Knicks · IS it time to trade Lance? (page 1)

Just joking.

http://nypost.com/2017/05/18/top-knicks-...

Top Knicks defender: ‘Carmelo fights for his teammates’

By Marc Berman

Knicks forward Lance Thomas experienced an injury-marred season, starting with plantar fasciitis in both feet, a fractured orbital bone and a mysterious hip injury that ended his season with 11 games left.

But Thomas appears just as pained that Carmelo Anthony is being used by management as a scapegoat for a season gone horribly wrong.

Knicks president Phil Jackson declared the team can’t win with him and wants him out, making innuendos the club needs more active, defensive-oriented players such as Thomas.

Jackson also indicated Anthony’s leadership was lacking, citing “rebellion from the top’’ to Jackson’s triangle offense.

Thomas, a Brooklyn native like Anthony, is perhaps biased, calling Anthony “one of my best friends.’’ Thomas is also one of the NBA’s hardest workers — the club’s most zealous defender — so his words have an impact. According to Thomas, Anthony was not the problem.

“I love him here,’’ Thomas told The Post in his first comments to the media since his season-ending injury in Utah on March 22 after which he disappeared from the locker room. “I love him as a teammate, love him as a competitor, love him as a person. Everything else is out of my control, but his approach has always been great.
He’s an amazing professional. I’m not going to comment on what’s happening with him and the organization and trade rumors. I just know I love him as a teammate. I want it to work out.’’

If there’s a perception Anthony cares more about his brand than winning and his teammates, Thomas sought to dispel it, saying his fellow Knicks hold deep “respect’’ for the 10-time All-Star.

“Carmelo fights for his teammates,’’ Thomas said. “He loves to win. Every player in this league, when losing happens, frustration builds up and we’re in the biggest market in the world. Everything is under a magnifying glass here. But he has a passion for winning and bringing it under the biggest microscope. He’s embraced New York and has fought for the Knicks for so long. He’s done an amazing job remaining healthy and being a class act when things have been in an uproar for our team. I can only applaud his approach in everything he’s done — all of the white noise around him.

“He’s done a great job of being a professional and remaining a leader for our team. For me to watch him go through it, for the younger players to see the level of focus, putting all that stuff aside and remaining a veteran leader for the team, I can only hope that when I become a veteran later in my career, my teammates have utmost respect for me the way we have for Carmelo.’’

If Anthony is gone, according to a team source, management wants Thomas to step up as one of the locker-room leaders next season, especially because he’s a defensive specialist. While Anthony lost a step on defense this season, Thomas suggested no one player can be blamed for the club’s season-long defensive woes (ranking 25th in defensive efficiency).

“I don’t think it’s fair to pinpoint anything on one player — defense is a team game,’’ Thomas said. “Collectively our whole mindset has to be that — from our coaching staff to the last player on the bench.

“Players have different skill sets. There’s players really capable of being great defenders. There’s guys who aren’t as capable. Regardless, it’s a team game. If it takes a guy like myself to overexert himself on defense to complement other players on the team, I’ll do that. Everyone has to be willing to do that. It’s not on one player. Teams that are winning are playing great defense. If we want to be one of those teams, we have to do that.’’

Thomas dismissed a prevailing theme the Knicks didn’t buy into the triangle offense, which the club started using much more frequently in the week leading up the All-Star break. By then, the Knicks were all but out of the playoff race. The Knicks (31-51) didn’t win consecutive games after Christmas.

“A lot of games we lost were single-digits, close games where we didn’t get a defensive stop when we needed,’’ Thomas said. “We just needed to get tough stops when it mattered. As a team we sold ourselves short. Plays you look back maybe we could’ve dove for a loose ball, contested a shot better, gotten a certain rebound. I wouldn’t place the blame on everyone not buying in. As a competitor you figure out whatever it takes to win. You do it regardless of things out of your control.’’

Thomas, who played in 46 games, revealed his “hip popped out’’ as he lunged awkwardly for a loose ball during that March game in Utah. Thomas saved the possession and called a timeout, but his season was done. He said if the Knicks were in a playoff race, he would have gotten an injection to make it back for the final few games. The medical staff, knowing his floor-burn style could lead to further damage, shut him down.

Thomas just returned — healthy — from a long fishing expedition in the Gulf of Mexico.

“We have really good players, we need to create a mindset of being more tenacious on defense and do the little things to win games,’’ he said.

I didn't realize Thomas suffered that bad of an injury. Also, if Thomas really is the Knicks top defender they really do have talent issues. I like his attitude and his effort but to me his is an up and down defender. Maybe its do to him always being hurt.

Would any team actually want Lance?!

better than trading kp, lol, i think that lance oquinn and clee and melo should be traded for picks and younger players both now and later, really build around kp6 willy and hell even ron and holiday

Disagree
Lance is a high energy two way player
We need more of them
Not less

We have players on a 31 win team that like Melo. He "fights for his teammates", and Lance said a lot of things in terms of Melo being a professional about preparation, staying healthy, staying melo, but he does not say one thing...........

