Knicks · Geometric Antiquities (page 2)
martin wrote:Gudris wrote:They had Kobe(guard) and Jordan(guard), we need great guard to win with TriangleYou need great players to win with any system. Phil happened to have couple of guards.
Al of that does not mean you need great guards to win with Triangle.
That's probably true, but we have yet to see that happen, so we have to base everything on what we have witness.
you definitely need a pure scorer in that system, even he said that, which is why he chase Melo and gave him the NTC
Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?
The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
Yes!
Do you stop trying to acquire and cultivate the desired talent? GSW at the time Mark Jax was fired had been built over a 5 year period with new ownership. Jax had a level of dysfunction but had good relatioships with his star players. The move to Steve Kerr was in part of his input that they open up the game for the roster as it was.
As it was.
When Knicks bought in MDA to coach the sloth that was our team, it was under the presumption that the team would be changed to reflext MDA system.
But when you start afresh, why would you not build it the way you want the finished product? If you have a super talented Melo who swears allegiance not just verbally, but by becoming a free agent and resigning with the knicks. Do you think it was not discussed what was expected by both parties? Did Melo have expectations? Did the knicks? I think on both accounts they did.
Was Melo, the league leading scorer the year before not capable of passing? Playing defense? Rebounding? Did he not say he was willing to "Sacrifice game" for the good of the team? Since when is near max money and a NTC to a team not good enough and why is it a "Sacrifice" to Melo to want to play in a system that has proven to be successful when Phil Jax is in the room? I don't have the answer, but actions dictate Melo has his own agenda. Thats not cool in my book.
Not that Melo is Jordan, or Kobe, but he could have embraced the system and if it failed, then so be it, but is he paid to hang points and poke his headband or be one fifth of a unit trying to win games?
As always, Melo is not a bad guy, is a good teammate but its not like Phil is some vindictive person always out to put himself over others. He has embraced and worked to understand many types of players as a coach with the goal of winning in mind. Calling out players is a tactic used when all else fails. Holding the ball is not a personal afront. We can win and lose with or without melo and if he wants to win he has been told to go elsewhere. That tells me he has his own agenda.
Time for Melo to move on. Time to keep moving forward with a plan.
So yeah, rebuild with a goal in mind. But if the team was good, then bring a coach to enhance it.
Woodsons 37 win team was not on the right trajectory.
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
Yes!
Do you stop trying to acquire and cultivate the desired talent? GSW at the time Mark Jax was fired had been built over a 5 year period with new ownership. Jax had a level of dysfunction but had good relatioships with his star players. The move to Steve Kerr was in part of his input that they open up the game for the roster as it was.
As it was.
When Knicks bought in MDA to coach the sloth that was our team, it was under the presumption that the team would be changed to reflext MDA system.
But when you start afresh, why would you not build it the way you want the finished product? If you have a super talented Melo who swears allegiance not just verbally, but by becoming a free agent and resigning with the knicks. Do you think it was not discussed what was expected by both parties? Did Melo have expectations? Did the knicks? I think on both accounts they did.
Was Melo, the league leading scorer the year before not capable of passing? Playing defense? Rebounding? Did he not say he was willing to "Sacrifice game" for the good of the team? Since when is near max money and a NTC to a team not good enough and why is it a "Sacrifice" to Melo to want to play in a system that has proven to be successful when Phil Jax is in the room? I don't have the answer, but actions dictate Melo has his own agenda. Thats not cool in my book.
Not that Melo is Jordan, or Kobe, but he could have embraced the system and if it failed, then so be it, but is he paid to hang points and poke his headband or be one fifth of a unit trying to win games?As always, Melo is not a bad guy, is a good teammate but its not like Phil is some vindictive person always out to put himself over others. He has embraced and worked to understand many types of players as a coach with the goal of winning in mind. Calling out players is a tactic used when all else fails. Holding the ball is not a personal afront. We can win and lose with or without melo and if he wants to win he has been told to go elsewhere. That tells me he has his own agenda.
