Knicks · who will set culture like this in New York (page 2)
It isn't a culture change without winning. Dont believe organizationally, the Knicks have the people to do it. If they did, we would have started turning things around by now, headed in the right direction in the win column.
Thats what will attract stars, and that's what will keep them. Is the organization doing everything to foster that type of culture? The win column says no. Until they do its just talk of a culture change without really having one.
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Riles been top dog in Miami for 22 years. Big body or work. he had some miserable years and make some mistakes too. They all do.I don't think anyone said Phil broke up a winning formula. I do think asking the question, who is going to set the culture is a good one. Currently, the Knicks have had three roster resets. Their future franchise player skipped his exit meeting and is talking about winning being a priority. Management and the coaching staff switched offenses again in February. Team defense is horrible. Most of the players being credited with 'getting it' are undrafted guys playing for their next contract. Mannix on his podcast recently was talking about how no players want anything to do with NY because of how Phil has handled the Melo situation. You can hate Melo and love that Phil said bad things about him but other players hear that and want no part of it. I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't want the Knicks to win. But I am surprised that when the path that has been taken so far by Phil is questioned and referred to as needing to blame someone.
Has phil? Of course.But the notion that Phil broke up a winning formula is laughable. Knicks 54 win team was like putting oatmeal in the radiator to stop a leak. it worked, but you know it won't last. The next year they won 37 and the Bargnani trade was our big shot in the arm. Bad.
Phil was a bought in to rebuild the car. to take the radiator out, one has to remove a lot more parts as well. When you do that, you see the water pump is starting to go, so why not replace that (Tyson), then why put back rotting hoses? you replace them (JR), and the clamps that have some rust on it (Shump). Since not all parts are readily available, sometime times you go with a temporary fix, like Jose. You get the drift.
If you judge phil on the short view then perhaps in ones mind its a valid "Failure". Its like rebuilding a house on Demo day and your screaming "Look its now worse!!!" Naturally we all know you have to tear it down before you rebuild. What we can't see is the future because team construction is not like a building, its far more abstract. Its ignorant to not consider that just because you can't see it, it will never happen.
When riles tears it down he has a 22 executive career for fans to say "He did it before"......and that breeds confidence. Funny is the conditions are always different and sometimes Riley did not get it right. Luck sometimes plays into it, like getting a high pick and its Beasley. You take whats there sometimes.
Agreed!!!! Its a players league. Someone posted that players don't want to come here, part of the reason is phil. When he arrived he boasted of culture change, etc. The culture and perception of this franchise is worse than it was when Grunwald was in charge.
Jeff signed on to run his thing? Or a learn from the winningest coach of all time? The Triangle is not some model "T" orthodox religion not in step with the times.
Its a system of ball movement and moving without the ball. GSW and spurs doit. Caves win on talent. Blatt was more of a systems guy and he was not hired to coach Lebron, was there to coach a young team.
3 years to turn a franchise around and not much on the surface to show for it? One might call that superficial. Good things take time to build and there are no two ways to build a franchise. All I Know MSG never had enough money to trade picks and sign FA's to get there.
Same old argument. Who will set the culture In NY? Well, Melo had 7 years and he a very talented guy with CAA and great influence. We read he'd recruit and use his rolodex.
Thats a player with clout and he didn't deliver. Im not blaming him, but "its a players league" and in Miami, Riley cleared the deck and had a god awful season to do so (Most of you would be organizing protests to out him!!) and the players colluded to have a party there!! Melo was not invited. He and Chris Paul were trying to hook up.
Some teams and some players can get it done. Paul George can determine his fate and use "winning" as a good excuse. he can't come out and say, "Hey, I appreciate the 30million offer but I'd just as some play in California and not cold and Nasty Indianapolis!!!!