"Plays for his coaches"! Nalod likes melo, but as I have said before his game does not translate. Melo is a better teammate for melo than for Knicks. yes, he stays in shape and is committed to his craft. "HIS CRAFT"! What melo can is not easy, but he holds the ball and is unwilling to sacrifice his game for the greater good. Yes, he is a good role model for the younger guys to show how to get ready for the game, stay healthy thru injury, play thru a lot of it. not a good team mate if your running an ball movement offense or a role model for married players.

As for being the "scapegoat", well when you fight against the system management don't like that. Was he doing it for the greater good, short term team success or for his own agenda.

Teams that succeed running any system have push thru the learning curve and losing to get to the place where it comes together.

nyknickzingis wrote:Disagree
Lance is a high energy two way player
We need more of them
Not less

lance is garbage...and it seems injury prone...yes we should trade him for a late first round pick or early second round pick

Cartman718 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Disagree
Lance is a high energy two way player
We need more of them
Not less

lance is garbage...and it seems injury prone...yes we should trade him for a late first round pick or early second round pick

Yeah, I was going to ask what the two ways were! He does some things well but not enough to be worth more than a league min contract.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Disagree
Lance is a high energy two way player
We need more of them
Not less

lance is garbage...and it seems injury prone...yes we should trade him for a late first round pick or early second round pick

Yeah, I was going to ask what the two ways were! He does some things well but not enough to be worth more than a league min contract.

who gave him that contract again? Was it really Phil?

High Character guy, but now always hurt.

I've been a LT fan since the day we got him but he's been hurt a lot the last season and a half. When he's healthy and hitting his 3 point shot and playing the other teams best player he's actually pretty good to have. At the beginning of last season he talked about how he spent the off season working on his 3 point shot and he was hitting it but then he got hurt and we never saw much of him again that season and most of last season. I'd absolutely take a 1st round pick in this draft for him cause it's such a strong draft but not sure i'd take a 2nd rounder for him.

newyorker4ever wrote:I've been a LT fan since the day we got him but he's been hurt a lot the last season and a half. When he's healthy and hitting his 3 point shot and playing the other teams best player he's actually pretty good to have. At the beginning of last season he talked about how he spent the off season working on his 3 point shot and he was hitting it but then he got hurt and we never saw much of him again that season and most of last season. I'd absolutely take a 1st round pick in this draft for him cause it's such a strong draft but not sure i'd take a 2nd rounder for him.

Lance is a good 3 point shooter. The problem is that his 2 point shooting is off the charts bad. He's at .431 for his career. To put that in context, no team shot worse than .476 last year and the league average was .503.

yellowboy90 wrote:I didn't realize Thomas suffered that bad of an injury. Also, if Thomas really is the Knicks top defender they really do have talent issues. I like his attitude and his effort but to me his is an up and down defender. Maybe its do to him always being hurt.

this. His play was very high last year. When you look at what the 3&D guys were getting Lance's deal was excellent. He followed it up with this year where he was always hurt and didnt play well when he was finally on the floor. No reason he shouldnt bounce back and return to the form that earned him his contract.

Career 41% 3 point shooter who moves the ball and defends several positions.

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:I've been a LT fan since the day we got him but he's been hurt a lot the last season and a half. When he's healthy and hitting his 3 point shot and playing the other teams best player he's actually pretty good to have. At the beginning of last season he talked about how he spent the off season working on his 3 point shot and he was hitting it but then he got hurt and we never saw much of him again that season and most of last season. I'd absolutely take a 1st round pick in this draft for him cause it's such a strong draft but not sure i'd take a 2nd rounder for him.

Lance is a good 3 point shooter. The problem is that his 2 point shooting is off the charts bad. He's at .431 for his career. To put that in context, no team shot worse than .476 last year and the league average was .503.

if you go down the list of every player on last yrs roster, and check out their flaws, along with the system, we were lucky to win 31 games

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:I've been a LT fan since the day we got him but he's been hurt a lot the last season and a half. When he's healthy and hitting his 3 point shot and playing the other teams best player he's actually pretty good to have. At the beginning of last season he talked about how he spent the off season working on his 3 point shot and he was hitting it but then he got hurt and we never saw much of him again that season and most of last season. I'd absolutely take a 1st round pick in this draft for him cause it's such a strong draft but not sure i'd take a 2nd rounder for him.

Lance is a good 3 point shooter. The problem is that his 2 point shooting is off the charts bad. He's at .431 for his career. To put that in context, no team shot worse than .476 last year and the league average was .503.

if you go down the list of every player on last yrs roster, and check out their flaws, along with the system, we were lucky to win 31 games

Just goes to show you post nothing but uninformed turds. Knicks lost 12 games by a bucket or less.

