Rose and Melo played, that's on them. When a new team forms with alot of players who have 1 on 1 skills or like to play 1 on 1, it's important for the leaders and the vets to take a step back and look at what's in the best interests of the team and what sets the right example. Wade and James did this in Miami. Pierce and KG did this in Boston. That's what great players do. Rose and Melo have great talent, but I don't think either will ever win a championship as a top 2 player. There's a reason for that, and it goes beyond their teammates.
Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:LOL... yea. Just stop it.JrZyHuStLa wrote:crzymdups wrote:Just out of curiousity.Do you guys blame Jimmy Butler for the dysfunction in Chicago?
Was it KG's fault the Timberwolves sucked and he didn't win jack until he got traded to Boston and teamed up with two other actual stars in their primes?
Is it Chris Paul's fault the Clippers never made it out of the second round?
Is it Anthony Davis's fault the Pelicans suck?
Was it Barkley's fault the Sixers never won a championship?
Was it Chris Webber's fault the Kings didn't make it past the Lakers?
Just wondering where these other NBA greats who couldn't get over the hump on dysfunctional or even great teams stand in your minds.
I looked at this and one thing jumped out.
They're all good to great defensive players.
Your friend Carmelo isn't.
Barkley and Webber played defense???..Stop it man...
How many of those guys have a career .417 FG% in the playoffs? Or a 40 point drop from the regular season to the post?
Its on the Knicks FO. They thought Melo was an alpha. He never was and never has been. He had enough big dogs on the 54 win team. He's a HOF scorer. As a lead guy you get what the Knicks got. A couple good season and mostly mediocre play.
If you want to do the leg work..The compare the players who play with studs versus when they play with saps...Compare the career averages..Like when Bron left Miami and went back to Cleveland when Love got hurt..What was his 56.5% vs. FG% 41.7% when he was the only option...Phil hooked him up the following year tho...There's more to the game than just FG% though. Lebron was a beast on the boards, passing, defense, etc. If Melo's shot isn't falling, he's basically useless.
Breaking news - Melo is not Lebron James.
I have some more for you - neither is KP.
Well, Holfresh is the one who brought Lebron into this. Either way, the statement still stands that if his shot isn't falling he's usually useless. That has nothing to do with comparing him to Lebron.
It's weak sauce that crazy is bringing up KP. I mean should KP be held to the same standards as the players who make 21 and 25 million on the team? The Knicks have invested less than 11 M in salary on KP so far. They've invested over 130M in Melo. They pay Melo to be one of the top 5-10 players in the league, and outside of maybe 1 season we have never got that. He isn't that good a player, never has been. The team was wrong to pay him that much, Phil was wrong for giving him a NTC. Melo is a Robin, He's a sidekick to a great Batman. He's not a Batman. He's never going to be Kobe, Jordan, Lebron, Steph Curry. Even James Harden or Westbrook. He's not built that way. He's a very good scorer, and an asset as a #2 option. The Knicks made a mistake thinking they could build a winner around him as the team's best player.
How many isolation players who are good but not dominant great like Kobe or MJ win in the league? It's much easier to build a team around a Center, or to build a team around a great point guard. CP3 and Melo have been pretty close to the best at their spots. But CP3 will always win more games and be better because it's easier to build a team around CP3 than Melo.
BTW, I also feel the same will be the case for KP. We should not expect to build a team around KP and win rings with him as the man. We could be competitive at best. Right now the way to win is to get a really good guard. We have to get that ballhandling, playmaking, scoring guard who makes teammates better and runs the offense. KP can probably become a very good 2nd option on a contender if he develops his post game. No one is ever saying when "rebuild and trade Melo" that it means KP will lead the team to rings. However until you trade Melo, you can't properly rebuild.
nyknickzingis wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Sorry Fellas. Pippen says all you guys don't know what your talking about.
