Knicks · Begley Article: Porzingis' skipped meeting led multiple teams to call Knicks (page 2)
The only exception I would make is a deal possibly involving multiple top 5 picks, if its a strong draft class at the top. Otherwise its a waste. Its very unlikely you will find a player with KP's skill set in a big with low first round picks. Or find a player with his potential with just one high pick.
Better odds for the team to build around KP, than a player(s) to be named later who may never be as good as Porzingis.
GustavBahler wrote:If we dont get back a player with equal potential for Porzingis. Someone who has been setting NBA records since he got into the league, then its a waste of a trade. The players we would get back we will likely find that mgmt would have been able to acquire without KP. Maybe not the same exact player, but the same skill set.The only exception I would make is a deal possibly involving multiple top 5 picks, if its a strong draft class at the top. Otherwise its a waste. Its very unlikely you will find a player with KP's skill set in a big with low first round picks. Or find a player with his potential with just one high pick.
Better odds for the team to build around KP, than a player(s) to be named later who may never be as good as Porzingis.
Im sure teams are calling Minny about Towns after only winning 31 games this season as well. Lakers should as they love that "Great tradition of centers" thing. Same for KP, Davis as they did with Cousins. If some team wants to blow us away with some package they should present it to Phil. As for acceptance, thats a different story. KP has not demanded a trade or made any public statement about anything. He sent a message that perhaps knicks should not take him for granted. At the same time, the kid needs to deliver and play 75 games. Maybe there is frustration from knicks that Janis is handling the kid in a way the knicks don't like either.
We can only guess.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:If we dont get back a player with equal potential for Porzingis. Someone who has been setting NBA records since he got into the league, then its a waste of a trade. The players we would get back we will likely find that mgmt would have been able to acquire without KP. Maybe not the same exact player, but the same skill set.The only exception I would make is a deal possibly involving multiple top 5 picks, if its a strong draft class at the top. Otherwise its a waste. Its very unlikely you will find a player with KP's skill set in a big with low first round picks. Or find a player with his potential with just one high pick.
Better odds for the team to build around KP, than a player(s) to be named later who may never be as good as Porzingis.
Im sure teams are calling Minny about Towns after only winning 31 games this season as well. Lakers should as they love that "Great tradition of centers" thing. Same for KP, Davis as they did with Cousins. If some team wants to blow us away with some package they should present it to Phil. As for acceptance, thats a different story. KP has not demanded a trade or made any public statement about anything. He sent a message that perhaps knicks should not take him for granted. At the same time, the kid needs to deliver and play 75 games. Maybe there is frustration from knicks that Janis is handling the kid in a way the knicks don't like either.
We can only guess.
I think the KP situation is different from Towns. KP skipped his exit meeting and liked Melo's tweet. Not a super big deal and very fixable. However, I think because ofthe Knicks Management, teams saw this as a possible opportunity where the Knicks would do something stupid again. Phil is very stubborn and has made moves that appeared to be reactive in the past and minimally were not well thought out. Making that call was the smart thing to do. My guess is gms keep checking back to see if KP does become available.
Gudris wrote:Nalod wrote:Gudris wrote:i hope they wont trade KP, or if they do than to Nets please, i love NY, it is cheapest flight tickets to fly from europe to NBA watch games :)There is a rumor in Latvia that he skipped exit meeting because of his big brother(manager) Janis conflict with Knicks and has nothing to do with Melo or KP frustration
Any info about what the conflict is?
No its just a rumor, sadly i dont know any person that is close to KP or his family
With some of the things his brother had to say after everything it wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot of him skipping that meeting had to do with his brother.
Nalod wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Can't see us trade KP
But he deserves his "off the table" label aka untouchable status revoked after the lack of professionalism he showedI'm one of his big fans and I get accused of being Latvian lol but Knicks should push back and show KP he cannot do that stuff. Being open to trade talks should put KP in his place a little and not let him think he can do whatever he wants
I mean if they actually traded him I'd be pissed but this is not a problem for me. Skipping an exit meeting was extremely uncool considering management has always had KPs back. KP seems to have forgiven all those lame fans that booed him or questioned him on draft day but not recalling that Phil, Knicks are the franchise that gave him a chance and have brought him along slowly and well in a manner he is extremely protected. Was very uncool of KP to show that disrespect to the same guys who drafted him and took a chance on him.
