Knicks · Ricky Rubio since All-Star break (page 3)

Nalod wrote:So its assumed the underperforming Rubio would have had the same games with a new team, new players, new city and new offense that he had all that and the same results?
And........
If successful would have perhaps ruined our draft position.
And........
We'd have just 9mm of cap space next season.

Find a way to agitate yourselves and work into a frenzy to hate on phil more.

So if you have a chance to trade a worthless asset(at end of trade deadline) for a 2 year asset, you don't do it? If it's true, this was a miss.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Andrew wrote:First there were reports that the Knicks were trying to give Rose away for nothing. Was that true? Then they were asking for too much. Was that true?

Rubio is younger, cheaper, better defender, and overall is playing better than Rose this year (not just recently). Rose went AWOL, is not guaranteed to sign with Minn after this season and probably is going to want MAXish dollars from the team he does sign with....or at least 20M a year on a long term deal.

Knick fans were jumping for joy at a straight up swap (most at least).

Given all of that why do you think that it was a straight up swap. IMO Minn should have been asking for more (think draft pick) than just Rose in return for Rubio.

From what I've read, Minn fans are definitely not happy with Rubio's defense, and I think when I checked his player tracking data this year, it was not good. That said, he's still a much better PG than Rose.

much better, I seriously doubt rubio's numbers would look anything like they are now, only because his role would be entirely different here.

Moonangie wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Gotta love this BS.
As if the Knicks weren't in talks with Minnesota?????
They had interest in making the deal. Lets now pretend as if Phil and the Knicks refused to take Rubio.
It didn't happen. There was strong interest from the Knicks. Trades are not easy to make.

But one thing about Rubio. He would have been great for 2 years, but longterm I wish we will able to get a PG that can shoot from outside as well. As good a passer as Rubio is, a great team needs a better primary creator than Rubio. You look at Minnesota, they don't even make the playoffs despite having better younger talent than us, and a better coach.

Plus, lets look at this another way. So many of us wanted to tank (not me, but I've come to embrace it now). The Knicks get Rubio over Rose, and then win a few more games now, maybe say finish with 35 wins instead of 30. That's a difference in drafting 6th or 11th.

We're in a good spot in the draft, and we're in a good spot because we're not committed to Rose beyond this season, or Melo beyond 2018. We have all the opportunities in the world to rebuild a team with KP/Willy as the two starting building blocks.

I generally agree w ur posts. But this isn't BS

Crzy is a great poster albeit one immensely frustrated w Phil and not without reason

Fwiw I'm still in Phil bandwagon and think he approached this situation the right way

IMO if anyone knew Rubio could consistently play the way he has been lately (a) we would have traded and (b) more tellingly minnny would not have traded him

I'm happy for Rubio at this point. But he's been in the league for a while now and underwhelmed and despite steals I don't consider him a good defender.

Not a plus defender and very limited offensively (i.e., poor shooter). We can do better developing young talent. I like Rubio a lot, and would consider trading for him again. But I'm glad we still have a viable tank in progress.

Agreed

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Ricky Rubio would've been the best young point guard in a Knicks uniform since Mark Jackson. It's unbelievable that Phil had that offer on the table and he screwed it up. You absolutely throw in KOQ or Kuz to get that deal done.

I was saying rose and o'quinn for Rubio and everyone told me that's way too much for rubio...

What happened to Rubio can't shoot? This recent play by Rubio hasn't been seen until now. Where was he before. A few games Here and there. Sorry folk I need to see more from Rubio because his track record hasn't been all that good. We go by hind sight being 20/20 but the truth is Rubio wasn't doing this before.

He can't shoot. But his playmaking and defense would have been perfect. The only negative to trading him would have been getting closer to the playoff picture, but still missing. We probably would have won 33-35 games, and i guess in the long-run, its much more valuable if we can land a star with a top 7 pick.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:So its assumed the underperforming Rubio would have had the same games with a new team, new players, new city and new offense that he had all that and the same results?
And........
If successful would have perhaps ruined our draft position.
And........
We'd have just 9mm of cap space next season.

