Knicks · Wash Wiz An Example Of What The Knicks Could Do (page 1)
John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)
The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
Gudris wrote:agree, i think we are going into right direction, 3-5 years and we will be Finals
How would you know that? There are 29 other teams that'll attempting to do the same and we have no way to account for player movement or injuries.
Everything I mentioned is very healthy roster building. We just have to let all this play out.... I bet right around the 4th of July we should have everything sorted out as far as a Melo trade and free agency.... that's only about 2 months.
It was injuries to Wall, Beal, and a strike shortened lockout season that held them back more than anything. They were lucky to get their backcourt set first, something the Knicks didnt have the luxury of doing.
If Phil can follow the model you presented without a detour into the "retread zone" again, the Knicks should be able to at least field the right personel to contend in the East. The offense is an entirely another issue that I will pass on right now. 
NardDogNation wrote:Gudris wrote:agree, i think we are going into right direction, 3-5 years and we will be FinalsHow would you know that? There are 29 other teams that'll attempting to do the same and we have no way to account for player movement or injuries.
Fuck it man 3-5 years !!! What are we rebuildinv this thing for? lets go!!!
GustavBahler wrote:Interesting comparison. Wiz drafting an elite PG, a solid backcourt, as their foundation. Made it easier to build the team, attract talent. As far as I can remember, they didn't sign anyone comparable to Rose or Noah, with their injury history, to play such a major role on the squad.It was injuries to Wall, Beal, and a strike shortened lockout season that held them back more than anything. They were lucky to get their backcourt set first, something the Knicks didnt have the luxury of doing.
If Phil can follow the model you presented without a detour into the "retread zone" again, the Knicks should be able to at least field the right personel to contend in the East. The offense is an entirely another issue that I will pass on right now.
The Knicks are set up to establish a new young core this summer if they work things just right! This draft is Guard and Wing rich. With a bit of luck and smart moves a LOT could be accomplished this summer. It's a very critical summer with loads of opportunities but they have to take advantage of them and execute at a high level.
Uptown wrote:John Wall was a #1 pick...Beal was #3 pick. Those two players formed the foundation of their squad. Unless we get lucky and can get into the top 3 this year, it'll be difficult to follow the Wiz blueprint. Speaking of blueprint, their designer is our former GM, Grunfeld.
+1
nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
you forgot the most important thing
Hired experience coach with a winning track record and allowing him to run his own system
That solves half your problems
HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
WOW! Way to be totally pessimistic!!!
No reason the Knicks are doomed to take 7 years to get to contention. This isn't about how long it took Washington. It's about the viable path the Knicks can take to building a core and then building around that core. The Picks don't have to be #1 overall. #1 overall is not the only spot in a draft that produces players that can help a team become a winner.
The concept of drafting 3 core players is not unique to Washington and I think we have to open our minds and not be so immediately pessimistic about how the rest of the team can be built around that core.
Stephen Curry Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (7th pick, 7th overall), 2009 NBA Draft
Klay Thompson Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (11th pick, 11th overall), 2011 NBA Draft
Draymond Green Draft: Golden State Warriors, 2nd round (5th pick, 35th overall), 2012 NBA Draft
You can keep your core together and still build around them. You have to be smart in how you acquire talent and manage the cap. Thing is this problem is years down the line at this point for the Knicks. A lot can change between now and then in terms of their cap situation.
The Knicks are building for AFTER the dominance of Lebron and Curry. We are talking about the long term development of this team. This is just the beginning of the process. It's a huge summer because of the very real opportunities the Knicks have to take advantage of.
nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
WOW! Way to be totally pessimistic!!!No reason the Knicks are doomed to take 7 years to get to contention. This isn't about how long it took Washington. It's about the viable path the Knicks can take to building a core and then building around that core. The Picks don't have to be #1 overall. #1 overall is not the only spot in a draft that produces players that can help a team become a winner.