There's no bigger KP fan than me and i was one of the few that wanted us to draft him from the start but i agree with everything you're saying. This kid is 21 and has been in the league for 2 years and for him to already make a move like this could actually turn into a bad thing if we just let him get away with it. I hope to hell we don't trade him but i think talking to teams and listening to all offers and making sure KP knows about it is the right thing to do.
I prefer to keep it to basketball only and let the business side sort itself out over time. "Letting him get away with it"? Its a moral judgement we know little about and we rush to weigh in on what happened, when we don't know.
All players want to "win", at least publicly. Nalod is cool with letting it all play out. KP can't be free for three years. For all we know our unicorn after his disney story aired might have been seen as a teen idol type and not playing well with potential sponsors. So perhaps the unicorn gets a few Tats this summer, kicks up to add some "danger" to his rep and start selling vodka back home. Who the hell knows what his beef is, or his brother. Maybe Janis wants money, room on the plane, and other things. Phil is not too keen on treating played differently. We saw what Marbury did, Lebron has played havoc with front offices when empowered, and maybe the Portzingus "Posse" is a little too full of themselves? I don't know, just me guessing.
If there was discord among knick coach's and KP getting mixed signals then the team has to fix it going forward. This summer, get the roster fixed and either move on from Melo or make peace with who he is and visa versa.
Well we all have our own opinion on him skipping that meeting but i stand by what i said in that they shouldn't let him get away with skipping the meeting and make sure he knows who he works for.
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:If we dont get back a player with equal potential for Porzingis. Someone who has been setting NBA records since he got into the league, then its a waste of a trade. The players we would get back we will likely find that mgmt would have been able to acquire without KP. Maybe not the same exact player, but the same skill set.The only exception I would make is a deal possibly involving multiple top 5 picks, if its a strong draft class at the top. Otherwise its a waste. Its very unlikely you will find a player with KP's skill set in a big with low first round picks. Or find a player with his potential with just one high pick.
Better odds for the team to build around KP, than a player(s) to be named later who may never be as good as Porzingis.
Im sure teams are calling Minny about Towns after only winning 31 games this season as well. Lakers should as they love that "Great tradition of centers" thing. Same for KP, Davis as they did with Cousins. If some team wants to blow us away with some package they should present it to Phil. As for acceptance, thats a different story. KP has not demanded a trade or made any public statement about anything. He sent a message that perhaps knicks should not take him for granted. At the same time, the kid needs to deliver and play 75 games. Maybe there is frustration from knicks that Janis is handling the kid in a way the knicks don't like either.
We can only guess.
I think the KP situation is different from Towns. KP skipped his exit meeting and liked Melo's tweet. Not a super big deal and very fixable. However, I think because ofthe Knicks Management, teams saw this as a possible opportunity where the Knicks would do something stupid again. Phil is very stubborn and has made moves that appeared to be reactive in the past and minimally were not well thought out. Making that call was the smart thing to do. My guess is gms keep checking back to see if KP does become available.
You don't have to think its a different situation from Towns, its entirely different. All I said was there might be calls for what ever reason, like a new coach that thinks Towns might not be his guy! Entirely speculative by me and just an example. I would say they are getting calls about Wiggins and I have no idea if thats on Minny's agenda. They have a puzzle to solve, thats all I know.
When have the knicks made a trade of this nature that is remotely the same that was either justified or ignorant under phil? What was "reactive" that would promote a clear cut "Trend"?