Cleveland has a chip. Its nasty there too!!!!
nixluva wrote:Riley has been at this for a long time now. Phil is still new and was handicapped in his 1st 3 years by a lack of picks. I'm glad Dolan is letting Phil finish his contract. Phil has a different mandate as well. He's here not for a 20 year stint but to lay a foundation for the franchise. If Phil is successful in laying that foundation by the end of his deal then he'll have been successful IMO.
phil isn't here to build no foundation, he's here to collect his money that he suckered dolan into given him, and bring down the value of every single player on any of his ny knicks roster except No d willy, and force the bull sht system on anybody willing to listen.
Im so sick of you fools comparing GSW and spurs to system basketball that phil is trying to develop. It so fckng retarted to think a guy is building a foundation when
1) he has 2 years left on his contract
2)no player gives a flying fck about the triangle
3)players begging to be waived
4)gsw & the spurs have had primarily the same roster for more than 3 months, more like 5+ yrs
5)no franchise on earth would hire rambis for even a pep talk
we are a lost franchise with ass holes running it. How many players did the spurs and GSW have that wanted off the team, how many times did those team flip the entire roster, have you ever heard of duncun, curry, parker, green, klay, ginoble talk about mass confusion amongst the team and no direction, and skip out on exit meetings to ride bikes in central park.
When has GSW, Cavs and the spurs traded all their young picks for old wash up injury prone players..Nix get a grip
Who rips his star player through the media, then tries to trade him, certainly not POP..
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:Riley has been at this for a long time now. Phil is still new and was handicapped in his 1st 3 years by a lack of picks. I'm glad Dolan is letting Phil finish his contract. Phil has a different mandate as well. He's here not for a 20 year stint but to lay a foundation for the franchise. If Phil is successful in laying that foundation by the end of his deal then he'll have been successful IMO.
phil isn't here to build no foundation, he's here to collect his money that he suckered dolan into given him, and bring down the value of every single player on any of his ny knicks roster except No d willy, and force the bull sht system on anybody willing to listen.Im so sick of you fools comparing GSW and spurs to system basketball that phil is trying to develop. It so fckng retarted to think a guy is building a foundation when
1) he has 2 years left on his contract
2)no player gives a flying fck about the triangle
3)players begging to be waived
4)gsw & the spurs have had primarily the same roster for more than 3 months, more like 5+ yrs
5)no franchise on earth would hire rambis for even a pep talk
we are a lost franchise with ass holes running it. How many players did the spurs and GSW have that wanted off the team, how many times did those team flip the entire roster, have you ever heard of duncun, curry, parker, green, klay, ginoble talk about mass confusion amongst the team and no direction, and skip out on exit meetings to ride bikes in central park.When has GSW, Cavs and the spurs traded all their young picks for old wash up injury prone players..Nix get a grip
Who rips his star player through the media, then tries to trade him, certainly not POP..
The coach of the Lakers tried to have Kobe traded. Ripped him in a book. They won chips. When the coach left, Kobe recruited him back after the book.
Its basketball. Phil has the same ring count than Kerr, Pop and Riley TOGETHER!!!!!
duncun, curry, parker, green, klay, ginoble talk about mass confusion amongst the team
No, you don't read about it. Know why? They all play in a system that has made the wealthy, champions enroute to HOF.
Melo has pushed back on Karl, MDA, Fish and Hornacek.
Kobe pushed back a lot.....but when he didn't......
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:Riley has been at this for a long time now. Phil is still new and was handicapped in his 1st 3 years by a lack of picks. I'm glad Dolan is letting Phil finish his contract. Phil has a different mandate as well. He's here not for a 20 year stint but to lay a foundation for the franchise. If Phil is successful in laying that foundation by the end of his deal then he'll have been successful IMO.