Time for Melo to move on. Time to keep moving forward with a plan.
So yeah, rebuild with a goal in mind. But if the team was good, then bring a coach to enhance it.
Woodsons 37 win team was not on the right trajectory.
Carmelo in 2012
In a separate sit-down with the Journal, the 6-foot-8 Anthony said the scoring aspect of his game doesn't matter nearly as much to him much anymore. "I'm tired of scoring 30 or 40 points a game. There's probably going to be times where I have to do it, or I'm in a groove," he said, promoting his new Jordan brand shoe line. "But if I'm doing that night-in, night-out, we're not going to have the balance that we need to win."http://bleacherreport.com/articles/13543...Anthony certainly has a point, and it's a point that his detractors have been making since his days with the Denver Nuggets. When the ball stops moving and 'Melo starts isolating, his teammates lose their rhythm and threaten to disappear from games altogether. Kobe Bryant has dealt with the same thing at times, and many great scorers do.
Yes, Anthony has a point—we just shouldn't be too quick to believe it.
The thing is multiple coaches tried to get Melo to buy into making better use of his teammates by passing out when he's doubled. Just moving the ball period and moving himself so that he can get more open quick Catch and Shoot looks and keep the team FLOW going. This isn't some outlandish ask from Melo. It should've been easy. He did show that he COULD in fact do it last season when he had a 3 month stretch of 5 assists a game.
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
Who said we don't have appropriate talent to run it? Who can best judge the type of talent needed to run the triangle? You or Phil? I am going wit Phil because I think he is better looking. 11 rings running the triangle be damned.
meloshouldgo wrote:8 undrafted players and 2 second round picks is the right talent? One of the first round picks on the roster is a free agent, Phil wants to trade his best player, and Noah is injured and suspended. Is this what roster building looks like three years in? The Knicks don't have the talent to win no matter what system they play. Do they do have enough guys that are hoping to get another year in the league that they will do anything.knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
Who said we don't have appropriate talent to run it? Who can best judge the type of talent needed to run the triangle? You or Phil? I am going wit Phil because I think he is better looking. 11 rings running the triangle be damned.
CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:8 undrafted players and 2 second round picks is the right talent? One of the first round picks on the roster is a free agent, Phil wants to trade his best player, and Noah is injured and suspended. Is this what roster building looks like three years in? The Knicks don't have the talent to win no matter what system they play. Do they do have enough guys that are hoping to get another year in the league that they will do anything.knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
Who said we don't have appropriate talent to run it? Who can best judge the type of talent needed to run the triangle? You or Phil? I am going wit Phil because I think he is better looking. 11 rings running the triangle be damned.
Come on Crush!!! The KP draft was the only one we had our 1st rd pick. Thank goodness Phil got Willy cuz he's like a 1st rd pick. As for the role players it's a good thing to have some low cost players who fit the style you want to play.
Moves made to try and build something with Melo didn't work but we can now move forward with building a new young core! Stop worrying about the 3 yrs so far as if that in itself means anything. What matters is how successfully they can build this new core and develop the team.
The Knicks need some luck as all teams do. The thing is this is a good year to be in the Lottery if you need perimeter players as the Knicks do!!! You can whine and moan about the past or look at the opportunities ahead of this team.
nixluva wrote:This quote is from June of 2014. Phil thought he had gotten the right players back then. All of those guys are gone now.CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:8 undrafted players and 2 second round picks is the right talent? One of the first round picks on the roster is a free agent, Phil wants to trade his best player, and Noah is injured and suspended. Is this what roster building looks like three years in? The Knicks don't have the talent to win no matter what system they play. Do they do have enough guys that are hoping to get another year in the league that they will do anything.knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
Who said we don't have appropriate talent to run it? Who can best judge the type of talent needed to run the triangle? You or Phil? I am going wit Phil because I think he is better looking. 11 rings running the triangle be damned.
