BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:blkexec wrote:I think one skill most people over look is IQ. To be honest, I don't know too much about any of these guys. I did watch Ball in his last game, and his defense didn't jump out at me. But his IQ did, and his ability to get others involved and score was great. He also makes the game look very easy out there. So if I was a GM, and given I only seen Ball play one game (which isn't fare to the others, I understand)....I would take Ball.....As we get closer to the draft, I will do some research on the other guys. But Ball and Jackson seem to fill a direct need.....Something we've been lacking for years.
IQ and Defense.
If Fultz is the new NBA westbrook or rose type of guard, well that's an easy decision for me. We already saw how Rose fits into our triangle system. And I'm not the type to draft based on system, but a scoring point guard doesn't fill the top two needs for me.....
IQ and Defense.
I'll bring up the same thing with ball that I brought up with Russell last year. Feel and IQ are nice and I'm sure ball will be a good player. But nearly all of the superstar players in this league have that extra burst that separate s them from the rest. The Ball/Kidd comparison is OK, but Kidd was also super fast and strong for his position. He could impose his will physical against an opponent. Do you get that sense watching ball. That position is he'll. Think of guys like Steve Smith, Allan Houston, Doug Christie, etc. who couldn't hand the position athletically when they were placed their early in their careers. These guys were solid to great athletes in their own rights, but they had to moves to SG full-time. I'm not saying Ball won't be good. But the transformational tag some guys give him is overblown.
that tag is based on his ability to improve the play of those around him. Is there another player in the draft that appears to have the positive impact on his teammates and leadership that Ball does?
Didn't we say the same thing about Kyle Anderson a few years ago?
That does not ring a bell at all. In fact I had to look up who Kyle Anderson was
I think that Josh Jackson and Jayson Tatum are the two best players in the draft (in that order) but positional value and hype forced me to take Fultz no.1 overall.
Nalod has no favorites and thus won't get all angry and what not if my dream does not come to fruition.
I was so pleased when KP fell to us and had to convince a few friends that it was a great thing!!!!
This was from those despondent that we had fallen to 4th. As we know, KP if done over would be taken 2nd!
This is not blind faith in Phil and Gaines, but at the same time they are professionals and will go thru a very detailed process when making the pick.
Its an imperfect science so to think "I, the Fan" knows better is not my thing. They get only one chance to make one pick at a time.
I say pick the best player available. Period.
Nalod wrote:Nalod has no favorites and thus won't get all angry and what not if my dream does not come to fruition.
I was so pleased when KP fell to us and had to convince a few friends that it was a great thing!!!!
This was from those despondent that we had fallen to 4th. As we know, KP if done over would be taken 2nd!
This is not blind faith in Phil and Gaines, but at the same time they are professionals and will go thru a very detailed process when making the pick.
Its an imperfect science so to think "I, the Fan" knows better is not my thing. They get only one chance to make one pick at a time.
I say pick the best player available. Period.
When you have so many holes like we have, BPA is the only strategy. It only gets complicated if a team has only one glaring need and the pick doesn't fit that need. I believe Philly had this issue, and still took the BPA, and so far the jury is still out. But for us, yes....that's the only play we have......Should be an easy draft selection for Phil. Where he will make his money, will be picks 2 and 3.
nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:I think one skill most people over look is IQ. To be honest, I don't know too much about any of these guys. I did watch Ball in his last game, and his defense didn't jump out at me. But his IQ did, and his ability to get others involved and score was great. He also makes the game look very easy out there. So if I was a GM, and given I only seen Ball play one game (which isn't fare to the others, I understand)....I would take Ball.....As we get closer to the draft, I will do some research on the other guys. But Ball and Jackson seem to fill a direct need.....Something we've been lacking for years.
IQ and Defense.
If Fultz is the new NBA westbrook or rose type of guard, well that's an easy decision for me. We already saw how Rose fits into our triangle system. And I'm not the type to draft based on system, but a scoring point guard doesn't fill the top two needs for me.....
IQ and Defense.
I wouldn't compare anyone to Rose. Rose so disappointed me. He showed ZERO desire to buy into the system and I just don't think Fultz is that kind of player. True he is more of a SG than a pure PG but in the Triangle you actually WANT Combo guards. You want simple and smart PG decisions and not Ball Dominant, make every decision for the team style PG's. Fultz would be in the MJ/Kobe role and not the role Baker is playing. Baker is doing Fisher right now. In the Triangle Fultz would be in the Attack Guard Role and playing on the Pinch Post side of the floor with all the space. You still need passing skills in that role so a big Combo guard is ideal.
