Knicks · face it, PHIL is done and he has officially matched I. Thomas for most inept leader in franchise history (page 4)
knicks1248 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Phil has made some mistakes for sure. Most GM's do. He also has acquired several NBA players for very little.Willy, Baker, Randle, Kuz. KOQ was a good signing. Holiday was a good acquisition in the Rose deal. Rose was a low risk move as long as he is NOT resigned, I have no issue with trying to give Melo pieces to win with. It didn't work and now Phil is saying, I am not doing that again.
IT compounded his mistakes and caused years of damage. The only guys you can say that happened with Phil is Melo and Noah. Noah has 3 more years on his contract. Maybe, just maybe he gets moved this summer too. I am sure PJax will consider it. Melo will be traded.
There is limited long term damage. Picks are owned not owed and cap space is available and more is in reach.
IMO, if you did not know any of the names, just the facts, he would probably get a C+, B- for his tenure so far. IMO. Isiah was a F.
It took walsh a yr 1/2 to unload Isaiah's BS contracts . The only major damage he caused was with the time he was running things, those 4 yrs were his tenure, dont act like he crippled the franchise for yrs upon yrs after he left/fired. Ever since then, we have had some cap space every other yr.
I know time flies, but it's been 10 yrs (3 GMs/presidents) since Isaiah and phil has lasted longer than all of them, and he is the only one without at least 1 playoff appearance, with 25 to 30 mill + a top 5 pick, in 2 straight off seasons..Wake up!!
IT traded all the picks for Eddy Curry. Eddy Freakin Curry! Sorry, IT did more to ruin things than anyone else. Walsh did a great job in rebuilding UNTIL he traded for Melo. He was overruled so he quit. Grunwald got us Bargnani. Phil has cleaned it up except for Melo. One last piece to take out.
Phil asked Melo if he was going to stay last summer. Melo said yes. Phil tried to give him a team that would compete. Problem is Melo didn't show up. Rose went AWOL and Noah was hurt.
This year, Phil is not asking. The answer is we are rebuilding, with or without you. Be smart and so somewhere where you can go for a ring.
This is the 2nd year with a pick and with some money if he can move Melo. Not much space otherwise.
Vmart wrote:Uptown wrote:Vmart wrote:knicks1248 wrote:wargames wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:wargames wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Gudris wrote:I support Phil 100%, all he said was valid, just media make it big deal
Phil is 100% correct that the players he brought in are lousy.And that Melo would be better somewhere else
Yeah the players he brought here would be better off somewhere else. Jeez.We're in a rebuild. If they care about winning yeah they should go somewhere else
they usually do a win
Grant-playoffs
THJ-playoffs
JR-playoffs
shump-playoffs
Lopez-playoffs
You see it's not what Phil says, it's how he says it, and when he says it that makes all the difference in the world,What does that say about Melo? Those guys played with Melo no playoffs. They leave and playoffs. If Melo is your best player then it's on him because other players team seem to integrate former Knicks and win. Some just teams have a lot more talent also but it's not what the Knicks of Phil was given.
Correction...What does this say about this franchise?! Melo was a constant playoff participant until he joined this dysfunctional franchise. Grant and Lopez are playing with Wade (3x champ) and Rondo (1x champ) and a franchise that is always a playoff participant, JR and Shump are playing with Lebron and THJ is playing for a franchise that has been to 10 straight playoffs...
Wait let's correct this Melo made the playoffs with the Knicks. Let's be fair to him. The thing is you want to make the playoffs you can make the playoffs. Any team can make the playoffs and disappear the next year. What the Knicks need is sustained winning and for that we need better talent then Melo who is aging and the Knicks need a youth movement.
Melo can win but you need a A1 supreme talent to make it a go. Melo get paid like a supreme talent which I blame Phil for by the way. I was in favor of Letting Melo walk. That ship has sailed. But for the sake of the future must get back talent in form of picks and young players for Melo which helps the future. Keeping Melo around doesn't do anything for the near future we aren't going to win and that is a given.
No S***. I agree that the Knicks need sustained winning and a complete rebuild. I've been on the bandwagon for some time. The fact that I criticize phil because he's done a S*** job and does not equal me being a Melo lover. Honestly, I think phil, Melo and Hornacek need to go...
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Phil has made some mistakes for sure. Most GM's do. He also has acquired several NBA players for very little.Willy, Baker, Randle, Kuz. KOQ was a good signing. Holiday was a good acquisition in the Rose deal. Rose was a low risk move as long as he is NOT resigned, I have no issue with trying to give Melo pieces to win with. It didn't work and now Phil is saying, I am not doing that again.
