Knicks · Begley Article: Porzingis' skipped meeting led multiple teams to call Knicks (page 3)
toodarkmark wrote:I hope he gets to be traded so he doesnt have to suffer being on such a loser of a franchise like the Knicks. Any player with talent who has James Dolan for a boss is looking for career suicide.Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
WOW! I don't want talented players to leave just because of Dolan owning the team. I think we need to acknowledge that efforts to try and make it work with Melo have not worked out and it's time to build a new young core for the future.
This shouldn't be a situation where we're constantly looking behind at the past which we can't change! Phil is looking forward and so should all Knicks fans. There's too much opportunity laid out in front of this team to be so pessimistic about the team. Don't let Media Hype fool you into thinking things are so bad that they can't turn around.
nixluva wrote:toodarkmark wrote:I hope he gets to be traded so he doesnt have to suffer being on such a loser of a franchise like the Knicks. Any player with talent who has James Dolan for a boss is looking for career suicide.Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
WOW! I don't want talented players to leave just because of Dolan owning the team. I think we need to acknowledge that efforts to try and make it work with Melo have not worked out and it's time to build a new young core for the future.
This shouldn't be a situation where we're constantly looking behind at the past which we can't change! Phil is looking forward and so should all Knicks fans. There's too much opportunity laid out in front of this team to be so pessimistic about the team. Don't let Media Hype fool you into thinking things are so bad that they can't turn around.
Do you have write a post without this guys name in it, Your responding to a KP question using Melo's name.
One day your going to realize melo is the very least of our problems and to be honest, KP knows he will be the next whipping boy if or when melo's gone...That what Knick fans do, If were not winning it's all because of the highest paid and most talented player, he gets all the blame.
you keep on thinking were building a team around Baker, Randle, and Kuz..holiday may not even be back, and phil may end up trading the pick for a more establish go to player..then all your young player talk goes out the window.
how come you know the direction of the franchise, but the 15 players on the roster have no idea
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:toodarkmark wrote:I hope he gets to be traded so he doesnt have to suffer being on such a loser of a franchise like the Knicks. Any player with talent who has James Dolan for a boss is looking for career suicide.Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
WOW! I don't want talented players to leave just because of Dolan owning the team. I think we need to acknowledge that efforts to try and make it work with Melo have not worked out and it's time to build a new young core for the future.
This shouldn't be a situation where we're constantly looking behind at the past which we can't change! Phil is looking forward and so should all Knicks fans. There's too much opportunity laid out in front of this team to be so pessimistic about the team. Don't let Media Hype fool you into thinking things are so bad that they can't turn around.
Do you have write a post without this guys name in it, Your responding to a KP question using Melo's name.
One day your going to realize melo is the very least of our problems and to be honest, KP knows he will be the next whipping boy if or when melo's gone...That what Knick fans do, If were not winning it's all because of the highest paid and most talented player, he gets all the blame.
you keep on thinking were building a team around Baker, Randle, and Kuz..holiday may not even be back, and phil may end up trading the pick for a more establish go to player..then all your young player talk goes out the window.
how come you know the direction of the franchise, but the 15 players on the roster have no idea
Melo most definitely wasn't the SOLUTION I know that for sure! He's a lazy player and refuses to buy into Team Ball! That is a big problem. Melo isn't carrying this team anywhere and instead he hampers the team on both ends so why keep him?
You simply don't see the realities of what's going on with this team. The best defenders on this team are the younger players! The worst defenders were the older vets. The younger players actually tried to execute the game plan! The kids gave max effort and played Team Ball. This team will be adding MORE YOUNG TALENT and that is the right direction for this team.
You can keep focusing on the role players to try and make your point but you know we're going to be adding better young talent this summer which is the whole point. The Knicks aren't just going to stand pat and not add more talent.
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:toodarkmark wrote:I hope he gets to be traded so he doesnt have to suffer being on such a loser of a franchise like the Knicks. Any player with talent who has James Dolan for a boss is looking for career suicide.Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
WOW! I don't want talented players to leave just because of Dolan owning the team. I think we need to acknowledge that efforts to try and make it work with Melo have not worked out and it's time to build a new young core for the future.
This shouldn't be a situation where we're constantly looking behind at the past which we can't change! Phil is looking forward and so should all Knicks fans. There's too much opportunity laid out in front of this team to be so pessimistic about the team. Don't let Media Hype fool you into thinking things are so bad that they can't turn around.
Do you have write a post without this guys name in it, Your responding to a KP question using Melo's name.
