There is no reason to keep Lee in NY when he can possibly get NY a 1st. That pkg could possibly even get a 2nd rd pick. I really think O'Quinn have late 1st rd value but he might be underrated to a lot of GMs.
The teams I think the Knicks should look at are Indy, Milwaukee, OKC, and the Jazz.
Indy may push to keep George and try to bolster their SG spot and back up Center.
Milwaukee is on the brink of something great but they too could use a shooter off the bench. They would not need O'quinn so that could leave him available to trade to someone else.
OKC really needs shooting and although they have a young gun Lee has the rep for being a defender and would be someone Westbrook might trust. It also gives them the ability to move Victor to a 6th man role and give them a creator for when Russel rests.
The Jazz are a team that has a hard time attracting FAs and they may feel they want to show Hayward that they are willing to go all in. I know they are missing Burks but they can't depend on him being healthy.
not sure its the smart thing. I think KOQ is a nice player, took a step forward and will have some value to several teams. No doubt he can fetch a late #1. Lee is on a longer bigger deal and is exactly the kind of vet we want to keep. Moves the ball, plays defense, can shoot.. Lee IMO is a keeper. Unless he's said I want out I am not looking to deal him. Especially if we draft a young guard I Lee around.
fishmike wrote:not sure its the smart thing. I think KOQ is a nice player, took a step forward and will have some value to several teams. No doubt he can fetch a late #1. Lee is on a longer bigger deal and is exactly the kind of vet we want to keep. Moves the ball, plays defense, can shoot.. Lee IMO is a keeper. Unless he's said I want out I am not looking to deal him. Especially if we draft a young guard I Lee around.
It wouldn't be horrible to keep Lee but I think the Knicks are going into what could be a long rebuild and in that situation maybe Lance and Noah are the two guys you keep. I like O'Quinn as well but the Knicks have too many centers and Noah can't be moved.
fishmike wrote:not sure its the smart thing. I think KOQ is a nice player, took a step forward and will have some value to several teams. No doubt he can fetch a late #1. Lee is on a longer bigger deal and is exactly the kind of vet we want to keep. Moves the ball, plays defense, can shoot.. Lee IMO is a keeper. Unless he's said I want out I am not looking to deal him. Especially if we draft a young guard I Lee around.
You think Lee plays defense? Okay, lets say he is how much longer do you think he can be a good defender.
A rebuild is not about just getting younger. You need vets to blend in. Someone has to set the example. Lee and KOQ are good vets to have around
EnySpree wrote:A rebuild is not about just getting younger. You need vets to blend in. Someone has to set the example. Lee and KOQ are good vets to have around
KOQ has one year on his contract and how many Vets do you need? Noah, Lance, and Sasha are enough. Also, just go get a cheaper vet to set the example.
yellowboy90 wrote:EnySpree wrote:A rebuild is not about just getting younger. You need vets to blend in. Someone has to set the example. Lee and KOQ are good vets to have around
KOQ has one year on his contract and how many Vets do you need? Noah, Lance, and Sasha are enough. Also, just go get a cheaper vet to set the example.
You need contributing vets... I'm all for trading guys if it makes sense. I'm just saying
yellowboy90 wrote:
There is no reason to keep Lee in NY when he can possibly get NY a 1st. That pkg could possibly even get a 2nd rd pick. I really think O'Quinn have late 1st rd value but he might be underrated to a lot of GMs.The teams I think the Knicks should look at are Indy, Milwaukee, OKC, and the Jazz.
Indy may push to keep George and try to bolster their SG spot and back up Center.
Milwaukee is on the brink of something great but they too could use a shooter off the bench. They would not need O'quinn so that could leave him available to trade to someone else.
OKC really needs shooting and although they have a young gun Lee has the rep for being a defender and would be someone Westbrook might trust. It also gives them the ability to move Victor to a 6th man role and give them a creator for when Russel rests.
The Jazz are a team that has a hard time attracting FAs and they may feel they want to show Hayward that they are willing to go all in. I know they are missing Burks but they can't depend on him being healthy.
Couldn't agree more...If we are in a true rebuild, why not trade a chip to get an additional 1st rounder in a deep draft? Lee is expendable to me, he's a nice piece on a winning team. We already have enough vets on this team moving forward: Noah (he ain't going nowhere for a while) and Lance.
However, I do not believe we are in a true rebuild. I feel like phil will continue with one foot on the rebuild side and the other on trying to win now side. Generally, this isn't a good strategy but its the one I believe phil will follow....
I can see the Knicks making that kind of move. It really will depend on other teams looking for affordable vet depth. Teams will be calling to probe what they can get from the Knicks including perhaps having the Knicks be a 3rd team in a deal.
It's a great draft, and it would be nice to get two extra ones. One from a Melo trade and the other from a Lee move that could include KOQ.
