crzymdups wrote:nyk4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Zebo13 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:holfresh wrote:Harden needs to go out and score 30/40 a night..Westbrook needed to go out and score 30/40 a night..MJ needed to go out and score 30/40 a night...Kobe needed to go out an core 30/40 a night..Silly commentary and you just want to take a shot at Melo...Have at it, you can find plenty of help here...
wow mentioning melo with all those guys is pure comedy. but it's really funny you should mention james harden... isn't it ironic that harden is averaging near a triple-double with the coach that melo was to stubborn to adapt to and decided to stop playing for? if that's not exhibitA of how melo has handled his whole entire career in the NBA, i'm not sure what is.
Doesn't really translate. With the Suns and Rockets D'antoni had a HOF level PG running the entire operation. Melo woulda had to be a role player with subpar talented attempting to run things.
The Melo haters think he should be a HOF point guard if he really cared about winning. It's hard to explain to them he's not necessarily a point guard. They say Melo not being a HOF point guard means he's not trying hard enough.
umm excuse me? melo hater? try fucking reading you jackass, no one has been a bigger melo suppoter than i have during his time here. and guess what, harden was never a PG before this year either, yet he ADAPTED, something melo wasn't willing to do... which was the entire point of the post, not to compare pgs. your agenda is fucking insane.
btw good job ignoring my posts to you on previous pages, you had no problem replying to anyone and everyone else. i know they went directly against your agenda, which is why you ignored them, but still. nice touch man.
Not sure I understand the vitriol. I'm sorry if I missed your posts. There were a lot and I responded to a few, not all.
For the record, I think Harden has the toolbox and skillset to be a PG. D'Antoni was smart to see that.
Melo does not have that toolbox or skillset. D'Antoni tried to force Melo to play the one way he apparently knows how to suceed, or have Melo camped in the corner while Lin ran the show. It wasn't a good fit. I think it could've been better if they'd amnesty-ed Amar'e instead of Billups to sign Tyson... but alas. A Billups/Melo/Tyson core would've made more sense under MDA.
I really don't have an agenda. Is it really hard to believe that I think Phil has done a bad job and that Melo is getting unfairly blamed for it? My only agenda is that I would like the Knicks to be good. I apologize if I am overly cranky about this season, but it's been quite a crappy one. At least we have a draft pick this year. Last year we didn't have that (and, yes, I know that's Dolan's fault, not Phil's)
What is Melo being blamed for?
A star player that doesnt defend and doesnt pass the ball needs to go. Thats his blame.
What else and what is unfair about that?
With regard to MDA and Melo. Melo is one of the better PnR Ball Handlers at the Forward spot. He always has been.
While he's been in isolation setups 29.4 percent of the time, he's averaging 0.879 points per play. But while he's been the pick-and-roll ball handler 10.4 percent of the time, he's averaging 0.964 points per play -- fifth best in the NBA (minimum 100 possessions).In fact, Anthony has been practicing the two-man game with Tyson Chandler dating back to last season. Melo was third in the league in points per play as the pick-and-roll ball handler last year. But he ran the play only 133 times. So far this season, he's already up to 110.
Melo in pick-and-rolls puts even more pressure on opponents because he's such a switch nightmare for his pull-up, driving and 3-point abilities. His presence creates open lanes for Chandler and shots for his teammates.
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-knicks...MDA wanting to use him more that way wasn't wrong. As for the notion of MDA having Melo camp out in the Corner after Lin took over that's a bit of an exaggeration but let's be real the Olympic Melo role is the one that MDA was most responsible for. Basically he becomes a Catch and Shoot Sniper as the Trail guy at the top or in the half court moving to open spots all over the place from 3pt range. Melo had no issues with playing that way on the Olympic Team but when he gets to the regular season he only wants to Post up.
Nothing wrong with Posting Up but Melo still has to play more Team Oriented ball and look to move the ball out of the Double as he did last year. This and giving more effort on D is all anyone really asks of Melo. If he's going to get the most touches on the team then just be that focal point of the offense and help the rest of the team to play better by getting them better shots. WE ALL SAW HIM DO IT!!! It wasn't even hard for him.
holfresh wrote:Cartman718 wrote:holfresh wrote:Cartman718 wrote:so no one else thought that Melo pulled the 30 or 40 every night number out of his aszs? Has he ever even averaged 30 for half a season?
