I think the rules of today's game favor a guy like Ball.
Just read Harden's college scouting report and it contains many of the same weaknesses people have said about Ball.
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-ha...
I think Ball has the far higher ceiling. But Fox might be better faster.
I'd be genuinely torn. Though I love Fox. I'm not gonna vote for now. Haha sorry.
ive been preaching Fox for a while now. i GET the hype of ball and i think its legit. there are just too many question marks to me (can dude hit a pull up jumper? can he finish at the rim? defense?). maybe he can - it wouldnt surprise me if he can - just wish i saw it
id rather have the sure bet in fox - we NEED defense at the PG and thats what he provides 1st. 2nd i love his speed and passing. yes his shooting is a concern (id even argue that he's a below average shooter) but that can be worked on. and hes quick and dynamic enough where he wont be a liability
crzymdups wrote:I think the rules of today's game favor a guy like Ball. Just read Harden's college scouting report and it contains many of the same weaknesses people have said about Ball.
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-ha...
I think Ball has the far higher ceiling. But Fox might be better faster.
I'd be genuinely torn. Though I love Fox. I'm not gonna vote for now. Haha sorry.
the issue is size and FTAs. There is a big discrepancy in both categories when it comes to Ball and Harden and Harden. Harden was getting to the line 6+ times a game while Ball I believe got to the line less than 3 times a game. On top of that Harden was 30 lbs more than Ball if Ball's listed weight of 190 lbs remains true. That extra size helped Harden to create space and finish through contact and we do not know if Ball can do that.
callmened wrote:ive been preaching Fox for a while now. i GET the hype of ball and i think its legit. there are just too many question marks to me (can dude hit a pull up jumper? can he finish at the rim? defense?). maybe he can - it wouldnt surprise me if he can - just wish i saw itid rather have the sure bet in fox - we NEED defense at the PG and thats what he provides 1st. 2nd i love his speed and passing. yes his shooting is a concern (id even argue that he's a below average shooter) but that can be worked on. and hes quick and dynamic enough where he wont be a liability
Fox is far from a sure bet and I think he is getting that UK boost in terms of evaluation. Can Fox hit a pull up jumper and will his defense translate to the next level?
yellowboy90 wrote:callmened wrote:ive been preaching Fox for a while now. i GET the hype of ball and i think its legit. there are just too many question marks to me (can dude hit a pull up jumper? can he finish at the rim? defense?). maybe he can - it wouldnt surprise me if he can - just wish i saw itid rather have the sure bet in fox - we NEED defense at the PG and thats what he provides 1st. 2nd i love his speed and passing. yes his shooting is a concern (id even argue that he's a below average shooter) but that can be worked on. and hes quick and dynamic enough where he wont be a liability
Fox is far from a sure bet and I think he is getting that UK boost in terms of evaluation. Can Fox hit a pull up jumper and will his defense translate to the next level?
I'm high on Fox even tho he's so skinny and his shot isn't a strength. What I like is his decision making and knowing when to turn it on. He doesn't really force things. He raised his level of play in the tournament which really was impressive.
I do think his extraordinary quickness will allow him to be effective defensively in the NBA despite his lack of strength. I think he's going to be able to improve his jumper. It looked like he just needed more work. The form wasn't bad.
yellowboy90 wrote:callmened wrote:ive been preaching Fox for a while now. i GET the hype of ball and i think its legit. there are just too many question marks to me (can dude hit a pull up jumper? can he finish at the rim? defense?). maybe he can - it wouldnt surprise me if he can - just wish i saw itid rather have the sure bet in fox - we NEED defense at the PG and thats what he provides 1st. 2nd i love his speed and passing. yes his shooting is a concern (id even argue that he's a below average shooter) but that can be worked on. and hes quick and dynamic enough where he wont be a liability
Fox is far from a sure bet and I think he is getting that UK boost in terms of evaluation. Can Fox hit a pull up jumper and will his defense translate to the next level?
Can Fox hit a pull up jumper? wide open jumper? i remain skeptical
but defense ALWAYS TRANSLATES. dude is a "Fox-Hound"! on defense
I voted Ball, i think he will be better but it may take longer. The stuff about his dad is just noise. NY media will chew him up ans spit out the remains in a NY minute
We should probably start looking at Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith. We ain't getting Fox or Ball at this point.
crzymdups wrote:We should probably start looking at Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith. We ain't getting Fox or Ball at this point.
i have a feeling ntilkina will be our pick. Lets face it we are gonna win a few games and teams like philly and orlando will do everything they can to lose. By the way i like ntilikina but i would rather have the other two
StarksEwing1 wrote:crzymdups wrote:We should probably start looking at Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith. We ain't getting Fox or Ball at this point.