phil isn't here to build no foundation, he's here to collect his money that he suckered dolan into given him, and bring down the value of every single player on any of his ny knicks roster except No d willy, and force the bull sht system on anybody willing to listen.Im so sick of you fools comparing GSW and spurs to system basketball that phil is trying to develop. It so fckng retarted to think a guy is building a foundation when
1) he has 2 years left on his contract
2)no player gives a flying fck about the triangle
3)players begging to be waived
4)gsw & the spurs have had primarily the same roster for more than 3 months, more like 5+ yrs
5)no franchise on earth would hire rambis for even a pep talk
we are a lost franchise with ass holes running it. How many players did the spurs and GSW have that wanted off the team, how many times did those team flip the entire roster, have you ever heard of duncun, curry, parker, green, klay, ginoble talk about mass confusion amongst the team and no direction, and skip out on exit meetings to ride bikes in central park.When has GSW, Cavs and the spurs traded all their young picks for old wash up injury prone players..Nix get a grip
Who rips his star player through the media, then tries to trade him, certainly not POP..
I'm not the one who needs to get a grip! Does it even make sense that Phil is not seriously trying to build a foundation here with the Knicks? If he wasn't then he most certainly wouldn't have made the deal to get Willy. He might've traded the KP pick for a Win Now Player. We started the year with 5 rookies. We ended with 6 rookies. Willy, Baker, Randle, Plumlee, Kuz and Ndour!
Phil's contract length has nothing to do with it. What kind of dumb point is that. How long do you think his contract should've been 10yrs?
The YOUNG players in fact did like playing in Jeff's version of the Triangle. You simply hate on the system cuz you don't know what you're looking at. If you did then you wouldn't keep bringing it up. Jeff has modernized the offense and it's perfectly fine. Just cuz BJ and Rose refused to make the effort to learn it doesn't mean ALL the players did.
BJ wasn't going to be brought back anyway. NON LEARNER.
The Knicks will be bringing back most of the roster. There will be some continuity. Thing is that they are still in need of talent upgrades and with a young team this is to be expected. This is a STUPID point when you're building with players in their 20's.
Harping on Rambis is really not relevant. You and the Media makes a big deal of this but it's not relevant.
KP skipping the Exit Meeting was a bad move on his part. Even if he was upset about something that's not how you handle it. Things are simply not bad enough for such a reaction from a 21 yr old. The only real issue going forward is Melo being traded. After that there are no other roster issues!!! All that will be left are hard working Team Players. We'll add some new talent this summer and get back to building this team.
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:Riley has been at this for a long time now. Phil is still new and was handicapped in his 1st 3 years by a lack of picks. I'm glad Dolan is letting Phil finish his contract. Phil has a different mandate as well. He's here not for a 20 year stint but to lay a foundation for the franchise. If Phil is successful in laying that foundation by the end of his deal then he'll have been successful IMO.
phil isn't here to build no foundation, he's here to collect his money that he suckered dolan into given him, and bring down the value of every single player on any of his ny knicks roster except No d willy, and force the bull sht system on anybody willing to listen.Im so sick of you fools comparing GSW and spurs to system basketball that phil is trying to develop. It so fckng retarted to think a guy is building a foundation when1) he has 2 years left on his contract
2)no player gives a flying fck about the triangle
3)players begging to be waived
4)gsw & the spurs have had primarily the same roster for more than 3 months, more like 5+ yrs
5)no franchise on earth would hire rambis for even a pep talk
we are a lost franchise with ass holes running it. How many players did the spurs and GSW have that wanted off the team, how many times did those team flip the entire roster, have you ever heard of duncun, curry, parker, green, klay, ginoble talk about mass confusion amongst the team and no direction, and skip out on exit meetings to ride bikes in central park.When has GSW, Cavs and the spurs traded all their young picks for old wash up injury prone players..Nix get a grip
Who rips his star player through the media, then tries to trade him, certainly not POP..
Great post!!