Find a way to agitate yourselves and work into a frenzy to hate on phil more.

So if you have a chance to trade a worthless asset(at end of trade deadline) for a 2 year asset, you don't do it? If it's true, this was a miss.

Rubio goes on a nice 20 game run where he shoots well, which is not a career make, and now its a "mess".
I know your jumping to nail phil on anything, but c'mon.
You guys killed phil for Jose's contract who makes HALF of Rubio salary.
Would you sign rubio for 14mm per this off season?
Say Jrue Holiday or Hill was available and we only had 9mm to round out our roster? Then what?
If Minny wanted to dump Rubio, does that mean they wanted to sign Rose?
Way too many questions to which we don't have answers.
Yes, I give phil the benefit of the doubt. You don't. So perhaps there is the logic. We have no hard facts to really say what happend.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Good no trade result.

Sorry, wasn't looking for a 7th or 8th seed playoff push only to get swept by Boston or Cleveland.

Keep losing.

Keep drafting well.

I'm sorry, but I think it's wrong to say Rubio would've gotten us to the playoffs. This team is broken. He may have improved is a few games, but there were only 24 games after the all-star break. We still could have tanked. This move would've been about next season and the years beyond. Instead we will lose Rose for nothing, or worse, re-sign him.

Of significance for Minnesota...does Rubio's surge have anything to do with Lavine being out of the lineup?

Pretty sure that they've had a better record without Lavine, who I know has a following on this forum...

If I'm the T-Wolves, I think about moving Lavine some point soon. I'd look to draft a SG who can play D and be effective on offense without high usage.

I see Rubio's rise as a reality check about Lavine and how team chemistry is more important than individual greatness.

WaltLongmire wrote:I posted about his performance after the trade deadline a few weeks ago.

Of significance for Minnesota...does Rubio's surge have anything to do with Lavine being out of the lineup?

Pretty sure that they've had a better record without Lavine, who I know has a following on this forum...

If I'm the T-Wolves, I think about moving Lavine some point soon. I'd look to draft a SG who can play D and be effective on offense without high usage.

I see Rubio's rise as a reality check about Lavine and how team chemistry is more important than individual greatness.

That may well be true about Lavine. I know they consider him somewhat a hybrid PG/SG and that's why Rubio was on the block, along with Kris Dunn's rise and Thibs' interest in Rose.

Yeah, I really don't like the energy Lavine and Wiggins give off on the court together. Honestly, I'd look to move both of those guys before Rubio if I were Minnie.

crzymdups wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Good no trade result.

Sorry, wasn't looking for a 7th or 8th seed playoff push only to get swept by Boston or Cleveland.

Keep losing.

Keep drafting well.

I'm sorry, but I think it's wrong to say Rubio would've gotten us to the playoffs. This team is broken. He may have improved is a few games, but there were only 24 games after the all-star break. We still could have tanked. This move would've been about next season and the years beyond. Instead we will lose Rose for nothing, or worse, re-sign him.

Rubio just isn't worth drafting 3-5 spots lower, from 5 (as of today) to 8-10.

Not in this draft.

Vmart wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

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Instead of hating on Phil we should commend Phil. Rubio's superior play has put the Wolves ahead of the Knicks in the lottery aspect. Should I say the Knicks ahead of the Wolves.

WaltLongmire wrote:I posted about his performance after the trade deadline a few weeks ago.

Of significance for Minnesota...does Rubio's surge have anything to do with Lavine being out of the lineup?

Pretty sure that they've had a better record without Lavine, who I know has a following on this forum...

If I'm the T-Wolves, I think about moving Lavine some point soon. I'd look to draft a SG who can play D and be effective on offense without high usage.

I see Rubio's rise as a reality check about Lavine and how team chemistry is more important than individual greatness.

Minny lost 7 of the last 10 games...They are losing with and without Lavine...