Hasn't he averaged 28/29 per a few times??
2006...11 years ago... 28.9
2012...5 years ago... 28.7
With NY... averaging less than 64 games per season and with his tenure with NY Knicks...24.3 ppg avg
So where does he come with the 30 points every night number or even 40 for that matter.
Has he even scored 40 points in 40 games of any season?
I knew he meant it figuratively..He has done close to it in his career, and he has scored 30 and 40 pts many times in his career as well...But since you decided to be literal and call him on it..Is 1 point per game a far reach from which he has averaged in the past???
you cannot be figurative and say EVERY NIGHT.
Melohaters getting what they want but it still isn't enough.
Greatest Knick since Ewing with the worst amount of talent in the history of the franchise and the pointless sh[b[/b]it just keeps getting flung...
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:To me it is a huge admission of his basketball EGO and low IQ in that he thinks its about scoring 30 or 40 points and NOT doing whatever it takes to WIN!! His NY tenure has always been this. People stroking his EGO so he will at least do the one thing he can do and score points.
Phil tried the opposite approach and it has backfired. I don't blame him for trying as it had to be exposed.
This boils it down nicely for me
Cartman718 wrote:holfresh wrote:Cartman718 wrote:holfresh wrote:Cartman718 wrote:so no one else thought that Melo pulled the 30 or 40 every night number out of his aszs? Has he ever even averaged 30 for half a season?
Hasn't he averaged 28/29 per a few times??
2006...11 years ago... 28.9
2012...5 years ago... 28.7
With NY... averaging less than 64 games per season and with his tenure with NY Knicks...24.3 ppg avg
So where does he come with the 30 points every night number or even 40 for that matter.
Has he even scored 40 points in 40 games of any season?
I knew he meant it figuratively..He has done close to it in his career, and he has scored 30 and 40 pts many times in his career as well...But since you decided to be literal and call him on it..Is 1 point per game a far reach from which he has averaged in the past???
you cannot be figurative and say EVERY NIGHT.
Well 29 per for an entire season is what??? Every Night, no??..But yeah, you can say 30/40 every night and mean it figuratively...Because scoring 30/40 every night would mean 70 pts no??? If you insist on being literal..
holfresh wrote:Cartman718 wrote:holfresh wrote:Cartman718 wrote:holfresh wrote:Cartman718 wrote:so no one else thought that Melo pulled the 30 or 40 every night number out of his aszs? Has he ever even averaged 30 for half a season?
Hasn't he averaged 28/29 per a few times??
2006...11 years ago... 28.9
2012...5 years ago... 28.7
With NY... averaging less than 64 games per season and with his tenure with NY Knicks...24.3 ppg avg
So where does he come with the 30 points every night number or even 40 for that matter.
Has he even scored 40 points in 40 games of any season?
I knew he meant it figuratively..He has done close to it in his career, and he has scored 30 and 40 pts many times in his career as well...But since you decided to be literal and call him on it..Is 1 point per game a far reach from which he has averaged in the past???
you cannot be figurative and say EVERY NIGHT.
Well 29 per for an entire season is what??? Every Night, no??..But yeah, you can say 30/40 every night and mean it figuratively...Because scoring 30/40 every night would mean 70 pts no??? If you insist on being literal..
the last time he did that was 5 years ago so do you think he's reliving the past?
jrodmc wrote:Melohaters getting what they want but it still isn't enough. Greatest Knick since Ewing with the worst amount of talent in the history of the franchise and the pointless sh[b[/b]it just keeps getting flung...
He takes a huge chunk of the responsibility for having a poor team around him due to insisting on the trade. I completely understand him wanting a trade rather than risk the new CBA, but that financial security had consequences, left him with an empty, shallow team with no assets to trade, no young players, no bench and no cap space.
Given Melo's latest "i see the writing on the wall" comment, i think he is as good as gone this summer. I will be sorry to see him go, since we will probably get very little in return. And i also think it would have been possible to retool on the quick this summer by signing a passing FA PG and drafting a dynamic player ready to contribute off the bench (like sam cassel with the rockets way back), and actually becoming very competitive with melo still in the fold.