The only thing I can think of tradig KP is Phil does not think his body will hold up and will be an injury concern. Thats part KP and part Big man mobile generic experience by lots of guys historically in the NBA. Not Shawn Bradley, but Ralph Sampson, Ewing (Mobility lost by late 20s), Yao Ming, Bill Walton, Embiid, Etc. KP is unique in so many ways I can't at all slot him to anyone but Dirk and he is far more athletic than Dirk was. I hope KP is not traded.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:If we dont get back a player with equal potential for Porzingis. Someone who has been setting NBA records since he got into the league, then its a waste of a trade. The players we would get back we will likely find that mgmt would have been able to acquire without KP. Maybe not the same exact player, but the same skill set.The only exception I would make is a deal possibly involving multiple top 5 picks, if its a strong draft class at the top. Otherwise its a waste. Its very unlikely you will find a player with KP's skill set in a big with low first round picks. Or find a player with his potential with just one high pick.
Better odds for the team to build around KP, than a player(s) to be named later who may never be as good as Porzingis.
Im sure teams are calling Minny about Towns after only winning 31 games this season as well. Lakers should as they love that "Great tradition of centers" thing. Same for KP, Davis as they did with Cousins. If some team wants to blow us away with some package they should present it to Phil. As for acceptance, thats a different story. KP has not demanded a trade or made any public statement about anything. He sent a message that perhaps knicks should not take him for granted. At the same time, the kid needs to deliver and play 75 games. Maybe there is frustration from knicks that Janis is handling the kid in a way the knicks don't like either.
We can only guess.
Exactly... That's why I get mad at these reporters. Every team is going to touch base and see what's going on Around them. KP is a good player. Phil isn't going to give him away if the opportunity presented itself.... but let's say the Knicks draft or find a big man that fits better with Willy. Even vice versa. We might have to make a trade at some point. It all depends how this thing goes. KP for Boston's Brooklyn pick would do it... maybe Minnesota for Wiggins and a pick... hey you never know but it definitely won't be for nothing less than huge
EnySpree wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:If we dont get back a player with equal potential for Porzingis. Someone who has been setting NBA records since he got into the league, then its a waste of a trade. The players we would get back we will likely find that mgmt would have been able to acquire without KP. Maybe not the same exact player, but the same skill set.The only exception I would make is a deal possibly involving multiple top 5 picks, if its a strong draft class at the top. Otherwise its a waste. Its very unlikely you will find a player with KP's skill set in a big with low first round picks. Or find a player with his potential with just one high pick.
Better odds for the team to build around KP, than a player(s) to be named later who may never be as good as Porzingis.
Im sure teams are calling Minny about Towns after only winning 31 games this season as well. Lakers should as they love that "Great tradition of centers" thing. Same for KP, Davis as they did with Cousins. If some team wants to blow us away with some package they should present it to Phil. As for acceptance, thats a different story. KP has not demanded a trade or made any public statement about anything. He sent a message that perhaps knicks should not take him for granted. At the same time, the kid needs to deliver and play 75 games. Maybe there is frustration from knicks that Janis is handling the kid in a way the knicks don't like either.
We can only guess.
Exactly... That's why I get mad at these reporters. Every team is going to touch base and see what's going on Around them. KP is a good player. Phil isn't going to give him away if the opportunity presented itself.... but let's say the Knicks draft or find a big man that fits better with Willy. Even vice versa. We might have to make a trade at some point. It all depends how this thing goes. KP for Boston's Brooklyn pick would do it... maybe Minnesota for Wiggins and a pick... hey you never know but it definitely won't be for nothing less than huge
Phil isn't stupid. He knows the value of KP and for this franchise after Melo it's important to have a face of the franchise that is not only talented but marketable. KP is loved by the fanbase and they will only grow more attached if KP matures into his frame and starts to dominate as he should. I'm not even paying attention to the Media Noise. The love to start crap with the Knicks. I repeat the MEDIA LOVES TO START CRAP WITH THE KNICKS!!!
EnySpree wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:If we dont get back a player with equal potential for Porzingis. Someone who has been setting NBA records since he got into the league, then its a waste of a trade. The players we would get back we will likely find that mgmt would have been able to acquire without KP. Maybe not the same exact player, but the same skill set.The only exception I would make is a deal possibly involving multiple top 5 picks, if its a strong draft class at the top. Otherwise its a waste. Its very unlikely you will find a player with KP's skill set in a big with low first round picks. Or find a player with his potential with just one high pick.