IT compounded his mistakes and caused years of damage. The only guys you can say that happened with Phil is Melo and Noah. Noah has 3 more years on his contract. Maybe, just maybe he gets moved this summer too. I am sure PJax will consider it. Melo will be traded.
There is limited long term damage. Picks are owned not owed and cap space is available and more is in reach.
IMO, if you did not know any of the names, just the facts, he would probably get a C+, B- for his tenure so far. IMO. Isiah was a F.
It took walsh a yr 1/2 to unload Isaiah's BS contracts . The only major damage he caused was with the time he was running things, those 4 yrs were his tenure, dont act like he crippled the franchise for yrs upon yrs after he left/fired. Ever since then, we have had some cap space every other yr.
I know time flies, but it's been 10 yrs (3 GMs/presidents) since Isaiah and phil has lasted longer than all of them, and he is the only one without at least 1 playoff appearance, with 25 to 30 mill + a top 5 pick, in 2 straight off seasons..Wake up!!
IT traded all the picks for Eddy Curry. Eddy Freakin Curry! Sorry, IT did more to ruin things than anyone else. Walsh did a great job in rebuilding UNTIL he traded for Melo. He was overruled so he quit. Grunwald got us Bargnani. Phil has cleaned it up except for Melo. One last piece to take out.
Phil asked Melo if he was going to stay last summer. Melo said yes. Phil tried to give him a team that would compete. Problem is Melo didn't show up. Rose went AWOL and Noah was hurt.
This year, Phil is not asking. The answer is we are rebuilding, with or without you. Be smart and so somewhere where you can go for a ring.
This is the 2nd year with a pick and with some money if he can move Melo. Not much space otherwise.
So your idea of rebuilding is to have 4 or 5 yrs of lottery seasons and then build a core. Your own prized draft pick is already sick of the dysfunction and wants no part of it and you may have to trade him.
3 straight rosters build from the ground up, and your still thinking we haven't been rebuilding.. Maybe if he didnt have the flexability, he could keep a core of players together for more than a few months
Uptown wrote:maybe but one of those trio MUST go if the other two are to have a chance, and that odd man out is Melo. We arent winning around him and if you are NOT winning his presence is a big negative as we have seen. Melo goes this offseason. I am 100% sure that if we dont see some considerable uptick in how things go next year Phil and Jeff are both gone as well.Vmart wrote:Uptown wrote:Vmart wrote:knicks1248 wrote:wargames wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:wargames wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Gudris wrote:I support Phil 100%, all he said was valid, just media make it big deal
Phil is 100% correct that the players he brought in are lousy.And that Melo would be better somewhere else
Yeah the players he brought here would be better off somewhere else. Jeez.We're in a rebuild. If they care about winning yeah they should go somewhere else
they usually do a win
Grant-playoffs
THJ-playoffs
JR-playoffs
shump-playoffs
Lopez-playoffs
You see it's not what Phil says, it's how he says it, and when he says it that makes all the difference in the world,What does that say about Melo? Those guys played with Melo no playoffs. They leave and playoffs. If Melo is your best player then it's on him because other players team seem to integrate former Knicks and win. Some just teams have a lot more talent also but it's not what the Knicks of Phil was given.
Correction...What does this say about this franchise?! Melo was a constant playoff participant until he joined this dysfunctional franchise. Grant and Lopez are playing with Wade (3x champ) and Rondo (1x champ) and a franchise that is always a playoff participant, JR and Shump are playing with Lebron and THJ is playing for a franchise that has been to 10 straight playoffs...
Wait let's correct this Melo made the playoffs with the Knicks. Let's be fair to him. The thing is you want to make the playoffs you can make the playoffs. Any team can make the playoffs and disappear the next year. What the Knicks need is sustained winning and for that we need better talent then Melo who is aging and the Knicks need a youth movement.
Melo can win but you need a A1 supreme talent to make it a go. Melo get paid like a supreme talent which I blame Phil for by the way. I was in favor of Letting Melo walk. That ship has sailed. But for the sake of the future must get back talent in form of picks and young players for Melo which helps the future. Keeping Melo around doesn't do anything for the near future we aren't going to win and that is a given.
No S***. I agree that the Knicks need sustained winning and a complete rebuild. I've been on the bandwagon for some time. The fact that I criticize phil because he's done a S*** job and does not equal me being a Melo lover. Honestly, I think phil, Melo and Hornacek need to go...
knicks1248 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Phil has made some mistakes for sure. Most GM's do. He also has acquired several NBA players for very little.Willy, Baker, Randle, Kuz. KOQ was a good signing. Holiday was a good acquisition in the Rose deal. Rose was a low risk move as long as he is NOT resigned, I have no issue with trying to give Melo pieces to win with. It didn't work and now Phil is saying, I am not doing that again.