The concept of drafting 3 core players is not unique to Washington and I think we have to open our minds and not be so immediately pessimistic about how the rest of the team can be built around that core.
[b]Stephen Curry Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (7th pick, 7th overall), 2009 NBA Draft
Klay Thompson Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (11th pick, 11th overall), 2011 NBA Draft
Draymond Green Draft: Golden State Warriors, 2nd round (5th pick, 35th overall), 2012 NBA Draft
[/b]
You can keep your core together and still build around them. You have to be smart in how you acquire talent and manage the cap. Thing is this problem is years down the line at this point for the Knicks. A lot can change between now and then in terms of their cap situation.The Knicks are building for AFTER the dominance of Lebron and Curry. We are talking about the long term development of this team. This is just the beginning of the process. It's a huge summer because of the very real opportunities the Knicks have to take advantage of.
Perhaps you should change the title to GS Warriors an example of what the Knicks could do...Unfortunately, the Warriors coach, and good friend of phil, had a chance to build a version of the Warriros here in NY, but chose to ran as far away from phil as possible.
Also, you seem to have a ton of insight in terms of what the Knicks are planning since you speak in absolutes. Since you have so much insight, maybe you should share this plan with phil because trading for Rose, Noah, Lee and giving Melo the NTC does not indicate that the Knicks are building for after Lebron and Curry. BTW Curry is only 29 yrs old...he ain't going nowhere anytime soon.
Uptown wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
WOW! Way to be totally pessimistic!!!No reason the Knicks are doomed to take 7 years to get to contention. This isn't about how long it took Washington. It's about the viable path the Knicks can take to building a core and then building around that core. The Picks don't have to be #1 overall. #1 overall is not the only spot in a draft that produces players that can help a team become a winner.
The concept of drafting 3 core players is not unique to Washington and I think we have to open our minds and not be so immediately pessimistic about how the rest of the team can be built around that core.
[b]Stephen Curry Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (7th pick, 7th overall), 2009 NBA Draft
Klay Thompson Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (11th pick, 11th overall), 2011 NBA Draft
Draymond Green Draft: Golden State Warriors, 2nd round (5th pick, 35th overall), 2012 NBA Draft
[/b]
You can keep your core together and still build around them. You have to be smart in how you acquire talent and manage the cap. Thing is this problem is years down the line at this point for the Knicks. A lot can change between now and then in terms of their cap situation.The Knicks are building for AFTER the dominance of Lebron and Curry. We are talking about the long term development of this team. This is just the beginning of the process. It's a huge summer because of the very real opportunities the Knicks have to take advantage of.
Perhaps you should change the title to GS Warriors an example of what the Knicks could do...Unfortunately, the Warriors coach, and good friend of phil, had a chance to build a version of the Warriros here in NY, but chose to ran as far away from phil as possible.
Also, you seem to have a ton of insight in terms of what the Knicks are planning since you speak in absolutes. Since you have so much insight, maybe you should share this plan with phil because trading for Rose, Noah, Lee and giving Melo the NTC does not indicate that the Knicks are building for after Lebron and Curry. BTW Curry is only 29 yrs old...he ain't going nowhere anytime soon.
JESUS! Sigh... this has nothing to do with Kerr, Scott Brooks or Hornacek!!! I'm talking about the players
This isn't about Rose or CLee or Noah. This is about the DRAFT and long term construction of this team. The Knicks will be drafting this year and next. Why this isn't obvious to all I don't know. I don't need any special insight to figure that out.
Curry and Lebron will be trending down as the Knicks are on the way up. At least that is the hope if the Knicks are successful in drafting.
nixluva wrote:Uptown wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
WOW! Way to be totally pessimistic!!!No reason the Knicks are doomed to take 7 years to get to contention. This isn't about how long it took Washington. It's about the viable path the Knicks can take to building a core and then building around that core. The Picks don't have to be #1 overall. #1 overall is not the only spot in a draft that produces players that can help a team become a winner.