Better odds for the team to build around KP, than a player(s) to be named later who may never be as good as Porzingis.
Im sure teams are calling Minny about Towns after only winning 31 games this season as well. Lakers should as they love that "Great tradition of centers" thing. Same for KP, Davis as they did with Cousins. If some team wants to blow us away with some package they should present it to Phil. As for acceptance, thats a different story. KP has not demanded a trade or made any public statement about anything. He sent a message that perhaps knicks should not take him for granted. At the same time, the kid needs to deliver and play 75 games. Maybe there is frustration from knicks that Janis is handling the kid in a way the knicks don't like either.
We can only guess.
Exactly... That's why I get mad at these reporters. Every team is going to touch base and see what's going on Around them. KP is a good player. Phil isn't going to give him away if the opportunity presented itself.... but let's say the Knicks draft or find a big man that fits better with Willy. Even vice versa. We might have to make a trade at some point. It all depends how this thing goes. KP for Boston's Brooklyn pick would do it... maybe Minnesota for Wiggins and a pick... hey you never know but it definitely won't be for nothing less than huge
A team should inquire about KP, and I would say its more like "Hey, if KP wants out, give me a call we'd be interested"........any GM who likes KP should make such a call if they are doing their job. Maybe Phil calls Pilinka back and says......"Melo and KP for..........half your team......"
Reporters have to write stuff and if it evokes an emotion or response, its a good article. It got us going didn't it?????
If you hate phil then its easy to extrapolate a phil type response with some "PHIL FEAR"!!!
Phil is scary I admit, but I also dig the no BS attitude. He don't care. I thought last years inclusion of Noah and rose with Melo was "go big or go home" took balls. Noah's deal is not a franchise killer. Melo has played healthy and more or less what we expected of him. Rose was a small risk. Noah gets healthy and can go 20 min a nite, and we get to .500, we'll all be happier!!
HIs only talk should be asking how he can get better. When he starts leading on the court, he can lead off the court.
If you hate phil then its easy to extrapolate a phil type response with some "PHIL FEAR"!!!
Phil is scary I admit, but I also dig the no BS attitude. He don't care. I thought last years inclusion of Noah and rose with Melo was "go big or go home" took balls. Noah's deal is not a franchise killer. Melo has played healthy and more or less what we expected of him. Rose was a small risk. Noah gets healthy and can go 20 min a nite, and we get to .500, we'll all be happier!!
Noahs deal is really close to a franchise killer. The problem is the length of the contract and the fact that Noah is always injured. Combine that with a Melo who is unhappy and a long contract to a declining Courtney Lee you have a huge problem.
Getting to .500 is not possible with this core the way I see it - without any change we will be closer to 0.050.
When it comes to Porzingis's value I think a lot of fans overestimate him. I still believe that he is not one of the 10 best bigs in the league. He is talented, but he is not as good as guys like Davis, Cousins and Towns.
MG22 wrote:If you hate phil then its easy to extrapolate a phil type response with some "PHIL FEAR"!!!
Phil is scary I admit, but I also dig the no BS attitude. He don't care. I thought last years inclusion of Noah and rose with Melo was "go big or go home" took balls. Noah's deal is not a franchise killer. Melo has played healthy and more or less what we expected of him. Rose was a small risk. Noah gets healthy and can go 20 min a nite, and we get to .500, we'll all be happier!!
Noahs deal is really close to a franchise killer. The problem is the length of the contract and the fact that Noah is always injured. Combine that with a Melo who is unhappy and a long contract to a declining Courtney Lee you have a huge problem.
Getting to .500 is not possible with this core the way I see it - without any change we will be closer to 0.050.When it comes to Porzingis's value I think a lot of fans overestimate him. I still believe that he is not one of the 10 best bigs in the league. He is talented, but he is not as good as guys like Davis, Cousins and Towns.