Btw. Did anyone see Shaq thank Phil at monument ceremony? Yeah NEITHER DID I!!Shaq said it's the players that Noah/Rose/Lee with Melo/KP is a lot of talent
Guess you can take Pippen or Shaq POV depends what your agenda isI think Phil messed up with Noah and Rose but at the time (a year ago) it looked better than it does now ... a year ago Jose was our PG and Langston the primary backup. We made a big upgrade individually with talent like Rose, Lee and Jennings and brought in a better coach on offense than Fish. It didn't work out.
It's both PJ and the players not one or the other.
WRONG AGAIN. Pippen named Phil as the PROBLEM!
When exactly did Shaq say Melo was to blame. All he said is system "works". Which it does and did. If you have 2 of the top best players of all time. He also said "if the ball doesn't stop" which some thought it was more of a reference to Kobe. Don't know if you know, but they had an issue with that when they played. Try again
Shaq said the players - he blamed all of the starters. Which is true, it's not just Melo. All the starters deserve blame.
How about Brandon Jennings who was ON THE TEAM.
He said the ball never came back when you passed it to certain spots. He was saying that KP needed to get more ryhthm and it was hard for him with the certain players playing the way they did.So both BJ and Shaq blame the players as well.
Phil is at fault because he brought in the wrong players for a style of play. That and the Noah contract. That's on Phil.
But how Rose and Melo played, that's on them. When a new team forms with alot of players who have 1 on 1 skills or like to play 1 on 1, it's important for the leaders and the vets to take a step back and look at what's in the best interests of the team and what sets the right example. Wade and James did this in Miami. Pierce and KG did this in Boston. That's what great players do. Rose and Melo have great talent, but I don't think either will ever win a championship as a top 2 player. There's a reason for that, and it goes beyond their teammates.
Who is saying it's not the players as well?????? How many games have we won? WE SUCK. I am arguing against the idiots that think if not for Melo we would be in the Playoffs. And that Phil has no blame in this laugher of a team. We will see that KP running the show will be worse. Shaq said players need to buy in to the system!! PROBLEM....everyone in NBA knows it as an old slow system. So no one will buy into it. Ding ding ding!! Including KP. Unless you are ignoring what he said as well?
HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.
Good point. I didn't even think of that.MDA gave them completely different roles. D'Antoni gave Harden the ball and told him to run the offense. He told Melo to stand in the corner behind the 3pt line and wait for the occasional shot attempt. He was trying to turn one of the better scorers in the league at the time into a glorified role player. Wasn't going to end any other way.
These guys dont remember any basketball details. Ask him what Sign Lin is. Or what tattoo JKIDD had on his neck. I am sure he remembers those details.
These guys remind me of Jet and Met fans. Year after year hoping and praying they get a savior. And when they are reminded once again that they suck, they blame the poor suckered they crowned as savior. That's Melo. Fact is we have a long way to go before we will win anything. We had a chance to build on 54 wins and sir Phil was the next Starphuck. They just don't see it yet.
Btw, I was one of the poor suckered Met fans. Still are
Read my last post above so you can both STFU!!! Stop talking out your ass. MDA tried to give Melo the SAME DAMNED ROLE as Harden. They have different strengths but the idea was the same.
Which post. The one where you don't know shit about the current direction Phil or the one where you say your a Jets fan? Lmao. Giants take a shit on you guys since they have been around.
And you mean the nutty professor? Great mind. Take one of the best players and throw him out with high percentage three point shooters and tell them to Chuck. Awesome mind. Let's see what happens in playoffs when they have to play Defense!!
Hey would you want to have Houston's record or ours? You can hate on MDA all you want but when his Front Office supports him and allows him to do his thing he wins games. He is getting a lot out of his roster which like his days in PHX is not the most talented roster in the league. When you talk shyte at least acknowledge the truth.
Hey genius what's your answer to the Knicks situation? What do you propose they do from here?