But melo wants a better shot at a chip, and i also understand his thinking.
ESOMKnicks wrote:Given Melo's latest "i see the writing on the wall" comment, i think he is as good as gone this summer. I will be sorry to see him go, since we will probably get very little in return. And i also think it would have been possible to retool on the quick this summer by signing a passing FA PG and drafting a dynamic player ready to contribute off the bench (like sam cassel with the rockets way back), and actually becoming very competitive with melo still in the fold.But melo wants a better shot at a chip, and i also understand his thinking.
“The writing — yeah, I see it on the wall. You don’t know what writing is on the wall, though, but I see what writing is on the wall.”https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/2cec4074-b1...
smackeddog wrote:jrodmc wrote:Melohaters getting what they want but it still isn't enough. Greatest Knick since Ewing with the worst amount of talent in the history of the franchise and the pointless sh[b[/b]it just keeps getting flung...
He takes a huge chunk of the responsibility for having a poor team around him due to insisting on the trade. I completely understand him wanting a trade rather than risk the new CBA, but that financial security had consequences, left him with an empty, shallow team with no assets to trade, no young players, no bench and no cap space.
Ahhh. The huge "Chunk" of bullshit. He won 54 games just a couple of seasons after the trade! Then we had an injury filled season. Then Phil came, gave him max deal with NTC clause and promised him he had the "Master Plan" for him.
There is plenty of blame to go around when your this bad!!!
The "Writing on the Walls says": we can lose with you, and without you..........
Melo wants to play 6 more years? I suppose the question for him is does he prioritize city for his personal and family choice or team?
Does he choose winning basketball or personal goals of scoring points?
Nalod wrote:There is plenty of blame to go around when your this bad!!!
The "Writing on the Walls says": we can lose with you, and without you..........Melo wants to play 6 more years? I suppose the question for him is does he prioritize city for his personal and family choice or team?
Does he choose winning basketball or personal goals of scoring points?
The last three years, all I wanted was to see was Phil put a competitive team on the court and ask Melo to man up..To much to ask???..Can Phil just do one thing, just one???..It's easy to spout out Melo isn't playing winning basketball...What if he plays "winning basketball" but because we have 6 undrafted players on the roster we can't win anyway..PHIL DO YOUR JOB OR JUST LEAVE, PLEASE...All lip service from Phil and his supporters...Finger pointing...No one wants to be a man and say it's on me..Just finger pointing..
This roster is atrocious, like the last three years, unwatchable...How does N'Dour make this squad??? Amundson???
HofstraBBall wrote:smackeddog wrote:jrodmc wrote:Melohaters getting what they want but it still isn't enough. Greatest Knick since Ewing with the worst amount of talent in the history of the franchise and the pointless sh[b[/b]it just keeps getting flung...
He takes a huge chunk of the responsibility for having a poor team around him due to insisting on the trade. I completely understand him wanting a trade rather than risk the new CBA, but that financial security had consequences, left him with an empty, shallow team with no assets to trade, no young players, no bench and no cap space.
Ahhh. The huge "Chunk" of bullshit. He won 54 games just a couple of seasons after the trade! Then we had an injury filled season. Then Phil came, gave him max deal with NTC clause and promised him he had the "Master Plan" for him.
Best thing for you to do is just keep watching games from that season. The denial starts when people refuse to accept that a) he's been in decline since that season and b) he was never much of an alpha to begin with.
Great scorer. We won a playoff series in 7 years with Melo. It was an amazing run and wild ride. All downs, the up... its just time to move on.
holfresh wrote:Nalod wrote:There is plenty of blame to go around when your this bad!!!
The "Writing on the Walls says": we can lose with you, and without you..........Melo wants to play 6 more years? I suppose the question for him is does he prioritize city for his personal and family choice or team?
Does he choose winning basketball or personal goals of scoring points?
The last three years, all I wanted was to see was Phil put a competitive team on the court and ask Melo to man up..To much to ask???..Can Phil just do one thing, just one???..It's easy to spout out Melo isn't playing winning basketball...What if he plays "winning basketball" but because we have 6 undrafted players on the roster we can't win anyway..PHIL DO YOUR JOB OR JUST LEAVE, PLEASE...All lip service from Phil and his supporters...Finger pointing...No one wants to be a man and say it's on me..Just finger pointing..