I'm sick of combo guards. Rose is a combo guard. Looks to score first lead 2nd or not at all. We need a leader/floor general first & foremost. If Ball starts hitting 3's then we are golden.
gunsnewing wrote:nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:I think one skill most people over look is IQ. To be honest, I don't know too much about any of these guys. I did watch Ball in his last game, and his defense didn't jump out at me. But his IQ did, and his ability to get others involved and score was great. He also makes the game look very easy out there. So if I was a GM, and given I only seen Ball play one game (which isn't fare to the others, I understand)....I would take Ball.....As we get closer to the draft, I will do some research on the other guys. But Ball and Jackson seem to fill a direct need.....Something we've been lacking for years.
IQ and Defense.
If Fultz is the new NBA westbrook or rose type of guard, well that's an easy decision for me. We already saw how Rose fits into our triangle system. And I'm not the type to draft based on system, but a scoring point guard doesn't fill the top two needs for me.....
IQ and Defense.
I wouldn't compare anyone to Rose. Rose so disappointed me. He showed ZERO desire to buy into the system and I just don't think Fultz is that kind of player. True he is more of a SG than a pure PG but in the Triangle you actually WANT Combo guards. You want simple and smart PG decisions and not Ball Dominant, make every decision for the team style PG's. Fultz would be in the MJ/Kobe role and not the role Baker is playing. Baker is doing Fisher right now. In the Triangle Fultz would be in the Attack Guard Role and playing on the Pinch Post side of the floor with all the space. You still need passing skills in that role so a big Combo guard is ideal.
I'm sick of combo guards. Rose is a combo guard. Looks to score first lead 2nd or not at all. We need a leader/floor general first & foremost. If Ball starts hitting 3's then we are golden.
An argument can be made that the elite guards in the league are all Combo-Guards...Westbrook, Harden, Thomas, Kyrie, Steph and Lillard are all shoot first guards who still make their teammates better...
gunsnewing wrote:nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:I think one skill most people over look is IQ. To be honest, I don't know too much about any of these guys. I did watch Ball in his last game, and his defense didn't jump out at me. But his IQ did, and his ability to get others involved and score was great. He also makes the game look very easy out there. So if I was a GM, and given I only seen Ball play one game (which isn't fare to the others, I understand)....I would take Ball.....As we get closer to the draft, I will do some research on the other guys. But Ball and Jackson seem to fill a direct need.....Something we've been lacking for years.
IQ and Defense.
If Fultz is the new NBA westbrook or rose type of guard, well that's an easy decision for me. We already saw how Rose fits into our triangle system. And I'm not the type to draft based on system, but a scoring point guard doesn't fill the top two needs for me.....
IQ and Defense.
I wouldn't compare anyone to Rose. Rose so disappointed me. He showed ZERO desire to buy into the system and I just don't think Fultz is that kind of player. True he is more of a SG than a pure PG but in the Triangle you actually WANT Combo guards. You want simple and smart PG decisions and not Ball Dominant, make every decision for the team style PG's. Fultz would be in the MJ/Kobe role and not the role Baker is playing. Baker is doing Fisher right now. In the Triangle Fultz would be in the Attack Guard Role and playing on the Pinch Post side of the floor with all the space. You still need passing skills in that role so a big Combo guard is ideal.
I'm sick of combo guards. Rose is a combo guard. Looks to score first lead 2nd or not at all. We need a leader/floor general first & foremost. If Ball starts hitting 3's then we are golden.
Fultz has a lower turnover ratio and higher assist percentage than ball, for what it's as worth. Fultz is a willing passer.
BRIGGS wrote:I'm all in on Lonzo. Haven't seen a player who makes players better like this in many years. He's also an nba range 3 point shooter rebounds defends at 6-6 from the pg slot I'm well aware of the other good players but this may be a transcending player who controls the flow of the game
You really can't deny the confidence he has in his game. I think he would be the guy i'd pick at #1 but i really really like J.Jackson as well. My problem with L.Ball is how his dad and everything New York will get along. The New York media will be all over this but it wouldn't matter to me cause Lonzo has everything i'd want in a PG.
I feel like Lonzo Ball is destined to be on the Lakers.
Like I could see Magic Johnson announcing it was time for Showtime 2 at the lottery when the Lakers get the #1 pick.
gunsnewing wrote:I'm sick of combo guards. Rose is a combo guard. Looks to score first lead 2nd or not at all. We need a leader/floor general first & foremost. If Ball starts hitting 3's then we are golden.
Knicks simply need wings who can defend at an elite level with some offensive upside ( i.e. ability to hit a three point shot at least at a league average rate) to start and can play actual team basketball. If a guys fundamentals are good, he can morph into a distributor or learn better how to distribute the ball in the right situation.