He's not been the player the Knicks hoped he could be when they traded for him. He's basically a Robin, not a Batman. They tried to make things happen with him as a Batman, but he is not able to. Some players can not win being a Batman. Some players can. Think about CP3. He's always making his team better. Every team he's been on plays better with him.
Melo is a player who is a very good scorer, but neither makes the offense or defense shift to a degree that results in major impact. The team needs to get a point guard, or a guard that can be in the Melo role. Highest usage player. Only this player passes, finds open players, and is the one that makes the offense go, the engine. It won't be easy to find that player, that's for sure.
And no KP is NOT that player. No one said he is. What people are sayiing is that if Melo is traded and KP is forced to create more shots and learn how to play better in the post by force, even if the team loses 60 games, it's not a bad thing in the longrun. KP will not likely be better than a Robin himself. Even Phil doesn't expect more than Pau Gasol (who was a #2 on a ring team in his prime) Where I think KP has elite value is rim protection. In his prime/peak, I hope KP can change the way the team can play defense. He won't be a James Harden, Russell Westbrook, MVP level player who is the engine off the offense.
nixluva wrote:You are right about D'Antoni teams if he has the right roster and support. How do you think Hornacek would do with the right roster and support? Do you think he has been given support from the front office this year?HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.
Good point. I didn't even think of that.MDA gave them completely different roles. D'Antoni gave Harden the ball and told him to run the offense. He told Melo to stand in the corner behind the 3pt line and wait for the occasional shot attempt. He was trying to turn one of the better scorers in the league at the time into a glorified role player. Wasn't going to end any other way.
These guys dont remember any basketball details. Ask him what Sign Lin is. Or what tattoo JKIDD had on his neck. I am sure he remembers those details.
These guys remind me of Jet and Met fans. Year after year hoping and praying they get a savior. And when they are reminded once again that they suck, they blame the poor suckered they crowned as savior. That's Melo. Fact is we have a long way to go before we will win anything. We had a chance to build on 54 wins and sir Phil was the next Starphuck. They just don't see it yet.
Btw, I was one of the poor suckered Met fans. Still are
Read my last post above so you can both STFU!!! Stop talking out your ass. MDA tried to give Melo the SAME DAMNED ROLE as Harden. They have different strengths but the idea was the same.
Which post. The one where you don't know shit about the current direction Phil or the one where you say your a Jets fan? Lmao. Giants take a shit on you guys since they have been around.
And you mean the nutty professor? Great mind. Take one of the best players and throw him out with high percentage three point shooters and tell them to Chuck. Awesome mind. Let's see what happens in playoffs when they have to play Defense!!
Hey would you want to have Houston's record or ours? You can hate on MDA all you want but when his Front Office supports him and allows him to do his thing he wins games. He is getting a lot out of his roster which like his days in PHX is not the most talented roster in the league. When you talk shyte at least acknowledge the truth.
Hey genius what's your answer to the Knicks situation? What do you propose they do from here?
nyknickzingis wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:LOL... yea. Just stop it.JrZyHuStLa wrote:crzymdups wrote:Just out of curiousity.Do you guys blame Jimmy Butler for the dysfunction in Chicago?
Was it KG's fault the Timberwolves sucked and he didn't win jack until he got traded to Boston and teamed up with two other actual stars in their primes?
Is it Chris Paul's fault the Clippers never made it out of the second round?
Is it Anthony Davis's fault the Pelicans suck?
Was it Barkley's fault the Sixers never won a championship?
Was it Chris Webber's fault the Kings didn't make it past the Lakers?
Just wondering where these other NBA greats who couldn't get over the hump on dysfunctional or even great teams stand in your minds.
I looked at this and one thing jumped out.
They're all good to great defensive players.
Your friend Carmelo isn't.
Barkley and Webber played defense???..Stop it man...
How many of those guys have a career .417 FG% in the playoffs? Or a 40 point drop from the regular season to the post?