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:Riley has been at this for a long time now. Phil is still new and was handicapped in his 1st 3 years by a lack of picks. I'm glad Dolan is letting Phil finish his contract. Phil has a different mandate as well. He's here not for a 20 year stint but to lay a foundation for the franchise. If Phil is successful in laying that foundation by the end of his deal then he'll have been successful IMO.
phil isn't here to build no foundation, he's here to collect his money that he suckered dolan into given him, and bring down the value of every single player on any of his ny knicks roster except No d willy, and force the bull sht system on anybody willing to listen.Im so sick of you fools comparing GSW and spurs to system basketball that phil is trying to develop. It so fckng retarted to think a guy is building a foundation when
1) he has 2 years left on his contract
2)no player gives a flying fck about the triangle
3)players begging to be waived
4)gsw & the spurs have had primarily the same roster for more than 3 months, more like 5+ yrs
5)no franchise on earth would hire rambis for even a pep talk
we are a lost franchise with ass holes running it. How many players did the spurs and GSW have that wanted off the team, how many times did those team flip the entire roster, have you ever heard of duncun, curry, parker, green, klay, ginoble talk about mass confusion amongst the team and no direction, and skip out on exit meetings to ride bikes in central park.When has GSW, Cavs and the spurs traded all their young picks for old wash up injury prone players..Nix get a grip
Who rips his star player through the media, then tries to trade him, certainly not POP..
I'm not the one who needs to get a grip! Does it even make sense that Phil is not seriously trying to build a foundation here with the Knicks? If he wasn't then he most certainly wouldn't have made the deal to get Willy. He might've traded the KP pick for a Win Now Player. We started the year with 5 rookies. We ended with 6 rookies. Willy, Baker, Randle, Plumlee, Kuz and Ndour!Phil's contract length has nothing to do with it. What kind of dumb point is that. How long do you think his contract should've been 10yrs?
The YOUNG players in fact did like playing in Jeff's version of the Triangle. You simply hate on the system cuz you don't know what you're looking at. If you did then you wouldn't keep bringing it up. Jeff has modernized the offense and it's perfectly fine. Just cuz BJ and Rose refused to make the effort to learn it doesn't mean ALL the players did.
BJ wasn't going to be brought back anyway. NON LEARNER.
The Knicks will be bringing back most of the roster. There will be some continuity. Thing is that they are still in need of talent upgrades and with a young team this is to be expected. This is a STUPID point when you're building with players in their 20's.
Harping on Rambis is really not relevant. You and the Media makes a big deal of this but it's not relevant.
KP skipping the Exit Meeting was a bad move on his part. Even if he was upset about something that's not how you handle it. Things are simply not bad enough for such a reaction from a 21 yr old. The only real issue going forward is Melo being traded. After that there are no other roster issues!!! All that will be left are hard working Team Players. We'll add some new talent this summer and get back to building this team.
Lets get a few things straight, you always make this statement as if you have spoken to phil personally.
the only reason we had as many rookies as we did is because we had no more money after backing up the brinks truck for NOAH, (couldnt even re-sign Galloway) The reason phil traded for rose is because he had zero options to upgrade the position via FA.
HOWS BJ doing on the wizards, are you reading articles about him not fitting in and can't learn the system, he seems to be fitting in quite nicely in the middle of the season.. BJ had multiple double digit assist off the bench doing his own thing, or when JH was running is version, he was toast once phil step in and said Fck JH's version, we're running my version like it or not.
The knicks bringing back most of the roster and trading melo is your wish, not fact. Especially when phil declared no one is untradeable. The knicks have one 1st rndr, and a bad image, meaning no impact player is looking at the franchise as a destination.
Hard working low IQ players don't win games.
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:Riley has been at this for a long time now. Phil is still new and was handicapped in his 1st 3 years by a lack of picks. I'm glad Dolan is letting Phil finish his contract. Phil has a different mandate as well. He's here not for a 20 year stint but to lay a foundation for the franchise. If Phil is successful in laying that foundation by the end of his deal then he'll have been successful IMO.
