crzymdups wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is what accountability looks like.
Whats interesting is Bird is stepping down taking accountability for doing many of the things that you and others wanted Phil to do. He aqcuired established productive players like Teague, Ellis, Thad Young, Al Jefferson to put around his superstar player Paul George. While also having a young developing prospect in Miles Turner. They did just enough to get into the playoffs and lose in the first round.
And they don't run the triangle.
I don't think I ever asked the Knicks to make the moves the Pacers did. I said at the time I didn't think the Teague for George Hill move was a good one. I thought the Pacers would be better, but now they stand to lose PG in FA for nothing. Maybe they can move him at the draft. Good thing he doesn't have a no trade clause!
The principals are the same to what you have been preaching. They don't run the triangle system. They acquired established nba talent and not D league level talent. They tried to retool back to the 2012-2013 49 win ECC team.
There is noting to compare with Bird to Phil. Two teams, different scenarios. Bird had his successor in place and he has a history of working a few years, then going away or backing off. Man knows when he is burnt out. Good resume in full career. Indy don't its chip but thats not always on the exec. Shyt happens!!!!
George was drafted, not purchsed via trade. Indy is a good organization. Only fault I have on them is when they hired Isiah. Bird corrected that ASAP.
Nalod wrote:There is noting to compare with Bird to Phil. Two teams, different scenarios. Bird had his successor in place and he has a history of working a few years, then going away or backing off. Man knows when he is burnt out. Good resume in full career. Indy don't its chip but thats not always on the exec. Shyt happens!!!!George was drafted, not purchsed via trade. Indy is a good organization. Only fault I have on them is when they hired Isiah. Bird corrected that ASAP.
True...its like comparing the T-Wolves to the Knicks
Uptown wrote:Nalod wrote:There is noting to compare with Bird to Phil. Two teams, different scenarios. Bird had his successor in place and he has a history of working a few years, then going away or backing off. Man knows when he is burnt out. Good resume in full career. Indy don't its chip but thats not always on the exec. Shyt happens!!!!George was drafted, not purchsed via trade. Indy is a good organization. Only fault I have on them is when they hired Isiah. Bird corrected that ASAP.
True...its like comparing the T-Wolves to the Knicks
Bird didnt do a bad job to have to step down in shame. He most likely didnt have the drive to do the job anymore.
Bird stepping down isnt him holding himself accountable for a piss poor job.
Towns will always be tied together with KP. Thibbs was coveted by most fans and media for Phil to hire. We also almost traded Rose for Rubio. And we had the same exact record.
The only saving grace is that the Wolves have a brighter future due to having a plethora of assets that our Prez didnt have coming in. But I could guarantee that Rubio, Wiggins, Towns and Thibbs would be getting torn to shreds if they played in NY and produced the season they did.
At least 10 trade scenarios of Wiggins for George.
newyorknewyork wrote:Uptown wrote:Nalod wrote:There is noting to compare with Bird to Phil. Two teams, different scenarios. Bird had his successor in place and he has a history of working a few years, then going away or backing off. Man knows when he is burnt out. Good resume in full career. Indy don't its chip but thats not always on the exec. Shyt happens!!!!George was drafted, not purchsed via trade. Indy is a good organization. Only fault I have on them is when they hired Isiah. Bird corrected that ASAP.
True...its like comparing the T-Wolves to the Knicks
Bird didnt do a bad job to have to step down in shame. He most likely didnt have the drive to do the job anymore.
Bird stepping down isnt him holding himself accountable for a piss poor job.
Towns will always be tied together with KP. Thibbs was coveted by most fans and media for Phil to hire. We also almost traded Rose for Rubio. And we had the same exact record.
The only saving grace is that the Wolves have a brighter future due to having a plethora of assets that our Prez didnt have coming in. But I could guarantee that Rubio, Wiggins, Towns and Thibbs would be getting torn to shreds if they played in NY and produced the season they did.
At least 10 trade scenarios of Wiggins for George.
Whats been written is George wants to play in Los Angeles and won't sign an extension this summer. He would make less to wait and become a free agent and Indy is left with nothing. I'd guess that George will be asked prior to any trade if he'd extend with his new team. If "NO", he controls his trade destination. Sort of like when Melo has his opt out. Lakers have the desire for an established "Star" and the assets to make a good trade without killing themselves. Not sure what it would be.
Larry has had a great relationship with Herb Simon for years and they have been grooming Pritchard for some time now to take over. Continuance is always a good thing for most teams.
I see little correlation with anything about this to the knicks unless you got dots to connect.
Bird did a great job. A fantastic job honestly.
That Pacers team right before the Malice In The Palace could have been something special. Ron Artest ruined that team.