And just because a guy doesn't fit one team isn't a barometer on fit for another team..Ex. Bill Cartwright trade for Charles Oakley...One thing has nothing to do with the other..And I don't like Lavine...Rubio has been quarterbacking a losing situation since he came into the league as well..Which probably means nothing too..

But how does Rubio fit the triangle which usually thrives on a reliable perimeter PG shooting and not necessarily a ball dominant guard...None of these attributes you can assign to Rubio..

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

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Instead of hating on Phil we should commend Phil. Rubio's superior play has put the Wolves ahead of the Knicks in the lottery aspect. Should I say the Knicks ahead of the Wolves.

Phil is great at accidentally getting us great lottery picks. Maybe a few years from now when they're writing the biography for his time as President here it will say something like "Enabled the team to get a top 5 draft pick every year!"

I mean he could habe traded future drafty picks in order to try and win now. Thus not getting a chance to land lotto picks in case his moves didn't work out.

Golden State accidentally landed in the lottery when they landed Klay Thompson. As they traded for D-Lee believing Biendrins Lee Ellis and Curry would get them in the playoffs

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

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Instead of hating on Phil we should commend Phil. Rubio's superior play has put the Wolves ahead of the Knicks in the lottery aspect. Should I say the Knicks ahead of the Wolves.

Phil is great at accidentally getting us great lottery picks. Maybe a few years from now when they're writing the biography for his time as President here it will say something like "Enabled the team to get a top 5 draft pick every year!"

I mean he could habe traded future drafty picks in order to try and win now. Thus not getting a chance to land lotto picks in case his moves didn't work out.

Golden State accidentally landed in the lottery when they landed Klay Thompson. As they traded for D-Lee believing Biendrins Lee Ellis and Curry would get them in the playoffs

Of course. That would make him a historically bad president at the level of Isiah rather than just an ordinary bad president. The ordinary bad ones don't trade away their picks but still find themselves in the draft lottery every year.

Rose still can score at will but like Melo takes the other side of the court off too many times. That and he looks off players so he can get his. I am convinced Rubio would rather get the assist than score.

WaltLongmire wrote:I posted about his performance after the trade deadline a few weeks ago.

Of significance for Minnesota...does Rubio's surge have anything to do with Lavine being out of the lineup?

Pretty sure that they've had a better record without Lavine, who I know has a following on this forum...

If I'm the T-Wolves, I think about moving Lavine some point soon. I'd look to draft a SG who can play D and be effective on offense without high usage.

I see Rubio's rise as a reality check about Lavine and how team chemistry is more important than individual greatness.

Yes I remember those posts. Good point

Personally I'd think of moving Lavine and Wiggins. Both too cool for school for my liking. Lot more acrobatics than results.

One question though how does Lavine's absence translate. I can see more shot attempts but Rubio's game seems more efficient too lately

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/espnsteinline/status/847681668466917377

Click here to view the Tweet

Instead of hating on Phil we should commend Phil. Rubio's superior play has put the Wolves ahead of the Knicks in the lottery aspect. Should I say the Knicks ahead of the Wolves.

Phil is great at accidentally getting us great lottery picks. Maybe a few years from now when they're writing the biography for his time as President here it will say something like "Enabled the team to get a top 5 draft pick every year!"

I mean he could habe traded future drafty picks in order to try and win now. Thus not getting a chance to land lotto picks in case his moves didn't work out.

Golden State accidentally landed in the lottery when they landed Klay Thompson. As they traded for D-Lee believing Biendrins Lee Ellis and Curry would get them in the playoffs

Of course. That would make him a historically bad president at the level of Isiah rather than just an ordinary bad president. The ordinary bad ones don't trade away their picks but still find themselves in the draft lottery every year.