phil isn't here to build no foundation, he's here to collect his money that he suckered dolan into given him, and bring down the value of every single player on any of his ny knicks roster except No d willy, and force the bull sht system on anybody willing to listen.Im so sick of you fools comparing GSW and spurs to system basketball that phil is trying to develop. It so fckng retarted to think a guy is building a foundation when
1) he has 2 years left on his contract
2)no player gives a flying fck about the triangle
3)players begging to be waived
4)gsw & the spurs have had primarily the same roster for more than 3 months, more like 5+ yrs
5)no franchise on earth would hire rambis for even a pep talk
we are a lost franchise with ass holes running it. How many players did the spurs and GSW have that wanted off the team, how many times did those team flip the entire roster, have you ever heard of duncun, curry, parker, green, klay, ginoble talk about mass confusion amongst the team and no direction, and skip out on exit meetings to ride bikes in central park.When has GSW, Cavs and the spurs traded all their young picks for old wash up injury prone players..Nix get a grip
Who rips his star player through the media, then tries to trade him, certainly not POP..
I'm not the one who needs to get a grip! Does it even make sense that Phil is not seriously trying to build a foundation here with the Knicks? If he wasn't then he most certainly wouldn't have made the deal to get Willy. He might've traded the KP pick for a Win Now Player. We started the year with 5 rookies. We ended with 6 rookies. Willy, Baker, Randle, Plumlee, Kuz and Ndour!Phil's contract length has nothing to do with it. What kind of dumb point is that. How long do you think his contract should've been 10yrs?
The YOUNG players in fact did like playing in Jeff's version of the Triangle. You simply hate on the system cuz you don't know what you're looking at. If you did then you wouldn't keep bringing it up. Jeff has modernized the offense and it's perfectly fine. Just cuz BJ and Rose refused to make the effort to learn it doesn't mean ALL the players did.
BJ wasn't going to be brought back anyway. NON LEARNER.
The Knicks will be bringing back most of the roster. There will be some continuity. Thing is that they are still in need of talent upgrades and with a young team this is to be expected. This is a STUPID point when you're building with players in their 20's.
Harping on Rambis is really not relevant. You and the Media makes a big deal of this but it's not relevant.
KP skipping the Exit Meeting was a bad move on his part. Even if he was upset about something that's not how you handle it. Things are simply not bad enough for such a reaction from a 21 yr old. The only real issue going forward is Melo being traded. After that there are no other roster issues!!! All that will be left are hard working Team Players. We'll add some new talent this summer and get back to building this team.
Lets get a few things straight, you always make this statement as if you have spoken to phil personally.
the only reason we had as many rookies as we did is because we had no more money after backing up the brinks truck for NOAH, (couldnt even re-sign Galloway) The reason phil traded for rose is because he had zero options to upgrade the position via FA.
HOWS BJ doing on the wizards, are you reading articles about him not fitting in and can't learn the system, he seems to be fitting in quite nicely in the middle of the season.. BJ had multiple double digit assist off the bench doing his own thing, or when JH was running is version, he was toast once phil step in and said Fck JH's version, we're running my version like it or not.
The knicks bringing back most of the roster and trading melo is your wish, not fact. Especially when phil declared no one is untradeable. The knicks have one 1st rndr, and a bad image, meaning no impact player is looking at the franchise as a destination.
Hard working low IQ players don't win games.
I don't have to speak personally to Phil. He's telling us what he's doing for the most part. He's going to rebuild but not in a way that ignores roster make up. So he's gonna have a lot of kids but also vets to make things function properly.
The key change is getting rid of players that RESIST playing Team Ball with Ball and Player Movement. He wants to emphasize players that can defend. There was a huge difference in the defensive intensity once the Kids got to play. That's what he wants to do more of. Phil is moving the team in a better direction.
Regarding Continuity, of course with trades players can be moved but that has to actually happen 1st. As of right now they have a good number of players they can bring back barring any UPGRADE they can make. The point is that this is a team about to put together a YOUNG CORE. Players that are in their early 20's. Whether Melo is traded or not there WILL BE new blood added to this team. The Core for the future is being built. All of your complaining and whining won't change these basic facts.
CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.
High character players achieve because the culture allows them to. The yoots are developing were previous culture was stifling.
The combo is fun. No doubt we need a talent infusion but that what Willy is doing, and Baker in a support role might still prove a valuable asset.