The biggest flaw last year was health. No doubt that much of that sits on Phil as he added players (Noah/Rose) with a history of poor health. However in addition to those two being hurt often (Noah hurting us the most) the only really healthy guys were KOQ and Holiday.

Lance at $7mm was great. He gave you fantastic bench play for 20-25 minutes a night, played high D and shot over 40% from 3. He gave us nothing this year. Thats just bad luck. KP also ended getting banged up. Melo looked old and they still won 31 and lost 12 others by a bucket. Hardly an indication that we are "almost there" but to suggest that their talent equates to fewer wins than they got this year is simply bullsh!t

Cartman718 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Disagree
Lance is a high energy two way player
We need more of them
Not less

lance is garbage...and it seems injury prone...yes we should trade him for a late first round pick or early second round pick

No team that thinks like you do about him will trade a #1 for him...you do understand this.

When completely healthy, Lance is a player that better teams needing a good defender and quality guy will want. He's worked on his shot over the years, can guard multiple positions, and is a good locker room and bench presence.

Big thing bringing his value down is the injury issue, otherwise his ability and decent contract might get you a late #1 from a team looking for a glue player who can defend and shoot from distance.

Knicks do need a younger more dynamic version of LT. When LT is healthy he really helped the D! He's just not the most talented guy but he gives it everything he's got and I'd love a team full of guys like that, but with more actual talent

I don't see what we'd get in return for LT tho. I think he's gonna have to be healthy and play well this season and then he might be a trade option at that point.

nixluva wrote:Knicks do need a younger more dynamic version of LT. When LT is healthy he really helped the D! He's just not the most talented guy but he gives it everything he's got and I'd love a team full of guys like that, but with more actual talent

I don't see what we'd get in return for LT tho. I think he's gonna have to be healthy and play well this season and then he might be a trade option at that point.

Trade deadline type deal, assuming he remains healthy, would be possible for teams looking for a solid player for a playoff drive.

Just has to stay healthy.

Nalod wrote:We have players on a 31 win team that like Melo. He "fights for his teammates", and Lance said a lot of things in terms of Melo being a professional about preparation, staying healthy, staying melo, but he does not say one thing...........

"Plays for his coaches"! Nalod likes melo, but as I have said before his game does not translate. Melo is a better teammate for melo than for Knicks. yes, he stays in shape and is committed to his craft. "HIS CRAFT"! What melo can is not easy, but he holds the ball and is unwilling to sacrifice his game for the greater good. Yes, he is a good role model for the younger guys to show how to get ready for the game, stay healthy thru injury, play thru a lot of it. not a good team mate if your running an ball movement offense or a role model for married players.

As for being the "scapegoat", well when you fight against the system management don't like that. Was he doing it for the greater good, short term team success or for his own agenda.

Teams that succeed running any system have push thru the learning curve and losing to get to the place where it comes together.

This is pretty much the crux of the matter. No one questions that Melo isn't, generally speaking, a good guy, good teammate, fights for union rights kinda guy.

The REAL QUESTION IS, as Nalod indicates - "Does the team play better system basketball and win with Melo on the court?"

Lane can't spin that narrative because it doesn't exist.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Disagree
Lance is a high energy two way player
We need more of them
Not less

lance is garbage...and it seems injury prone...yes we should trade him for a late first round pick or early second round pick

No team that thinks like you do about him will trade a #1 for him...you do understand this.

When completely healthy, Lance is a player that better teams needing a good defender and quality guy will want. He's worked on his shot over the years, can guard multiple positions, and is a good locker room and bench presence.

Big thing bringing his value down is the injury issue, otherwise his ability and decent contract might get you a late #1 from a team looking for a glue player who can defend and shoot from distance.

I have to disagree. Teams that are contenders aren't looking for late first-round draft picks who will be lucky to get garbage time.

A first-rounder can be had. The other question is, "How many rookies are the Knicks taking on?" I get the impression that Phil is going all in.

Kuz AND Lance are prime candidates to be flipped for either better draft position or another late first-rounder with better long-term potential than either.

Remember, Hardaway got us Grant.

newyorker4ever wrote:I've been a LT fan since the day we got him but he's been hurt a lot the last season and a half. When he's healthy and hitting his 3 point shot and playing the other teams best player he's actually pretty good to have. At the beginning of last season he talked about how he spent the off season working on his 3 point shot and he was hitting it but then he got hurt and we never saw much of him again that season and most of last season. I'd absolutely take a 1st round pick in this draft for him cause it's such a strong draft but not sure i'd take a 2nd rounder for him.

Right you don't give a Lance Thomas away [for a second-rounder]. Given the success the Knicks have had with unsigned and the expansion to protect two additional players in D-League [17 player roster - 15 active].

Lance for a quality risk or keep him.