Do I think the Knicks need a "classic point guard"? No
If the Knicks can get one at 'value' at some point, should they try to get one? Sure
Knicks just need to pick the guy they feel will succeed given their draft slot, without consideration into positional value UNLESS, it operates as a tie breaker between two players. If the Knicks pick 8th and like two players about the same, take the wing over the PF. Take the center over the PG. Worry about fit later, just amass value and talent.
EnySpree wrote:I see Fultz as a shooting guard. He didn't impress me at all with his ball handling or court vision. I see Eric Gordon. That's not a diss... before he got hurt he was a 20pt a Game scorer. He's a 15 a game guy now.I voted Josh Jackson. Hard to vote against him at #1. With that said, the Knicks could end up with the 3rd-5th pick... we are in fantastic position
If we finish 6th in the standing we can either get into the top 3 or we get 6th or worse. Only the first 3 positions are picked by lottery. So we will never get 4th or 5th slots. Look at the table on this link.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_draf...
The only way to get into the top 3 spots is x balls are 6 and 4-x are higher in the draw.[6,7,8,9], [6,6,7,9], [6,6,6,6] and so on.
For draws 2 and 3 repeat winners are ignored.
If three teams with worse picks than sixth get into the top 3 we would pick 9th.
In any case 2-5 of the teams ahead of us will finish ahead of us. So we will never get picks 4-5.
meloshouldgo wrote:EnySpree wrote:I see Fultz as a shooting guard. He didn't impress me at all with his ball handling or court vision. I see Eric Gordon. That's not a diss... before he got hurt he was a 20pt a Game scorer. He's a 15 a game guy now.I voted Josh Jackson. Hard to vote against him at #1. With that said, the Knicks could end up with the 3rd-5th pick... we are in fantastic position
If we finish 6th in the standing we can either get into the top 3 or we get 6th or worse. Only the first 3 positions are picked by lottery. So we will never get 4th or 5th slots. Look at the table on this link.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_draf...
The only way to get into the top 3 spots is x balls are 6 and 4-x are higher in the draw.[6,7,8,9], [6,6,7,9], [6,6,6,6] and so on.
For draws 2 and 3 repeat winners are ignored.
If three teams with worse picks than sixth get into the top 3 we would pick 9th.
In any case 2-5 of the teams ahead of us will finish ahead of us. So we will never get picks 4-5.
Basically it's 1,2,3,6,7,8,9.
I like Ball's style of play. He has a high BBall IQ. He is the type of PG needed for the Knicks.
I also like Tatum.
Haven't seen enough of the players to make a pick. Would like Phil to draft a two way PG, high IQ, someone who would be a good fit with KP. Too many PGs over the years who were mostly mediocre at best. Would like to see that position sorted out. KP and a quality PG will do more to recruit FAs than any pitch from mgmt.
Uptown wrote:Its close...Ball's IQ is off the charts for an 18 yr old...Makes his teammates better, Smooth and always under control, changes gears and runs the offense similar to Kidd. He does have range but what concerns me about him is the defensive side of the ball. UCLA was not a good defensive team and he played out at the top. He didn't offer a whole lot of resistance when guarding Fultz and Fox who scored on him quite a bit....Fultz is the prototypical Lead Guard in todays NBA. He's not a pure pg like Ball, but other than Paul, what elite PGS in the league are pure? Lillard, Westbrook, Harden and Thomas are all shoot first lead guards who are willing passers and that's the style of ball Fultz plays. He doesn't have the vision like Ball but he's a better defender, and athlete. Its a close call....But theres something special about Ball!!!
+1
At 6-8 it will be between Monk and Frank imo.
....would anyone pony up next years pick for an additional pick in this draft or to move up?
NardDogNation wrote:....would anyone pony up next years pick for an additional pick in this draft or to move up?
I wouldn't because we have to many needs to address. If anything, I'd consider trading down for more picks.
It depends on what the team need .. example: if Nets win the first pick plus Boston goes to the ECF .. Boston will not need a rookie PG for next 2 season to develop they may select SG/SF Jackson with the first pick, and resign Thomas as their franchise player.
Philly needs the best PG in the draft .. Ball or Fultz
Phoenix needs a double-double big-man out the draft
Lakers selected Phil Jackson's so-call best college player the last 2 years .. this year will be Magic Johnson call
BigDaddyG wrote:NardDogNation wrote:....would anyone pony up next years pick for an additional pick in this draft or to move up?
I wouldn't because we have to many needs to address. If anything, I'd consider trading down for more picks.
How did our 4 rookies and 2nd season star look this season?