The concept of drafting 3 core players is not unique to Washington and I think we have to open our minds and not be so immediately pessimistic about how the rest of the team can be built around that core.
[b]Stephen Curry Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (7th pick, 7th overall), 2009 NBA Draft
Klay Thompson Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (11th pick, 11th overall), 2011 NBA Draft
Draymond Green Draft: Golden State Warriors, 2nd round (5th pick, 35th overall), 2012 NBA Draft
[/b]
You can keep your core together and still build around them. You have to be smart in how you acquire talent and manage the cap. Thing is this problem is years down the line at this point for the Knicks. A lot can change between now and then in terms of their cap situation.The Knicks are building for AFTER the dominance of Lebron and Curry. We are talking about the long term development of this team. This is just the beginning of the process. It's a huge summer because of the very real opportunities the Knicks have to take advantage of.
Perhaps you should change the title to GS Warriors an example of what the Knicks could do...Unfortunately, the Warriors coach, and good friend of phil, had a chance to build a version of the Warriros here in NY, but chose to ran as far away from phil as possible.
Also, you seem to have a ton of insight in terms of what the Knicks are planning since you speak in absolutes. Since you have so much insight, maybe you should share this plan with phil because trading for Rose, Noah, Lee and giving Melo the NTC does not indicate that the Knicks are building for after Lebron and Curry. BTW Curry is only 29 yrs old...he ain't going nowhere anytime soon.
JESUS! Sigh... this has nothing to do with Kerr, Scott Brooks or Hornacek!!! I'm talking about the players
This isn't about Rose or CLee or Noah. This is about the DRAFT and long term construction of this team. The Knicks will be drafting this year and next. Why this isn't obvious to all I don't know. I don't need any special insight to figure that out.
Curry and Lebron will be trending down as the Knicks are on the way up. At least that is the hope if the Knicks are successful in drafting.
Lee and Noah are on signed on for a few more years so it is still about them. Melo maybe back and Phil hasn't closed the door on resigning Rose. The Knicks have their own picks but they aren't stocked with picks like the Celtics or the Sixers. It is an important summer. Some great things could happen but there is the potential for Phil to make moves or signings like he has recently.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Uptown wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
WOW! Way to be totally pessimistic!!!No reason the Knicks are doomed to take 7 years to get to contention. This isn't about how long it took Washington. It's about the viable path the Knicks can take to building a core and then building around that core. The Picks don't have to be #1 overall. #1 overall is not the only spot in a draft that produces players that can help a team become a winner.
The concept of drafting 3 core players is not unique to Washington and I think we have to open our minds and not be so immediately pessimistic about how the rest of the team can be built around that core.
[b]Stephen Curry Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (7th pick, 7th overall), 2009 NBA Draft
Klay Thompson Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (11th pick, 11th overall), 2011 NBA Draft
Draymond Green Draft: Golden State Warriors, 2nd round (5th pick, 35th overall), 2012 NBA Draft
[/b]
You can keep your core together and still build around them. You have to be smart in how you acquire talent and manage the cap. Thing is this problem is years down the line at this point for the Knicks. A lot can change between now and then in terms of their cap situation.The Knicks are building for AFTER the dominance of Lebron and Curry. We are talking about the long term development of this team. This is just the beginning of the process. It's a huge summer because of the very real opportunities the Knicks have to take advantage of.
Perhaps you should change the title to GS Warriors an example of what the Knicks could do...Unfortunately, the Warriors coach, and good friend of phil, had a chance to build a version of the Warriros here in NY, but chose to ran as far away from phil as possible.
Also, you seem to have a ton of insight in terms of what the Knicks are planning since you speak in absolutes. Since you have so much insight, maybe you should share this plan with phil because trading for Rose, Noah, Lee and giving Melo the NTC does not indicate that the Knicks are building for after Lebron and Curry. BTW Curry is only 29 yrs old...he ain't going nowhere anytime soon.