Come on Crush!!! The KP draft was the only one we had our 1st rd pick. Thank goodness Phil got Willy cuz he's like a 1st rd pick. As for the role players it's a good thing to have some low cost players who fit the style you want to play.
Moves made to try and build something with Melo didn't work but we can now move forward with building a new young core! Stop worrying about the 3 yrs so far as if that in itself means anything. What matters is how successfully they can build this new core and develop the team.
The Knicks need some luck as all teams do. The thing is this is a good year to be in the Lottery if you need perimeter players as the Knicks do!!! You can whine and moan about the past or look at the opportunities ahead of this team.
"The journey to build this team for the upcoming season and beyond continues," Knicks President Phil Jackson said in a news release. "We have added players with this move that will fit right in to our system while maintaining future flexibility."We would like to thank Raymond and Tyson for their time and hard work with the organization over the past few years."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb...
I find it very hard to be optimistic about the future when I have observed Phil for 3+ years as an executive. If he had said he was going to work harder at being an executive, hired a young gm and let him handle things etc. I would feel better.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:This quote is from June of 2014. Phil thought he had gotten the right players back then. All of those guys are gone now.CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:8 undrafted players and 2 second round picks is the right talent? One of the first round picks on the roster is a free agent, Phil wants to trade his best player, and Noah is injured and suspended. Is this what roster building looks like three years in? The Knicks don't have the talent to win no matter what system they play. Do they do have enough guys that are hoping to get another year in the league that they will do anything.knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:
What coach has success without great players?The question that everyone has to ask themselves, DO you continue to run a system you don't have the appropriate talent to run it ?
Who said we don't have appropriate talent to run it? Who can best judge the type of talent needed to run the triangle? You or Phil? I am going wit Phil because I think he is better looking. 11 rings running the triangle be damned.
Come on Crush!!! The KP draft was the only one we had our 1st rd pick. Thank goodness Phil got Willy cuz he's like a 1st rd pick. As for the role players it's a good thing to have some low cost players who fit the style you want to play.
Moves made to try and build something with Melo didn't work but we can now move forward with building a new young core! Stop worrying about the 3 yrs so far as if that in itself means anything. What matters is how successfully they can build this new core and develop the team.
The Knicks need some luck as all teams do. The thing is this is a good year to be in the Lottery if you need perimeter players as the Knicks do!!! You can whine and moan about the past or look at the opportunities ahead of this team.
"The journey to build this team for the upcoming season and beyond continues," Knicks President Phil Jackson said in a news release. "We have added players with this move that will fit right in to our system while maintaining future flexibility."We would like to thank Raymond and Tyson for their time and hard work with the organization over the past few years."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb...I find it very hard to be optimistic about the future when I have observed Phil for 3+ years as an executive. If he had said he was going to work harder at being an executive, hired a young gm and let him handle things etc. I would feel better.
Again! COME ON CRUSH! After making moves what Prez/GM isn't going to talk positively about the moves??? This is just GM speak. They all talk like this. Also you're not keeping things in perspective. Did any of those players have even the slightest potential to be impact players? Is that what you think Phil was trying to say? What was the expectation for that roster? Was it to be a Title Contender? Is that what you think Phil was trying to say?
It just gets a bit too much to go back to that and TOTALLY ignore what's in front of this team. Have we not drafted KP and Willy who are nice young players? Do we not have a top 10 1st rd pick in a very nice draft? This isn't a bad situation and the potential for positive movement this summer is actually high. You can't get past this notion that Phil is incapable of doing anything right which IMO is really overdoing it. When it comes to young players he's done a lot right and has the chance to do even more.
In Fact Phil seems to be coming around to the fact that he can't get these Vets like Melo to conform and that it's better to bring in young players with open minds and without too many calcified habits that they can't be coached. I think he sees that the younger players were much more compliant and he can get more done with young talent going forward. The KP incident notwithstanding MOST of the kids were buying in and showed progress. THIS is what you should be focusing on rather that that other crap!