i have a feeling ntilkina will be our pick. Lets face it we are gonna win a few games and teams like philly and orlando will do everything they can to lose. By the way i like ntilikina but i would rather have the other two
I'm actually really intrigued by Frank. I'd be ok taking him. But I feel he could be a major project. But if we draft like 7th or 8th I wouldn't mind taking a long look at him.
crzymdups wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:crzymdups wrote:We should probably start looking at Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith. We ain't getting Fox or Ball at this point.
i have a feeling ntilkina will be our pick. Lets face it we are gonna win a few games and teams like philly and orlando will do everything they can to lose. By the way i like ntilikina but i would rather have the other two
I'm actually really intrigued by Frank. I'd be ok taking him. But I feel he could be a major project. But if we draft like 7th or 8th I wouldn't mind taking a long look at him.
its very hard to tell who will succeed. I remember when we drafted KP they said it would take 4 years for him just to start to show something and instead he was the best rookie besides Towns. So who knows. Im just very scared because we have been burned many times before. As much as i wanted the young guys to have their shot like 20 games ago i feel now we are gonna drop to like 9 or 10
StarksEwing1 wrote:crzymdups wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:crzymdups wrote:We should probably start looking at Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith. We ain't getting Fox or Ball at this point.
i have a feeling ntilkina will be our pick. Lets face it we are gonna win a few games and teams like philly and orlando will do everything they can to lose. By the way i like ntilikina but i would rather have the other two
I'm actually really intrigued by Frank. I'd be ok taking him. But I feel he could be a major project. But if we draft like 7th or 8th I wouldn't mind taking a long look at him.
its very hard to tell who will succeed. I remember when we drafted KP they said it would take 4 years for him just to start to show something and instead he was the best rookie besides Towns. So who knows. Im just very scared because we have been burned many times before. As much as i wanted the young guys to have their shot like 20 games ago i feel now we are gonna drop to like 9 or 10
Yeah I think we'll be somewhere 6-10. My dreams of jumping up to the top 3 are dead, but we can still get a good prospect.
crzymdups wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:crzymdups wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:crzymdups wrote:We should probably start looking at Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith. We ain't getting Fox or Ball at this point.
i have a feeling ntilkina will be our pick. Lets face it we are gonna win a few games and teams like philly and orlando will do everything they can to lose. By the way i like ntilikina but i would rather have the other two
I'm actually really intrigued by Frank. I'd be ok taking him. But I feel he could be a major project. But if we draft like 7th or 8th I wouldn't mind taking a long look at him.
its very hard to tell who will succeed. I remember when we drafted KP they said it would take 4 years for him just to start to show something and instead he was the best rookie besides Towns. So who knows. Im just very scared because we have been burned many times before. As much as i wanted the young guys to have their shot like 20 games ago i feel now we are gonna drop to like 9 or 10
Yeah I think we'll be somewhere 6-10. My dreams of jumping up to the top 3 are dead, but we can still get a good prospect.
i actually never expected to be in top 3 but i wanted 4-6 badly
Frankie is the youngest (still 18) of all the youngsters in this draft -- he is still a young colt with skinny legs and frame but in 2-3 years he will be a legit player in this league (maybe even a star).
He is already an outstanding shooter with a very nice stroke and is considered an outstanding defender even given his youth / lack of strength.
What I like about him is he is playing with vets and learning the game the right way (a team game).
He is very possibly going to a Knick target with our pick.
People are overreacting to one bad game by Ball in the tournament that happened to be against Fox. That one game shouldn't override everything that happened before then. While there definitely are some red flags in Ball's game he's still a safer bet with a higher ceiling than Fox.
VCoug wrote:People are overreacting to one bad game by Ball in the tournament that happened to be against Fox. That one game shouldn't override everything that happened before then. While there definitely are some red flags in Ball's game he's still a safer bet with a higher ceiling than Fox.
It was two games. Ball looked athletically overwhelmed against Fox defensively twice. I'm not sure if I'm overreacting, but the eye test doesn't paint a flattering picture about Ball's athletic abilities at the next level. The combines could be key, if he decides to participate.
BigDaddyG wrote:VCoug wrote:People are overreacting to one bad game by Ball in the tournament that happened to be against Fox. That one game shouldn't override everything that happened before then. While there definitely are some red flags in Ball's game he's still a safer bet with a higher ceiling than Fox.
It was two games. Ball looked athletically overwhelmed against Fox defensively twice. I'm not sure if I'm overreacting, but the eye test doesn't paint a flattering picture about Ball's athletic abilities at the next level. The combines could be key, if he decides to participate.
I feel like the top 5 or 10 guys completely skip the combine at this point.
That said, I agree that people might be making too much of one matchup with Fox (over two games). Some guys just have dudes who toast them all the time. One weird example - Dwight Howard could never score on or defend Andrea Bargnani.