I sould,be happy with that. When Phil is done. We end up with 3 lotto picks who are good players. A rotation player in Willy. And maybe a rotation player out of one of these 2nd rounders. I will take that ad would the next GM. Also would have Noah and Lee as expirings.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/espnsteinline/status/847681668466917377

Click here to view the Tweet

Instead of hating on Phil we should commend Phil. Rubio's superior play has put the Wolves ahead of the Knicks in the lottery aspect. Should I say the Knicks ahead of the Wolves.

Phil is great at accidentally getting us great lottery picks. Maybe a few years from now when they're writing the biography for his time as President here it will say something like "Enabled the team to get a top 5 draft pick every year!"

I mean he could habe traded future drafty picks in order to try and win now. Thus not getting a chance to land lotto picks in case his moves didn't work out.

Golden State accidentally landed in the lottery when they landed Klay Thompson. As they traded for D-Lee believing Biendrins Lee Ellis and Curry would get them in the playoffs

Of course. That would make him a historically bad president at the level of Isiah rather than just an ordinary bad president. The ordinary bad ones don't trade away their picks but still find themselves in the draft lottery every year.

I sould,be happy with that. When Phil is done. We end up with 3 lotto picks who are good players. A rotation player in Willy. And maybe a rotation player out of one of these 2nd rounders. I will take that ad would the next GM. Also would have Noah and Lee as expirings.

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:I posted about his performance after the trade deadline a few weeks ago.

Of significance for Minnesota...does Rubio's surge have anything to do with Lavine being out of the lineup?

Pretty sure that they've had a better record without Lavine, who I know has a following on this forum...

If I'm the T-Wolves, I think about moving Lavine some point soon. I'd look to draft a SG who can play D and be effective on offense without high usage.

I see Rubio's rise as a reality check about Lavine and how team chemistry is more important than individual greatness.

Minny lost 7 of the last 10 games...They are losing with and without Lavine...

And just because a guy doesn't fit one team isn't a barometer on fit for another team..Ex. Bill Cartwright trade for Charles Oakley...One thing has nothing to do with the other..And I don't like Lavine...Rubio has been quarterbacking a losing situation since he came into the league as well..Which probably means nothing too..

But how does Rubio fit the triangle which usually thrives on a reliable perimeter PG shooting and not necessarily a ball dominant guard...None of these attributes you can assign to Rubio..

11-13 since he went down...even with the recent losing. That seems to be a significant difference.

Understand that chemistry is a strange thing. I am not sure Rubio fits the Triangle-that would be up to Jackson to figure out.

I saw the trade as a way to get some value for Rose...and let Rubio be a bridge as we developed a drafted PG.

Rubio has clearly stepped up his game since LaVine left...the surge in scoring is pretty striking given his history as an offensive player. He benefits from continued improvement by KAT, but it also seems that he has taken it upon himself to be more offensive minded.

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:So its assumed the underperforming Rubio would have had the same games with a new team, new players, new city and new offense that he had all that and the same results?
And........
If successful would have perhaps ruined our draft position.
And........
We'd have just 9mm of cap space next season.

Find a way to agitate yourselves and work into a frenzy to hate on phil more.

So if you have a chance to trade a worthless asset(at end of trade deadline) for a 2 year asset, you don't do it? If it's true, this was a miss.

Rubio goes on a nice 20 game run where he shoots well, which is not a career make, and now its a "mess".
I know your jumping to nail phil on anything, but c'mon.
You guys killed phil for Jose's contract who makes HALF of Rubio salary.
Would you sign rubio for 14mm per this off season?
Say Jrue Holiday or Hill was available and we only had 9mm to round out our roster? Then what?
If Minny wanted to dump Rubio, does that mean they wanted to sign Rose?
Way too many questions to which we don't have answers.
Yes, I give phil the benefit of the doubt. You don't. So perhaps there is the logic. We have no hard facts to really say what happend.

The logic is that any asset is better than no asset. Regardless of what Rubio could or could not do, he was worth more than an unsigned Rose. Which is what we will have. That's logic. Again, if true, that is another miss by Phil. But guess bringing up any of his bad decisions is "itching to get on him"