One day your going to realize melo is the very least of our problems and to be honest, KP knows he will be the next whipping boy if or when melo's gone...That what Knick fans do, If were not winning it's all because of the highest paid and most talented player, he gets all the blame.
you keep on thinking were building a team around Baker, Randle, and Kuz..holiday may not even be back, and phil may end up trading the pick for a more establish go to player..then all your young player talk goes out the window.
how come you know the direction of the franchise, but the 15 players on the roster have no idea
You play better defense of Melo than Melo defending on the court.
nixluva wrote:toodarkmark wrote:I hope he gets to be traded so he doesnt have to suffer being on such a loser of a franchise like the Knicks. Any player with talent who has James Dolan for a boss is looking for career suicide.Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
WOW! I don't want talented players to leave just because of Dolan owning the team. I think we need to acknowledge that efforts to try and make it work with Melo have not worked out and it's time to build a new young core for the future.
This shouldn't be a situation where we're constantly looking behind at the past which we can't change! Phil is looking forward and so should all Knicks fans. There's too much opportunity laid out in front of this team to be so pessimistic about the team. Don't let Media Hype fool you into thinking things are so bad that they can't turn around.
Someone did a pretty crappy job surrounding Melo with talent. The Knicks had 5 undrafted rookies on the roster. They had 8 total undrafted players and 2 second round picks. There were only 6 first round picks on the roster. That certainly isn't building around Melo. I agree that the team and Melo are on different time lines. But the roster Phil has put together each of his first three years hasn't had the talent to be competitive.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:toodarkmark wrote:I hope he gets to be traded so he doesnt have to suffer being on such a loser of a franchise like the Knicks. Any player with talent who has James Dolan for a boss is looking for career suicide.Shall I list every player that's been traded to the Knicks since 1999 and had their reputations tarnished by their stint here? Why anyone would want to play for Dolan and the Knicks is beyond me.
WOW! I don't want talented players to leave just because of Dolan owning the team. I think we need to acknowledge that efforts to try and make it work with Melo have not worked out and it's time to build a new young core for the future.
This shouldn't be a situation where we're constantly looking behind at the past which we can't change! Phil is looking forward and so should all Knicks fans. There's too much opportunity laid out in front of this team to be so pessimistic about the team. Don't let Media Hype fool you into thinking things are so bad that they can't turn around.
Someone did a pretty crappy job surrounding Melo with talent. The Knicks had 5 undrafted rookies on the roster. They had 8 total undrafted players and 2 second round picks. There were only 6 first round picks on the roster. That certainly isn't building around Melo. I agree that the team and Melo are on different time lines. But the roster Phil has put together each of his first three years hasn't had the talent to be competitive.
Sure these Melo based efforts fell flat! Doesn't really make the case for continuing to try and put something together around Melo!
Who exactly do you think we could've gotten that would've made the key difference? We all watched each summer what was available and who moved where! The last 2 summers Phil actually got good grades for his efforts to try and make something out of nothing!
The first year of a massive rebuild is often the hardest and that was certainly true for the Knicks in 2014-15.http://hoopshabit.com/2016/05/25/new-yor...The team struggled adjusting to Fisher’s triangle offense that Jackson has famously been married to. Anthony underwent left knee surgery after the All-Star Game and missed the remainder of the season.
The Knicks also traded malcontents J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert to the Cleveland Cavaliers in a three-team trade that also involved the Oklahoma City Thunder.
In return, the Knicks added Alex Kirk, Lou Amundson and Lance Thomas. The Knicks waived Kirk, Amundson and Dalembert to complete the deal. The trade and subsequent releases were financially motivated and saved the Knicks in excess of $20 million in expenses.
While the Knicks certainly lost talent, they weren’t winning anyway at 5-32 at the time of the trade. It was a clear example of a losing team having a fire sale to cut their losses.
The Knicks finished the season at 17-65.
The Knicks were rewarded for their failures with the fourth overall pick, which they used to select a 7’3 Latvian, Kristaps Porzingis.
The Knicks faithful weren’t too happy with the pick.
One year later, Porzingis is a cornerstone for the Knicks going forward after a rookie campaign in which the 20-year old averaged 14.3 points, 7.3 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks per game.
Again, Jackson deserves credit for selecting Porzingis and having the boldness to pick him despite the inevitable displeasure fans would have with the pick.
Drafting Porzingis wasn’t the only move that the Knicks made on draft night, trading Tim Hardaway Jr. to the Atlanta Hawks for the 19th overall pick, used to select Notre Dame point guard Jerian Grant.
Grant struggled in his rookie season, averaging only 5.6 points, 1.9 rebounds, and 2.3 assists while shooting only 39.4 percent from the field. Grant failed to play well enough to be given the starting point guard job despite the Knicks having a glaring lack of talented point guards on the roster.
Still, getting a mid-first rounder in exchange for Tim Hardaway Jr. is an extremely worthwhile deal.