Jennings had some nice Knick moments earlier in the season. That is not the same as the team playing as a unit. The kid was not able to function at a high level there.
Spurs have had this happen where guys just can't do it and play into a system. No, we are not there but if you act like you are a successful team, eventually a culture develops.
There are plenty of players that want to get paid and succeed in the NBA. Its an opportunity in NY. Not a detriment.
Nalod wrote:Until winning starts I don't see a culture of winning in NY. Troubling trends, the next franchise player skipped his exit meeting and says he wants to win. The pres trashed his star player, says he wants to trade him but has a history of getting little back for guys he wants to move on from. The pres wants Rambis to coach and the players can't stand him. Maybe the Knicks win the lottery and somehow get something back for Melo. I am much more open to the idea that the Knicks might get a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft. I don't think that will be the plan but I do see it as a likely outcome.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.High character players achieve because the culture allows them to. The yoots are developing were previous culture was stifling.
The combo is fun. No doubt we need a talent infusion but that what Willy is doing, and Baker in a support role might still prove a valuable asset.Jennings had some nice Knick moments earlier in the season. That is not the same as the team playing as a unit. The kid was not able to function at a high level there.
Spurs have had this happen where guys just can't do it and play into a system. No, we are not there but if you act like you are a successful team, eventually a culture develops.
There are plenty of players that want to get paid and succeed in the NBA. Its an opportunity in NY. Not a detriment.
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Until winning starts I don't see a culture of winning in NY. Troubling trends, the next franchise player skipped his exit meeting and says he wants to win. The pres trashed his star player, says he wants to trade him but has a history of getting little back for guys he wants to move on from. The pres wants Rambis to coach and the players can't stand him. Maybe the Knicks win the lottery and somehow get something back for Melo. I am much more open to the idea that the Knicks might get a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft. I don't think that will be the plan but I do see it as a likely outcome.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.High character players achieve because the culture allows them to. The yoots are developing were previous culture was stifling.
The combo is fun. No doubt we need a talent infusion but that what Willy is doing, and Baker in a support role might still prove a valuable asset.Jennings had some nice Knick moments earlier in the season. That is not the same as the team playing as a unit. The kid was not able to function at a high level there.
Spurs have had this happen where guys just can't do it and play into a system. No, we are not there but if you act like you are a successful team, eventually a culture develops.
There are plenty of players that want to get paid and succeed in the NBA. Its an opportunity in NY. Not a detriment.
You have to CRAWL before you can WALK! You seem to be missing this point when talking about the Culture change has to become winning. Of course the team has to start winning but you know this team is going to be developing young players so what's your damn rush to be winning? By that I take it you mean .500 and above W/L.
You should be more concerned that the young talent is being developed the right way and learning winning PRINCIPLES like TEAM ball and Max Effort. You want to just skip those steps and that's not the right approach. Fundamentals need to be established and that's what started to happen last year. This KP thing has too many Knicks fans F'd in the head.
KP has issues but it's not indicative of what the entire group of young players is being taught. KP actually made a mistake in doing what he did. I don't know what behind the scenes issue in particular made KP do it but it was wrong. I think it was about Melo but who knows. In the end KP is going to be here and is going to have to fall in line like everyone else. KP is not the owner. Not he Prez or GM and he's not the Coach!
Also you need to get off this crap about the Knicks not actually seeking winning talent. What proof do you have that this is what they do??? KP? Willy? You wanna hold out Baker, Holiday and Randle as examples. In fact they are what you want in role players. They play hard, listen and they execute. The entire point of the Draft is to add top tier talent so obviously this draft presents a nice opportunity to do that.
I think you're becoming even more bitter about a situation that is nowhere near as bad as you think it is. Believe it or not but Phil is all about winning and always has been. You can't really point to anything in his stated principles for this team that are not about winning.
CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.