This roster is atrocious, like the last three years, unwatchable...How does N'Dour make this squad??? Amundson???
I suppose you come from one corner, I the other.
What about the lip service from players?
Mr "rolodex", or "I sacrifice my game for the team".......
And what is the sacrifice really? Kind of telling isn't it? Isn't the game about winning? Team? So what is the sacrifice?
Im not saying Melo is a pig, but you paint Phil as incompetant. You obviously not have read any of his books.
As a coach he took the blame for much, even his failure to get thru to some players.
He is not the coach, and its obvious you want him to stand up and take the hit. What team president does that? When does a player also take it on him for a teams lack of success?
Highest paid player has responsibilities! When does a player "Sacrifice"? His body perhaps, but "His game" is about his brand and "his" point total?
Nalod thinks "Knicks Failed". Melo, Rose, Noah, Phil, Jeff, Rambis, Herb, the security guy that looks like Gary Busey, Lee, KP......All failed.
HofstraBBall wrote:smackeddog wrote:jrodmc wrote:Melohaters getting what they want but it still isn't enough. Greatest Knick since Ewing with the worst amount of talent in the history of the franchise and the pointless sh[b[/b]it just keeps getting flung...
He takes a huge chunk of the responsibility for having a poor team around him due to insisting on the trade. I completely understand him wanting a trade rather than risk the new CBA, but that financial security had consequences, left him with an empty, shallow team with no assets to trade, no young players, no bench and no cap space.
Ahhh. The huge "Chunk" of bullshit. He won 54 games just a couple of seasons after the trade! Then we had an injury filled season. Then Phil came, gave him max deal with NTC clause and promised him he had the "Master Plan" for him.
ROTFLMAO - Every time you bring up Melo these guys give you a noun, a verb and 54 wins.
meloshouldgo wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:smackeddog wrote:jrodmc wrote:Melohaters getting what they want but it still isn't enough. Greatest Knick since Ewing with the worst amount of talent in the history of the franchise and the pointless sh[b[/b]it just keeps getting flung...
He takes a huge chunk of the responsibility for having a poor team around him due to insisting on the trade. I completely understand him wanting a trade rather than risk the new CBA, but that financial security had consequences, left him with an empty, shallow team with no assets to trade, no young players, no bench and no cap space.
Ahhh. The huge "Chunk" of bullshit. He won 54 games just a couple of seasons after the trade! Then we had an injury filled season. Then Phil came, gave him max deal with NTC clause and promised him he had the "Master Plan" for him.
ROTFLMAO - Every time you bring up Melo these guys give you a noun, a verb and 54 wins.
"HE" won 54 games? All by himself?
Nalod wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:smackeddog wrote:jrodmc wrote:Melohaters getting what they want but it still isn't enough. Greatest Knick since Ewing with the worst amount of talent in the history of the franchise and the pointless sh[b[/b]it just keeps getting flung...
He takes a huge chunk of the responsibility for having a poor team around him due to insisting on the trade. I completely understand him wanting a trade rather than risk the new CBA, but that financial security had consequences, left him with an empty, shallow team with no assets to trade, no young players, no bench and no cap space.
Ahhh. The huge "Chunk" of bullshit. He won 54 games just a couple of seasons after the trade! Then we had an injury filled season. Then Phil came, gave him max deal with NTC clause and promised him he had the "Master Plan" for him.
ROTFLMAO - Every time you bring up Melo these guys give you a noun, a verb and 54 wins.
"HE" won 54 games? All by himself?
Nah...According to some, Kidd and his 6 pts per game was solely responsible for the 54 wins
Melo was just along for the ride...
I blame Melo for being over confident and selfish when he forced his way to the Knicks. Eventhough we gave up mediocre players, they were bargaining chips and bench depth and the knicks are not great at building up a team....So I was worried we would be in trouble trying to build around Melo, which isn't easy. But Melo was over confident that his game and his superstar status would attract other stars to play with him in the big apple. But I don't blame Melo for his game.....Whatever you don't like about his game, you never like him before he came into the league. That's a different kind of hate. And I'm one of those fans that didn't like his game as an organized team player. But in street ball, Melo's game fits perfectly....