Its on the Knicks FO. They thought Melo was an alpha. He never was and never has been. He had enough big dogs on the 54 win team. He's a HOF scorer. As a lead guy you get what the Knicks got. A couple good season and mostly mediocre play.
If you want to do the leg work..The compare the players who play with studs versus when they play with saps...Compare the career averages..Like when Bron left Miami and went back to Cleveland when Love got hurt..What was his 56.5% vs. FG% 41.7% when he was the only option...Phil hooked him up the following year tho...There's more to the game than just FG% though. Lebron was a beast on the boards, passing, defense, etc. If Melo's shot isn't falling, he's basically useless.
Breaking news - Melo is not Lebron James.
I have some more for you - neither is KP.
Well, Holfresh is the one who brought Lebron into this. Either way, the statement still stands that if his shot isn't falling he's usually useless. That has nothing to do with comparing him to Lebron.
It's weak sauce that crazy is bringing up KP. I mean should KP be held to the same standards as the players who make 21 and 25 million on the team? The Knicks have invested less than 11 M in salary on KP so far. They've invested over 130M in Melo. They pay Melo to be one of the top 5-10 players in the league, and outside of maybe 1 season we have never got that. He isn't that good a player, never has been. The team was wrong to pay him that much, Phil was wrong for giving him a NTC. Melo is a Robin, He's a sidekick to a great Batman. He's not a Batman. He's never going to be Kobe, Jordan, Lebron, Steph Curry. Even James Harden or Westbrook. He's not built that way. He's a very good scorer, and an asset as a #2 option. The Knicks made a mistake thinking they could build a winner around him as the team's best player.How many isolation players who are good but not dominant great like Kobe or MJ win in the league? It's much easier to build a team around a Center, or to build a team around a great point guard. CP3 and Melo have been pretty close to the best at their spots. But CP3 will always win more games and be better because it's easier to build a team around CP3 than Melo.
BTW, I also feel the same will be the case for KP. We should not expect to build a team around KP and win rings with him as the man. We could be competitive at best. Right now the way to win is to get a really good guard. We have to get that ballhandling, playmaking, scoring guard who makes teammates better and runs the offense. KP can probably become a very good 2nd option on a contender if he develops his post game. No one is ever saying when "rebuild and trade Melo" that it means KP will lead the team to rings. However until you trade Melo, you can't properly rebuild.
I wasn't slagging KP by saying he's not Lebron James. I was making the point that it is insane to compare Melo to him. I think Lebron is inarguably one of the top three players of all time and arguably the best player of all time. Bonn compared Melo to Lebron, which is absurd.
Melo is always compared to Lebron, Kobe, and MJ to knock him down. Guess what? He's not nearly as good as those guys. He doesn't have the otherworldly athleticism. But he must be pretty good if those are the guys people have to compare him to to cast him in a bad light.
I have nothing against KP. He's one of my favorites in the league right now.
nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.
Good point. I didn't even think of that.MDA gave them completely different roles. D'Antoni gave Harden the ball and told him to run the offense. He told Melo to stand in the corner behind the 3pt line and wait for the occasional shot attempt. He was trying to turn one of the better scorers in the league at the time into a glorified role player. Wasn't going to end any other way.
These guys dont remember any basketball details. Ask him what Sign Lin is. Or what tattoo JKIDD had on his neck. I am sure he remembers those details.
These guys remind me of Jet and Met fans. Year after year hoping and praying they get a savior. And when they are reminded once again that they suck, they blame the poor suckered they crowned as savior. That's Melo. Fact is we have a long way to go before we will win anything. We had a chance to build on 54 wins and sir Phil was the next Starphuck. They just don't see it yet.
Btw, I was one of the poor suckered Met fans. Still are
Read my last post above so you can both STFU!!! Stop talking out your ass. MDA tried to give Melo the SAME DAMNED ROLE as Harden. They have different strengths but the idea was the same.