IT compounded his mistakes and caused years of damage. The only guys you can say that happened with Phil is Melo and Noah. Noah has 3 more years on his contract. Maybe, just maybe he gets moved this summer too. I am sure PJax will consider it. Melo will be traded.
There is limited long term damage. Picks are owned not owed and cap space is available and more is in reach.
IMO, if you did not know any of the names, just the facts, he would probably get a C+, B- for his tenure so far. IMO. Isiah was a F.
It took walsh a yr 1/2 to unload Isaiah's BS contracts . The only major damage he caused was with the time he was running things, those 4 yrs were his tenure, dont act like he crippled the franchise for yrs upon yrs after he left/fired. Ever since then, we have had some cap space every other yr.
I know time flies, but it's been 10 yrs (3 GMs/presidents) since Isaiah and phil has lasted longer than all of them, and he is the only one without at least 1 playoff appearance, with 25 to 30 mill + a top 5 pick, in 2 straight off seasons..Wake up!!
knicks1248 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Phil has made some mistakes for sure. Most GM's do. He also has acquired several NBA players for very little.Willy, Baker, Randle, Kuz. KOQ was a good signing. Holiday was a good acquisition in the Rose deal. Rose was a low risk move as long as he is NOT resigned, I have no issue with trying to give Melo pieces to win with. It didn't work and now Phil is saying, I am not doing that again.
IT compounded his mistakes and caused years of damage. The only guys you can say that happened with Phil is Melo and Noah. Noah has 3 more years on his contract. Maybe, just maybe he gets moved this summer too. I am sure PJax will consider it. Melo will be traded.
There is limited long term damage. Picks are owned not owed and cap space is available and more is in reach.
IMO, if you did not know any of the names, just the facts, he would probably get a C+, B- for his tenure so far. IMO. Isiah was a F.
It took walsh a yr 1/2 to unload Isaiah's BS contracts . The only major damage he caused was with the time he was running things, those 4 yrs were his tenure, dont act like he crippled the franchise for yrs upon yrs after he left/fired. Ever since then, we have had some cap space every other yr.
I know time flies, but it's been 10 yrs (3 GMs/presidents) since Isaiah and phil has lasted longer than all of them, and he is the only one without at least 1 playoff appearance, with 25 to 30 mill + a top 5 pick, in 2 straight off seasons..Wake up!!
IT traded all the picks for Eddy Curry. Eddy Freakin Curry! Sorry, IT did more to ruin things than anyone else. Walsh did a great job in rebuilding UNTIL he traded for Melo. He was overruled so he quit. Grunwald got us Bargnani. Phil has cleaned it up except for Melo. One last piece to take out.
Phil asked Melo if he was going to stay last summer. Melo said yes. Phil tried to give him a team that would compete. Problem is Melo didn't show up. Rose went AWOL and Noah was hurt.
This year, Phil is not asking. The answer is we are rebuilding, with or without you. Be smart and so somewhere where you can go for a ring.
This is the 2nd year with a pick and with some money if he can move Melo. Not much space otherwise.
So your idea of rebuilding is to have 4 or 5 yrs of lottery seasons and then build a core. Your own prized draft pick is already sick of the dysfunction and wants no part of it and you may have to trade him.
3 straight rosters build from the ground up, and your still thinking we haven't been rebuilding.. Maybe if he didnt have the flexability, he could keep a core of players together for more than a few months
This past season was not a rebuild. IT was a try to appease MELO and get some players that can maybe work. Rose and Noah are both talented and if things go just right, they could have a magical season. It didn't happen. Honestly, I don't think Rose and Melo even get along. It was a bad mix. Phil's fault? I guess but he was trying to let Melo win and lead. Didn't happen because Melo can't do that.
Besides they did not even have a pick last year! How do you rebuild that way? They gambled on some deals and signings. Lee worked, Noah didn't. Rose didn't. Willy did. Baker did. Holiday did.
Now, its rebuild. He as much said so, when saying it will be 2 years before they compete for a title. 3 picks this time. Hopefully a starter and 2 bench guys who can grow over the next few years. Clear out Rose and Melo and use the space for a few "glue" guys. Ball movers who defend and have a high basketball IQ. Boom, the culture is changed.
The guys to build around are:
KP - the foundation 1
Willy - the foundation 2
Holiday - solid 2 way
BAker - potential to be a glue guy
Lee - solid
Draft picks this year - hopefully, a 1 and 3 and a defensive big.
KOQ is a solid piece and I would keep him but he may get something back, so explore that.
Plumlee - good guy off the bench.
Randle - undecided
Kuz - Solid bball player, Needs help on D and more strength. Good BBall IQ.
Noah - if he wants to stay, ok but they should TRY to move him. Unlikely but if he stays its fine. Vet leadership along with Lee and potential FA's.