Noah's health can be an issue if he can't stay on the floor in a lesser role going forward but we'll have to wait and see. Yr 1 wasn't good. CLee isn't a problem.
KP still has tremendous potential. Have to remember that KP has produced AHEAD of schedule. He was so skinny at the start that he wasn't expected to be as good early on as he's been. He's just a slow developer. Some guys fill out slower than others. He'll get stronger and refine his skills. It's not how you start but how you finish.
Noah's health can be an issue if he can't stay on the floor in a lesser role going forward but we'll have to wait and see. Yr 1 wasn't good. CLee isn't a problem.KP still has tremendous potential. Have to remember that KP has produced AHEAD of schedule. He was so skinny at the start that he wasn't expected to be as good early on as he's been. He's just a slow developer. Some guys fill out slower than others. He'll get stronger and refine his skills. It's not how you start but how you finish.
We disagree on Lee. The problem is that his salary is rising, and we will have him on his current contract until 2020. He will be 32 in October, which isn't a problem. The problem is that he will then be 33, 34 and so on, on the same contract. Paying Lee 12mio next season isn't a problem, but paying him 13 in 19/20 is a problem the way I see it.
When it comes to Noah I really can't see him comeback to his former level, and not even getting close to it. He has been injured so much in reason years that his athleticism has declined heavily. It's a shame I really like the guy.
When it comes to Porzingis I totally agree it's about how you finish. I just think that you finish higher in a good atmosphere and not in a dramaclub like the Knicks is at the moment. That is also why I think the most important thing for the Knicks at the moment is to get guys that can create a great spirit in the locker room to help develop a culture and a positive atmosphere. That is why I believe a Porzingis trade should involve Crowder.
I'm sorry to say, but I think Porzingis needs to play in a system that really fits him, and with teammates that fits the system. That is not Knicks at the moment. I can't see him as a top 3 big in the future unless he is in the right system for him. He is not that good, that he can play great in any system.
Noah's contract is not that bad. It is bad because we have Willy. Centers are generally overpaid. Is he too old to be a great player? Maybe, maybe not. We can't be sure until he is healed. He was once 75% FT player and now 0.436. It doesn't make sense because FT skill usually age well. I think it is something wrong about his body, and I have to blame Phil or anyone responsible not checking it out.
That said, until knicks win salary cap don't mean much. Then this is why a lot of people are so angry about Phil. They like Melo and really thought it was time for Melo to win now. It is shame Melo didn't have a chance, but somewhat he deserves it because he is the leader of this team. He should have hold himself accountable. He should have hold this team accountable.
mlby1215 wrote:Lee's salary will be about the same, but the cap raise faster. It is not a problem. Sure he will be worse, but as Knicks, it is the only way to sign FA. It is called overpay. If we don't want that, then we have to win some games.Noah's contract is not that bad. It is bad because we have Willy. Centers are generally overpaid. Is he too old to be a great player? Maybe, maybe not. We can't be sure until he is healed. He was once 75% FT player and now 0.436. It doesn't make sense because FT skill usually age well. I think it is something wrong about his body, and I have to blame Phil or anyone responsible not checking it out.
That said, until knicks win salary cap don't mean much. Then this is why a lot of people are so angry about Phil. They like Melo and really thought it was time for Melo to win now. It is shame Melo didn't have a chance, but somewhat he deserves it because he is the leader of this team. He should have hold himself accountable. He should have hold this team accountable.
The Rolo trade in itself wasnt that bad it was bad but what compounded it was signing Noah. Had the Knicks decided they were clearing minutes for Porzingis, Willy, and Oquinn up front and used that money on a SF that trade makes sense. However signing Noah made destroyed any short term chance for improvement by the Knicks. Tat awful contract puts us in a 3 year tanking mode. If im the Knicks I trade Porzingis to the Celtics for multiple picks. Dont try to sign any FA's take on bad contracts for lottery picks. Help facilitate trades by taking salary where picks are the price to absorb bad contracts. I dont see another way
mlby1215 wrote:Lee's salary will be about the same, but the cap raise faster. It is not a problem. Sure he will be worse, but as Knicks, it is the only way to sign FA. It is called overpay. If we don't want that, then we have to win some games.Noah's contract is not that bad. It is bad because we have Willy. Centers are generally overpaid. Is he too old to be a great player? Maybe, maybe not. We can't be sure until he is healed. He was once 75% FT player and now 0.436. It doesn't make sense because FT skill usually age well. I think it is something wrong about his body, and I have to blame Phil or anyone responsible not checking it out.