Which post. The one where you don't know shit about the current direction Phil or the one where you say your a Jets fan? Lmao. Giants take a shit on you guys since they have been around.
And you mean the nutty professor? Great mind. Take one of the best players and throw him out with high percentage three point shooters and tell them to Chuck. Awesome mind. Let's see what happens in playoffs when they have to play Defense!!
Hey would you want to have Houston's record or ours? You can hate on MDA all you want but when his Front Office supports him and allows him to do his thing he wins games. He is getting a lot out of his roster which like his days in PHX is not the most talented roster in the league. When you talk shyte at least acknowledge the truth.
Hey genius what's your answer to the Knicks situation? What do you propose they do from here?
So MDA was succesful in LA becuase of his great coaching? Would rather have Woodson here giving Melo the ball.
Thanks for addressing me correctly. My solution is to free Melo.(Printing T shirts as we speak. Will send you one) Fire Phil and get a young GM who has no agenda to push that further sinks the perception of this joke of a franchise. A GM who doesnt isolate us further into extinction. Next would be to hire the best coach available. Not one that fits the offensive scheme that someone ran 20 years ago. Next, I would draft best available players that I think would fit the current NBA landscape. ie. 3pt shooters, players that can play multiple positions and athletic two way players. Not ones that fit a 20 year old offensive scheme. Next, i would pick up good NBA free agents that are proven. Not just ones that I think fit a 20 year old system. And this one is improtant...I would not try to change them to fit a 20 year old scheme. If that doesnt work, than just tell the stupid fan base that I did it all on purpose and press reset!!
GO GMEN!!! Did you catch our last 2 superbowls? What happened to Jets. Let me guess, its all Fergusonss fault? Forte?
CrushAlot wrote:Kemet wrote:The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...
Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???
Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.
????..Who, name them!!!
Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.
Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.
What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.
HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.
Good point. I didn't even think of that.MDA gave them completely different roles. D'Antoni gave Harden the ball and told him to run the offense. He told Melo to stand in the corner behind the 3pt line and wait for the occasional shot attempt. He was trying to turn one of the better scorers in the league at the time into a glorified role player. Wasn't going to end any other way.
These guys dont remember any basketball details. Ask him what Sign Lin is. Or what tattoo JKIDD had on his neck. I am sure he remembers those details.
These guys remind me of Jet and Met fans. Year after year hoping and praying they get a savior. And when they are reminded once again that they suck, they blame the poor suckered they crowned as savior. That's Melo. Fact is we have a long way to go before we will win anything. We had a chance to build on 54 wins and sir Phil was the next Starphuck. They just don't see it yet.
Btw, I was one of the poor suckered Met fans. Still are
Read my last post above so you can both STFU!!! Stop talking out your ass. MDA tried to give Melo the SAME DAMNED ROLE as Harden. They have different strengths but the idea was the same.
Which post. The one where you don't know shit about the current direction Phil or the one where you say your a Jets fan? Lmao. Giants take a shit on you guys since they have been around.
And you mean the nutty professor? Great mind. Take one of the best players and throw him out with high percentage three point shooters and tell them to Chuck. Awesome mind. Let's see what happens in playoffs when they have to play Defense!!
Hey would you want to have Houston's record or ours? You can hate on MDA all you want but when his Front Office supports him and allows him to do his thing he wins games. He is getting a lot out of his roster which like his days in PHX is not the most talented roster in the league. When you talk shyte at least acknowledge the truth.
Hey genius what's your answer to the Knicks situation? What do you propose they do from here?
So MDA was succesful in LA becuase of his great coaching? Would rather have Woodson here giving Melo the ball.