Hardaway Jr. averaged 11.5 points per game for the Knicks in 2014-15 as a result of attrition on the roster, especially at the wings after Anthony went out for the season and the Knicks traded Smith and Shumpert to the Cavaliers.
Also in that offseason, the Knicks used cap space to sign starters Robin Lopez and Arron Afflalo, as well as rotation players Kevin Seraphin and Derrick Williams.
None of the signings are eye-popping, but they’re solid deals to players who can play a role.
In 2015-16, the Knicks improved to 32-50 behind Anthony and Porzingis.
Last week, after striking out on several stars in free agency -- Greg Monroe, LaMarcus Aldridge and DeAndre Jordan -- the Knicks made a string of sensible decisions typically associated with wiser teams who understand and accept where they stand. None will generate overnight change and some may even fail. But for a franchise so use to blindly swinging for the fences -- devastating aftermath be damned! -- Jackson stopped the madness.http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/135...We'll start with his worst decision, a move that gave Knicks fans nightmarish flashbacks to a time thought to permanently reside in their rearview mirror: Derrick Williams for two years and $10 million. The former No. 2 overall pick is a musty 24-year-old who's yet to find an effective role in the NBA. Is he a small-ball power forward? Maybe, but he'll never be a good one without improving his outside shot, and he definitely doesn't fit beside Carmelo Anthony (one of the better small-ball power forwards in basketball, when healthy).
It's a short-term deal, which is good news. But when Jonas Jerebko signed the exact same contract with the Boston Celtics and was given a non-guaranteed second year instead of a player option, it made New York look bad. Jerebko is better, and the option makes Williams harder to trade.
In a best-case scenario, Williams has an awesome season, re-enters free agency next summer when the cap jumps to $90 million and lands a massive contract. In other words, there is no best-case scenario.
Next up is Arron Afflalo, who signed a two-year, $16 million deal with a player option in year two. The best-case scenario here is similar to what I just wrote about Williams, but Afflalo is a much better player who can actually help New York win games. I like his defense more than most, particularly as a massive upgrade from what the Knicks had last season. Effort is not a problem. Afflalo can cover more than one position, score in the post and knock down spot-up threes. He turns 30 this year, which doesn't exactly fit into the timeline of a looming rebuild, but if New York's season goes south before the trade deadline, Jackson could wrest away an asset or two from a contender who thinks Afflalo can push them over the top.
Robin Lopez at four years and $54 million? Not cheap, but this is the type of player New York should target: a starting-caliber center who's competent on both ends. At 27 years old, the Knicks will pay Lopez through his prime, too. A bonus. There's your starting center from this era to the next.
The Knicks then crafted a sign-and-trade with the Orlando Magic for Kyle O'Quinn, giving the backup big man a four-year, $16 million deal for practically nothing. It's by far the shrewdest signing of Jackson's tenure. O'Quinn and Lopez are two centers who can shoot, protect the rim and fit nicely beside Anthony in small lineups. They're also more than capable of handling dirty work down low until rookie seven-footer Kristaps Porzingis puts a little meat on his bones.
(Speaking of the draft, the moves Jackson made on that day were symbolical strides into a potentially blissful future. Taking Porzingis with the fourth overall pick was brave. Trading the one-dimensional Tim Hardaway Jr. for All-American Jerian Grant was a spoonful of sugar.)
None of these moves will send seismic shockwaves through the five boroughs, but that's exactly why they're remarkable. Jackson wanted Monroe, Aldridge and Jordan. Of course. Everyone wants those guys. But his willingness to hit singles and doubles, play the long game and finally give New York reason to hope for the bright future it deserves is slowly turning him into one of the most underestimated executives in the league. He didn't cripple the Knicks cap space in 2016 and stopped letting Anthony's presence dictate personnel decisions. There has been nothing desperate about New York's summer so far.
What about going for Griffin in free agency and afterwards try to trade Porzingis to Boston for Isiah Thomas and picks.
If we can form a team around Griffin, Melo and Thomas, we would have one last good season before we really need to tank.
I think Boston would do it if they win the lottery and draft Fultz, as they will then have a great rotation on guards, and with Porzingis they will have a perfect fit, and more presence in the paint, that they desperately need.
That is my only pause to consider trading him.
Seems like every time we discover a wart on any coach, GM or player we are quick to rid of them?
KP skipped a meeting, not a practice, not a game, didn't refuse to go back into a game or curse out his coach.
Im keeping my critique of players to on the court.
If he finds Knicks an intolerable work environment, thats his choice. If Knicks find his bone density too small, curve of the back, pelvic tilt, etc to not be conducive to long term health and other teams want to roll that dice, then I might understand that.
There is a lot about KP that is different. His slight build might aid in longevity and he is very fluid for his size. It also makes me worry all those long tendons and bones..............