JESUS! Sigh... this has nothing to do with Kerr, Scott Brooks or Hornacek!!! I'm talking about the players
This isn't about Rose or CLee or Noah. This is about the DRAFT and long term construction of this team. The Knicks will be drafting this year and next. Why this isn't obvious to all I don't know. I don't need any special insight to figure that out.
Curry and Lebron will be trending down as the Knicks are on the way up. At least that is the hope if the Knicks are successful in drafting.
Lee and Noah are on signed on for a few more years so it is still about them. Melo maybe back and Phil hasn't closed the door on resigning Rose. The Knicks have their own picks but they aren't stocked with picks like the Celtics or the Sixers. It is an important summer. Some great things could happen but there is the potential for Phil to make moves or signings like he has recently.
Neither CLee nor Noah present any serious problem right now. CLee might be traded but even if he stays it's not a problem in terms of Drafting Core Players! So NO, ITS NOT ABOUT THEM!
Knicks could use a few more picks and maybe they trade for some. Is this a serious issue tho? Good for Boston that they have a ton of picks but it means nothing in terms of what the Knicks will be able to do!!!
There are more chances for success than there are chances Phil would make a detrimental move this summer. It's a rebuild so most of the moves are going to be about building for the future and some about being competitive now.
HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
Well said
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Uptown wrote:nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
WOW! Way to be totally pessimistic!!!No reason the Knicks are doomed to take 7 years to get to contention. This isn't about how long it took Washington. It's about the viable path the Knicks can take to building a core and then building around that core. The Picks don't have to be #1 overall. #1 overall is not the only spot in a draft that produces players that can help a team become a winner.
The concept of drafting 3 core players is not unique to Washington and I think we have to open our minds and not be so immediately pessimistic about how the rest of the team can be built around that core.
[b]Stephen Curry Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (7th pick, 7th overall), 2009 NBA Draft
Klay Thompson Draft: Golden State Warriors, 1st round (11th pick, 11th overall), 2011 NBA Draft
Draymond Green Draft: Golden State Warriors, 2nd round (5th pick, 35th overall), 2012 NBA Draft
[/b]
You can keep your core together and still build around them. You have to be smart in how you acquire talent and manage the cap. Thing is this problem is years down the line at this point for the Knicks. A lot can change between now and then in terms of their cap situation.The Knicks are building for AFTER the dominance of Lebron and Curry. We are talking about the long term development of this team. This is just the beginning of the process. It's a huge summer because of the very real opportunities the Knicks have to take advantage of.
Perhaps you should change the title to GS Warriors an example of what the Knicks could do...Unfortunately, the Warriors coach, and good friend of phil, had a chance to build a version of the Warriros here in NY, but chose to ran as far away from phil as possible.
Also, you seem to have a ton of insight in terms of what the Knicks are planning since you speak in absolutes. Since you have so much insight, maybe you should share this plan with phil because trading for Rose, Noah, Lee and giving Melo the NTC does not indicate that the Knicks are building for after Lebron and Curry. BTW Curry is only 29 yrs old...he ain't going nowhere anytime soon.
JESUS! Sigh... this has nothing to do with Kerr, Scott Brooks or Hornacek!!! I'm talking about the players
This isn't about Rose or CLee or Noah. This is about the DRAFT and long term construction of this team. The Knicks will be drafting this year and next. Why this isn't obvious to all I don't know. I don't need any special insight to figure that out.
Curry and Lebron will be trending down as the Knicks are on the way up. At least that is the hope if the Knicks are successful in drafting.
Lee and Noah are on signed on for a few more years so it is still about them. Melo maybe back and Phil hasn't closed the door on resigning Rose. The Knicks have their own picks but they aren't stocked with picks like the Celtics or the Sixers. It is an important summer. Some great things could happen but there is the potential for Phil to make moves or signings like he has recently.Neither CLee nor Noah present any serious problem right now. CLee might be traded but even if he stays it's not a problem in terms of Drafting Core Players! So NO, ITS NOT ABOUT THEM!