Then Bird rebuilt it even with Danny Granger hurt. Unfortunately this was a team that came into the cross hairs of the LeBron James Protection Society ( Nike, ESPN, David Stern, the NBA refs, the NBA administration) Don't get me wrong, they had problems for sure, George getting hurt, Stephenson falling off a cliff, Hill regressing, Granger hurt, Hibbert imploding. But they also could not win 8 on 5. The refs just seemed intent to job them night in and night out after LBJ probably cried to Nike and Nike started going insane on Stern/Silver about it all.
Base lesson here regarding the Pacers. You can't just build the right way, in the modern NBA, you must also BUILD A TEAM THAT THE NBA FINDS MARKETABLE.
It's just very very hard to move from the upper middle to contender in the modern NBA. This is not Bird's fault. There is clear systematic dysfunction on how the league operates and how the contracts/talent moves from team to team.
newyorknewyork wrote:crzymdups wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is what accountability looks like.
Whats interesting is Bird is stepping down taking accountability for doing many of the things that you and others wanted Phil to do. He aqcuired established productive players like Teague, Ellis, Thad Young, Al Jefferson to put around his superstar player Paul George. While also having a young developing prospect in Miles Turner. They did just enough to get into the playoffs and lose in the first round.
And they don't run the triangle.
I don't think I ever asked the Knicks to make the moves the Pacers did. I said at the time I didn't think the Teague for George Hill move was a good one. I thought the Pacers would be better, but now they stand to lose PG in FA for nothing. Maybe they can move him at the draft. Good thing he doesn't have a no trade clause!
The principals are the same to what you have been preaching. They don't run the triangle system. They acquired established nba talent and not D league level talent. They tried to retool back to the 2012-2013 49 win ECC team.
Like when they won 56 games in 2013-2014 and got to the Eastern Conference Finals? Yeah, that must have been a bummer.
Also, every other team in the NBA doesn't run the Triangle. That's not a management decision. That's just sanity.
crzymdups wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:crzymdups wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is what accountability looks like.
Whats interesting is Bird is stepping down taking accountability for doing many of the things that you and others wanted Phil to do. He aqcuired established productive players like Teague, Ellis, Thad Young, Al Jefferson to put around his superstar player Paul George. While also having a young developing prospect in Miles Turner. They did just enough to get into the playoffs and lose in the first round.
And they don't run the triangle.
I don't think I ever asked the Knicks to make the moves the Pacers did. I said at the time I didn't think the Teague for George Hill move was a good one. I thought the Pacers would be better, but now they stand to lose PG in FA for nothing. Maybe they can move him at the draft. Good thing he doesn't have a no trade clause!
The principals are the same to what you have been preaching. They don't run the triangle system. They acquired established nba talent and not D league level talent. They tried to retool back to the 2012-2013 49 win ECC team.
Like when they won 56 games in 2013-2014 and got to the Eastern Conference Finals? Yeah, that must have been a bummer.
Also, every other team in the NBA doesn't run the Triangle. That's not a management decision. That's just sanity.
They did that with the same team since they were relatively young. We traded for Bargs when he was on the verge of getting released, won 37 games and missed the playoffs.
You are the one who started the thread saying this is what accountability looks like. Which is it?
crzymdups wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:crzymdups wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is what accountability looks like.
Whats interesting is Bird is stepping down taking accountability for doing many of the things that you and others wanted Phil to do. He aqcuired established productive players like Teague, Ellis, Thad Young, Al Jefferson to put around his superstar player Paul George. While also having a young developing prospect in Miles Turner. They did just enough to get into the playoffs and lose in the first round.
And they don't run the triangle.
I don't think I ever asked the Knicks to make the moves the Pacers did. I said at the time I didn't think the Teague for George Hill move was a good one. I thought the Pacers would be better, but now they stand to lose PG in FA for nothing. Maybe they can move him at the draft. Good thing he doesn't have a no trade clause!
The principals are the same to what you have been preaching. They don't run the triangle system. They acquired established nba talent and not D league level talent. They tried to retool back to the 2012-2013 49 win ECC team.
Like when they won 56 games in 2013-2014 and got to the Eastern Conference Finals? Yeah, that must have been a bummer.
Also, every other team in the NBA doesn't run the Triangle. That's not a management decision. That's just sanity.
How many ran the triangle in the 20 years Phil won 11 rings?
Winning is not easy. Raising the bar is not easy. You insist its not talent, its a few bad trades and the triangle otherwise we'd be a playoff team? You know, maybe, and then a early first round exit. Better than not of course, but you wouldn't tell your kid to NOT go to medical school because nobody in the family has ever done it, and its too hard, would you? Thats your logic, no other team runs it (they run derivatives at times) and that means its bad. You thinking if Phil is not coaching, nobody can coach it.