I blame Phil for being over confident and selfish as well....He also came here thinking he could turn Melo into his triangle focus player like Kobe and MJ. And how he can build a championship around Melo, so he gives him a NTC and max money. He tried to use the big apple to provide that he can build a championship without having the best players in the world. And if he turned down that kind of money, it would've been foolish on his part. He's being paid like a vet GM, to learn on a job as a rookie GM. I would take the money too. He's getting paid to learn how to manage a team. Also Phil has been giving out money to rookie coaches like they are vets, just because they are part of his triangle fraternity.
I blame Dolan for making a rookie GM (Phil) one of the highest paid GM's in the NBA. Opening the door for the huge Melo trade....similar to the huge Marbury trade.....and all the bone headed block buster trades and money he's given to players in the past, just to have a reason to increase ticket sales. Yes, I rather have an owner with an open book policy. But he also needs to be surrounded by knowledgeable NBA minds, and place them in positions to succeed....Not just big names to sell tickets.
I blame the fans and the NY media for over hyping everything....And putting so much pressure on the knicks, that each GM and owner in the past never thought a true rebuild would work in NY. This atmosphere is not the best culture for cultivating rookies and building from scratch. Everybody wants a championship in a NY minute. And myself included, since I'm a fan and I hoped we could use Boston as the model of buying a championship, using a combination of vets surrounding a star like melo, similar to Paul Pierce. I still believe that's the only way melo will win in NY.....Otherwise, there was no point in bringing him back. He's not the type of mentor you want a rookie to follow....Unless you are grooming another young gunner!
Plenty of blame to go around after another lost season....And just like every season, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. Lets hope that light is a little closer this year, now that we have a youth movement taking shape!
blkexec wrote:I blame Melo for being over confident and selfish when he forced his way to the Knicks. Eventhough we gave up mediocre players, they were bargaining chips and bench depth and the knicks are not great at building up a team....So I was worried we would be in trouble trying to build around Melo, which isn't easy. But Melo was over confident that his game and his superstar status would attract other stars to play with him in the big apple. But I don't blame Melo for his game.....Whatever you don't like about his game, you never like him before he came into the league. That's a different kind of hate. And I'm one of those fans that didn't like his game as an organized team player. But in street ball, Melo's game fits perfectly....I blame Phil for being over confident and selfish as well....He also came here thinking he could turn Melo into his triangle focus player like Kobe and MJ. And how he can build a championship around Melo, so he gives him a NTC and max money. He tried to use the big apple to provide that he can build a championship without having the best players in the world. And if he turned down that kind of money, it would've been foolish on his part. He's being paid like a vet GM, to learn on a job as a rookie GM. I would take the money too. He's getting paid to learn how to manage a team. Also Phil has been giving out money to rookie coaches like they are vets, just because they are part of his triangle fraternity.
I blame Dolan for making a rookie GM (Phil) one of the highest paid GM's in the NBA. Opening the door for the huge Melo trade....similar to the huge Marbury trade.....and all the bone headed block buster trades and money he's given to players in the past, just to have a reason to increase ticket sales. Yes, I rather have an owner with an open book policy. But he also needs to be surrounded by knowledgeable NBA minds, and place them in positions to succeed....Not just big names to sell tickets.
I blame the fans and the NY media for over hyping everything....And putting so much pressure on the knicks, that each GM and owner in the past never thought a true rebuild would work in NY. This atmosphere is not the best culture for cultivating rookies and building from scratch. Everybody wants a championship in a NY minute. And myself included, since I'm a fan and I hoped we could use Boston as the model of buying a championship, using a combination of vets surrounding a star like melo, similar to Paul Pierce. I still believe that's the only way melo will win in NY.....Otherwise, there was no point in bringing him back. He's not the type of mentor you want a rookie to follow....Unless you are grooming another young gunner!
Plenty of blame to go around after another lost season....And just like every season, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. Lets hope that light is a little closer this year, now that we have a youth movement taking shape!
Melo came to play with Amare...Amare was balling just before he got here...