Thanks for addressing me correctly. My solution is to free Melo.(Printing T shirts as we speak. Will send you one) Fire Phil and get a young GM who has no agenda to push that further sinks the perception of this joke of a franchise. A GM who doesnt isolate us further into extinction. Next would be to hire the best coach available. Not one that fits the offensive scheme that someone ran 20 years ago. Next, I would draft best available players that I think would fit the current NBA landscape. ie. 3pt shooters, players that can play multiple positions and athletic two way players. Not ones that fit a 20 year old offensive scheme. Next, i would pick up good NBA free agents that are proven. Not just ones that I think fit a 20 year old system. And this one is improtant...I would not try to change them to fit a 20 year old scheme. If that doesnt work, than just tell the stupid fan base that I did it all on purpose and press reset!!
GO GMEN!!! Did you catch our last 2 superbowls? What happened to Jets. Let me guess, its all Fergusonss fault? Forte?
So basically you don't have a plan, just a bunch of cliche shyte that everyone says and most of the other LOSING TEAMS are already doing!
Bonn1997 wrote:I was just responding to Kemet. I thought he was suggesting that the Nuggets should have done more Melo's rookie year. Is that how you took his comment about Melo's rookie year?CrushAlot wrote:Kemet wrote:The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...
Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???
Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.
????..Who, name them!!!
Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.
Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.
What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Kemet wrote:The nuggets won 26 more games in Melo's rookie year. They went from 17 wins to 43 and went to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...
Those guys actually did it in a way that helped their teams win though (efficient scoring and/or a strong impact on both ends of the court). How many games these past years have we won where Melo scored 30 to 40? Those guys also could do this and pile up the assists - they weren't neglecting their teammates.
Harden gets 30 to 40 with remarkable efficiency due to his FT shooting. Westbrook and Kobe were able to get 30 to 40 with reasonably good efficiency and still save enough energy for outstanding defense and they were good at setting their teammates up. (And I shouldn't even need to explain MJ.)
The concern with Melo is that when he talks about a reduced role on offense, he's probably thinking taking 18 shots a game instead of 20. I've never seen him take a seriously reduced role. The best thing he could do would be take 12 or 13 high quality shots a game and then use his passing skills to improve his teammates, and save his energy for defense. He actually can be an excellent passer and good defender when he wants to be. The problem is not with his skills - it's his approach to the game. This hasn't changed in the past 14 years.Well we can compare rosters position for position, you really want o go there???
Melo has had enough all-stars, award-winning teammates (DPOY, MVP candidate) that he should have been able to do much better than he has. Of course teammates matter but no, I will not say this is 100% due to his teammates or even close to that. Teammates can never be an excuse for poor shot selection and poor defense. As long as you have guys who can make a layup you should not be chucking off-balance mid range shots with 15 left on the shot clock.
????..Who, name them!!!
Are you serious? Are you actually watching? Billups, Stoudemire, Tyson, Iverson. Most teams don't have two all-stars but he has had an all-star teammate many seasons. And he's had plenty of competent non-all-star teammates too. He's had enough support that if he actually used his skill set intelligently (on both ends of the court), his teams would have done much better than .300 or so in the playoffs and .500 in the regular season. (I'm just estimating the career winning percentages.) He's had a max contract skill set with a poor mindset his whole career.
Melo rookie season in Denver Nuggets had Camby/Nene/Birdman/and little pesky PG Boykins to have a 41 win season .. Camby and Sprewell took us to the FINALS. Melo was given Iverson and Kenyon Martin two super-star players that took their previous team to the FINALS. Then Melo was given super-star PG Billups who took his previous team to the FINALS.
The Knicks change their roster over every season Melo was in NY plus the Knicks change head-coaches 5 times for Melo ..... Melo belong on the sorry no first round draft pick Nets not the Knicks.
What exactly are you claiming? Melo brought 26 wins himself? Yet he brought nothing when he joined us mid-season (our winning % was lower with him than before the trade)? He brought 26 wins his rookie year but yet our whole barely wins that now? OR alternatively change in team wins is a bad way to evaluate a player.
I think it says he is a winner with the right pieces around him..They went to the playoffs every year he was there too..