And you may be right. But it seems like Phil is trying to raise the bar, build thru the draft and attempt some other things. Like signing Rolo that made the Rose trade possible, and the Noah signing needed. And it did not work. In an impatient world, one should fire the guy that thought that up and start with some "anything is better than this guy" concept that is not accountable to any standard other than "Winning is better than losing"....
And no, you can't win without great talent. Kobe and Jordan never won a title without Phil.
Great players make systems work.
Lebron is an exception, this dude makes other around him better, but thats a different story.
Crzy,
Actually, this is what accountability looks Like:
The man has achieved at every level. While his tenure might not produce a championship in his time as president, he is resetting the franchise for the long run. You want a man who has been an architect of a team that has produced a champion. Where is your list?
You can't correlate any two teams as if they are standardized machine parts. Every team has different personal, salaries, coach, eta. The variables are intense.
Only thing I see from you is hindsight critique on matters that don't fit your timeline and highly influenced by media suggestion.
Winning is hard, there is no exact formula. Triangle team ball vs. starphuching. Seems that if you don't get a superstar, and they seem to only come about every 10 years via draft, its not easy to win big. Michael Westbrook had a season for the ages. 47 wins, a middle seed and a first round exit. Its not always the talent. Billy Donovan is a fine coach. OKC a good talented roster.
Its obvious a better coach? Better system? better players? Better chemistry?
Rockets tweeked the roster last year and bought in MDA. Big change. Whats different?
You prefer we built off Melo, JR, Shump, Tyson, and Felton? How did that work the first time?
Im ok with With Phil because he is raising the bar, trying to do something really hard, and if in the process he vetting out those that won't play in a team concept, then so be it.
Seen vs. unseen. Phil is accountable with the knicks wins and loss record. Bird did a good job over many years where Indy had him, walsh and pritchard as a main core with a continued process.
Accountability is leaving a franchise in good hands. When your rebuilding its foundation, it takes time.
crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:fwk00 wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is what accountability looks like.
I'm surprised the MSM isn't ripping him a new one for his press conference which is the first in how long?
They didn't rip him a new one because he accepted accountability for the job he'd done, instead of trying to blame Paul George.
But Phil did take the blame in his press conference.... That's why he said Melo would be better off leaving as to not waste his last year's dealing with the rebuild
He said "I didn't make a single substitution, I didn't take a single shot... but the buck stops here."
That's like saying "yes it was wrong, but she was totally asking for it dressing like that."
That's like saying "I still don't understand what you think I did was wrong, but I'm sorry I upset you."
It's not actually accepting accountability if you blame someone else while supposedly accepting it.
Accepting accountability is what Larry Bird did.
Its not like saying that at all. What Phil said is this is his fault, it starts and stops with him and he is responsible. He also said he was bothered by lack of effort. A president is allowed to say that and he should. You hear blame because nothing Phil could do (short of stepping down and saying "my bad") would be good enough for you.
Yes its Phil's fault. When Melo puts up better numbers next year playing next to CP3 and Jordan and talks about "being able to breath again" that will be Phil's fault also.
When's the draft?
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Uptown wrote:Nalod wrote:There is noting to compare with Bird to Phil. Two teams, different scenarios. Bird had his successor in place and he has a history of working a few years, then going away or backing off. Man knows when he is burnt out. Good resume in full career. Indy don't its chip but thats not always on the exec. Shyt happens!!!!George was drafted, not purchsed via trade. Indy is a good organization. Only fault I have on them is when they hired Isiah. Bird corrected that ASAP.
True...its like comparing the T-Wolves to the Knicks
Bird didnt do a bad job to have to step down in shame. He most likely didnt have the drive to do the job anymore.
Bird stepping down isnt him holding himself accountable for a piss poor job.
Towns will always be tied together with KP. Thibbs was coveted by most fans and media for Phil to hire. We also almost traded Rose for Rubio. And we had the same exact record.
The only saving grace is that the Wolves have a brighter future due to having a plethora of assets that our Prez didnt have coming in. But I could guarantee that Rubio, Wiggins, Towns and Thibbs would be getting torn to shreds if they played in NY and produced the season they did.
At least 10 trade scenarios of Wiggins for George.
Whats been written is George wants to play in Los Angeles and won't sign an extension this summer. He would make less to wait and become a free agent and Indy is left with nothing. I'd guess that George will be asked prior to any trade if he'd extend with his new team. If "NO", he controls his trade destination. Sort of like when Melo has his opt out. Lakers have the desire for an established "Star" and the assets to make a good trade without killing themselves. Not sure what it would be.
Larry has had a great relationship with Herb Simon for years and they have been grooming Pritchard for some time now to take over. Continuance is always a good thing for most teams.
I see little correlation with anything about this to the knicks unless you got dots to connect.
One of the main reasons why I think if Phil isn't ran out of town Mills will take his job and Houston will finally be brought up to do the day to day things.