EnySpree wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:EnySpree wrote:A rebuild is not about just getting younger. You need vets to blend in. Someone has to set the example. Lee and KOQ are good vets to have around
KOQ has one year on his contract and how many Vets do you need? Noah, Lance, and Sasha are enough. Also, just go get a cheaper vet to set the example.
You need contributing vets... I'm all for trading guys if it makes sense. I'm just saying
Sasha isnt the guy. Lee has played well and is a still a good player. If someone reaches out and makes a great offer OK, but Im not looking to move him just because.
Noah/Lee/Lance. 3 guys who move the ball and defend and play hard and in the rotation. The other 6-7 guys in the rotation are going to be on rookie deals. Thats about the balance I am looking for. We will see what Phil does
Lee defensive ratings have taken a significant step back. When he played well, it was appreciated but too infrequent and too passive. I realize he's respected but I'd ship OQuinn (though I love his contract) and Lee for a first and a shot at Justin Jackson or a John Collins.
fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:EnySpree wrote:A rebuild is not about just getting younger. You need vets to blend in. Someone has to set the example. Lee and KOQ are good vets to have around
KOQ has one year on his contract and how many Vets do you need? Noah, Lance, and Sasha are enough. Also, just go get a cheaper vet to set the example.
You need contributing vets... I'm all for trading guys if it makes sense. I'm just saying
Sasha isnt the guy. Lee has played well and is a still a good player. If someone reaches out and makes a great offer OK, but Im not looking to move him just because.Noah/Lee/Lance. 3 guys who move the ball and defend and play hard and in the rotation. The other 6-7 guys in the rotation are going to be on rookie deals. Thats about the balance I am looking for. We will see what Phil does
Don't know how much we can realistically expect from those three in terms of games played- Noah has what - close to 20 games still on his suspension. And he will likely miss games.
Same with Lance - he has turned into a brittle player.
If I could trade Lee for a pick, I would. Impact on our rebuilding one way or the other will be negligible.
yellowboy90 wrote:EnySpree wrote:A rebuild is not about just getting younger. You need vets to blend in. Someone has to set the example. Lee and KOQ are good vets to have around
KOQ has one year on his contract and how many Vets do you need? Noah, Lance, and Sasha are enough. Also, just go get a cheaper vet to set the example.
For what it is worth- 2 years for KOQ...player option final year.
If he has a good year next season, I would expect him to opt out.
I would be surprised if Phil didn't try and make some moves to get a pick in what is considered a strong draft. Due to the rules though some of those trades would require that the person be drafted first and then traded.
Contending teams don't have cap room which means we have to take back some contracts as well, not that easy. Furthermore, their picks usually are bad.
I like picks, who wouldn't? but lets win some games and build a winning environment and make KP and Willy happier first. 
fishmike wrote:Lee has played well and is a still a good player. If someone reaches out and makes a great offer OK, but Im not looking to move him just because.
Lee is likely to decline steeply in the last two years of his deal. The tradeoff consideration for any non Knicks team is if his 2nd year of his contract is worth Years 3 and 4. He also creates a resource/asset question. Would it be more viable to draft a young player, under cost control, still able to ascend into his prime, AND have the associated cap space not taken by trading for Lee or surrender an asset AND lose that cap space where it might be used elsewhere.
This is the "Sean Gilbert" question ( Gilbert was a defensive lineman for the Redskins who held out an entire season, was traded under the old NFL franchise tag like Joey Gallowway, for 2 first round picks to Carolina, who promptly gave him a massive contract, where he busted as a player. Gilbert didn't just suck up two valuable 1st round picks, but a massive amount of cap space. Also his contract size forced him onto the field to justify his signing, instead of possibly playing a more productive player who did have to justify his contract. It's like setting resources on fire.
Lee does a lot of things functionally, but nothing well and nothing elite. Even with the cap going up, would a team rather draft a Justin Jackson type of player or a PJ Dozier or even a Harry Giles depending on where he falls and take in a FA signing rather than take in Lee? I'd say Yes.
Zinger, Hernangomez and, to some degree, O'Quinn, have trade value. The rest of the roster? Eh, I don't know. I think it's important to weigh out the entire market and then assess if the Knicks deal in place would be their best option out of all their potential choices. Under that standard, most of the Knicks players just don't have much, if any, trade value.
Once Jackson hit the salary floor, he didn't have to spend more money than that. But he did. I recognize a value contract like a Dwayne Dedmon is not going to sign with the Knicks. But it's better to not sign anyone than to do a Noah deal, or IMHO a Lee deal.
yellowboy90 wrote:EnySpree wrote:A rebuild is not about just getting younger. You need vets to blend in. Someone has to set the example. Lee and KOQ are good vets to have around
KOQ has one year on his contract and how many Vets do you need? Noah, Lance, and Sasha are enough. Also, just go get a cheaper vet to set the example.
sasha isn't on the roster, he's a FA, Lance is officially injury prone, and what good is Noah in a suit. All 3 had little to no impact at all.