That said, until knicks win salary cap don't mean much. Then this is why a lot of people are so angry about Phil. They like Melo and really thought it was time for Melo to win now. It is shame Melo didn't have a chance, but somewhat he deserves it because he is the leader of this team. He should have hold himself accountable. He should have hold this team accountable.
The Rolo trade in itself wasnt that bad it was bad but what compounded it was signing Noah. Had the Knicks decided they were clearing minutes for Porzingis, Willy, and Oquinn up front and used that money on a SF that trade makes sense. However signing Noah made destroyed any short term chance for improvement by the Knicks. Tat awful contract puts us in a 3 year tanking mode. If im the Knicks I trade Porzingis to the Celtics for multiple picks. Dont try to sign any FA's take on bad contracts for lottery picks. Help facilitate trades by taking salary where picks are the price to absorb bad contracts. I dont see another way
Trading away KP is very hard to do. In basketball, it might make sense but in reality, he is the most important ally Phil has. Phil drafted him, and gave him the chance to be a starter. Why would he hate a guy gave him everything and now even give him the team? KP might like Melo, but his brothers probably don't. They probably instead want the team have four defenders and let KP shoot every time a.k.a Melo offense system. What his brothers didn't like probably is that Knicks didn't want KP to play for his country. It is understandable, and it is fixable.
In short, trading KP is very dangerous because he has the potential to be a superstar. However, he has to realize he is going to be the leader of Knicks, and has to learn to lead by example.
Jmpasq wrote:mlby1215 wrote:Lee's salary will be about the same, but the cap raise faster. It is not a problem. Sure he will be worse, but as Knicks, it is the only way to sign FA. It is called overpay. If we don't want that, then we have to win some games.Noah's contract is not that bad. It is bad because we have Willy. Centers are generally overpaid. Is he too old to be a great player? Maybe, maybe not. We can't be sure until he is healed. He was once 75% FT player and now 0.436. It doesn't make sense because FT skill usually age well. I think it is something wrong about his body, and I have to blame Phil or anyone responsible not checking it out.
That said, until knicks win salary cap don't mean much. Then this is why a lot of people are so angry about Phil. They like Melo and really thought it was time for Melo to win now. It is shame Melo didn't have a chance, but somewhat he deserves it because he is the leader of this team. He should have hold himself accountable. He should have hold this team accountable.
The Rolo trade in itself wasnt that bad it was bad but what compounded it was signing Noah. Had the Knicks decided they were clearing minutes for Porzingis, Willy, and Oquinn up front and used that money on a SF that trade makes sense. However signing Noah made destroyed any short term chance for improvement by the Knicks. Tat awful contract puts us in a 3 year tanking mode. If im the Knicks I trade Porzingis to the Celtics for multiple picks. Dont try to sign any FA's take on bad contracts for lottery picks. Help facilitate trades by taking salary where picks are the price to absorb bad contracts. I dont see another way
Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
toodarkmark wrote:I hope he gets to be traded so he doesnt have to suffer being on such a loser of a franchise like the Knicks. Any player with talent who has James Dolan for a boss is looking for career suicide.Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
WOW! I don't want talented players to leave just because of Dolan owning the team. I think we need to acknowledge that efforts to try and make it work with Melo have not worked out and it's time to build a new young core for the future.
This shouldn't be a situation where we're constantly looking behind at the past which we can't change! Phil is looking forward and so should all Knicks fans. There's too much opportunity laid out in front of this team to be so pessimistic about the team. Don't let Media Hype fool you into thinking things are so bad that they can't turn around.