I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
knicks1248 wrote:I think one of Randle, Ndour, or Plumlee isn't back. I think it might depend on the draft and if O'quin is moved.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I think one of Randle, Ndour, or Plumlee isn't back. I think it might depend on the draft and if O'quin is moved.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
It could be that some of the lower end players may not make the team next year. It's all part of the process of upgrading the roster.
The possibility of trades could also be a chance to bring in better young talent or open up a roster spot. There are quite a few options for changes this summer. Melo, KOQ or CLee could be moved.
nixluva wrote:If the Knicks are rebuilding those guys all should be moved. I do worry about the outcome of trades though.CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I think one of Randle, Ndour, or Plumlee isn't back. I think it might depend on the draft and if O'quin is moved.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
It could be that some of the lower end players may not make the team next year. It's all part of the process of upgrading the roster.
The possibility of trades could also be a chance to bring in better young talent or open up a roster spot. There are quite a few options for changes this summer. Melo, KOQ or CLee could be moved.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:If the Knicks are rebuilding those guys all should be moved. I do worry about the outcome of trades though.CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I think one of Randle, Ndour, or Plumlee isn't back. I think it might depend on the draft and if O'quin is moved.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
It could be that some of the lower end players may not make the team next year. It's all part of the process of upgrading the roster.
The possibility of trades could also be a chance to bring in better young talent or open up a roster spot. There are quite a few options for changes this summer. Melo, KOQ or CLee could be moved.
Not sure what you think would happen in a trade for these guys but Phil is probably going to want youth and picks as well as one capable starter.
nixluva wrote:Phil doesn't have a good track record with what he brings back in trades. I think the Melo deal is the scariest because Phil has made it known that he is done with him. In the past when he gets to that point with guys he has given them up for next to nothing.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:If the Knicks are rebuilding those guys all should be moved. I do worry about the outcome of trades though.CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I think one of Randle, Ndour, or Plumlee isn't back. I think it might depend on the draft and if O'quin is moved.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
It could be that some of the lower end players may not make the team next year. It's all part of the process of upgrading the roster.
The possibility of trades could also be a chance to bring in better young talent or open up a roster spot. There are quite a few options for changes this summer. Melo, KOQ or CLee could be moved.
Not sure what you think would happen in a trade for these guys but Phil is probably going to want youth and picks as well as one capable starter.
knicks1248 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
When did he blame Melo?
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Phil doesn't have a good track record with what he brings back in trades. I think the Melo deal is the scariest because Phil has made it known that he is done with him. In the past when he gets to that point with guys he has given them up for next to nothing.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:If the Knicks are rebuilding those guys all should be moved. I do worry about the outcome of trades though.CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I think one of Randle, Ndour, or Plumlee isn't back. I think it might depend on the draft and if O'quin is moved.CrushAlot wrote:At some point talent needs to be brought in. The Knicks have 8 undrafted players on their roster and 2 second round picks. Five players on the team were first round picks and that includs Noah (out) Melo (being traded?) and Rose. I love high character guys that over achieve and fill a role for a team but at some point team building and creating a culture becomes about winning. Hopefully an approach is employed that doesn't focus on moving guys for nothing to get high character undrafted players that will buy in and is more about building a winner.I believe randle or baker will not be back, when phil said the young guys play hard, he also said they didn't play smart at all, and the talent level was not there. Then again, how can he make astatement like that, then blame melo
It could be that some of the lower end players may not make the team next year. It's all part of the process of upgrading the roster.
The possibility of trades could also be a chance to bring in better young talent or open up a roster spot. There are quite a few options for changes this summer. Melo, KOQ or CLee could be moved.
Not sure what you think would happen in a trade for these guys but Phil is probably going to want youth and picks as well as one capable starter.
OK you guys keep saying this and so does the Media, but due to the nature of Melo's contract it's going to take a substantial return to make any deal work. It's not really about a team trying to stick it to the Knicks cuz Phil said Melo should leave. The numbers of the deal have to work. Also there has to be a very willing trade partner to want to take on the challenge of making such a deal. Both teams will be desperate.