Knicks could use a few more picks and maybe they trade for some. Is this a serious issue tho? Good for Boston that they have a ton of picks but it means nothing in terms of what the Knicks will be able to do!!!
There are more chances for success than there are chances Phil would make a detrimental move this summer. It's a rebuild so most of the moves are going to be about building for the future and some about being competitive now.
Dude, you're making a number of wild assumptions. How did you even ascertain that we are rebuilding? I've never heard Phil make this claim specifically, while his moves seem to indicate he is interested in winning-now i.e. signing Courtney Lee, Joakim Noah, Aaron Afflalo, Robin Lopez and trading for Derrick Rose. Yes, we have young players we've drafted....so does every other team in the league, who usually gets to draft a pair (a first and second rounder) almost every year. We are no different in that regard and have had some notable flameouts in Cleanthony Early (picked ahead of Nikola Jokic) and Jerian Grant (picked ahead of Justin Anderson and Bobby Portis), so I'm skeptical of what Phil would do even if we were to actually rebuild.
NardDogNation wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:You look at the Wizards now and basically that's what the Knicks will be looking to do going forward.John Wall Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (1st pick, 1st overall), 2010 NBA Draft
Bradley Beal Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2012 NBA Draft
Otto Porter Draft: Washington Wizards, 1st round (3rd pick, 3rd overall), 2013 NBA Draft
Kelly Oubre Jr. Draft: Atlanta Hawks, 1st round (15th pick, 15th overall), 2015 NBA Draft - Atlanta Hawks (traded to Washington Wizards for Tim Hardaway Jr.)The Knicks can build a new core and key reserves through the draft. This draft is of course very important for the future prospects of the team. The Wall, Beal and Porter combo is the core of their drafting. IMO you need at least 3 core players coming from the draft. This combined with smart FA signings and Trades. The thing is it's much easier to fill in around a core of drafted players.
The development of those players is of course just as important. I think next season will be a very important year for development and Jeff has to show improvement as well. They can start to really build continuity and chemistry if they have a good development year next season. Show some growth individually and as a team.
Phil has to step up his work as well. They have to get more picks and assets going forward. Hope for more hits in the draft and continued player development. His signings have to have a higher success rate as well. He must come thru on his promise to find 2 Way Team Oriented players. He can't have anymore bad fits.
So 7 YEARS to win 49 Games and get ousted in second round? And whats going to happen after 2018 season when Wall is UFA? Commit 2 players to almost 60 Million of your cap? Porter? Problem is that its very hard to pick three core players, three years in a row. If you dont do that then you have your core players expiring and if they are really good you have to take up lots of Cap room. Or lose them. Problem Wiz will have before they win anything.
Think the formula is to get a game changer and surround him with support. Ie. Melo back before injuries. If you have some young pieces prior, then great. If you look at Boston, they were not very good until they brought in one of the best PG's in the League. They would probably still be a .500 team without him in spite of all their draft picks. But guess there is no magic solution. There are so many good players and teams in the league but there will always just be 1 that met their goal. And with players like LBJ or Curry, it is going to be hard for any team to put together a squad to beat them.
Well said
Is it well said? If the point is that it's HARD to build a Championship team well NO SHYTE SHERLOCK! No one is suggesting that it's not the most difficult thing to do. But that's not really the point. There has to be some kind of process involved in order to build this team up. You want a long term competitive team? Well you have a chance to actually build one with your own players at the core!
The Knicks are on the path towards being able to put a team on the court that is made up of a lot of their own home grown players. I don't know if that has really kicked in yet with the fans that are down on the team. That's a good thing. in a very short time we'll find out how this goes but the prospects are very exciting.
With great scouting and a little luck this could be a good summer for the build. Let's hope we get some breaks in the Lottery. The good news is that there are some talented players all the way up to 10.