StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Well at least we agree that you cant build a winner around Melo right?
CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
Until the formula for sustainable winning is right you try and try again until it works. What Phil is doing is the right approach to success.
The team is 80-166 since he took over. It is going to take him into his fourth year to win as many games as the Knicks won two years prior. He talked about the Knicks having a clumsy roster and he created an even clumsier roster trying again 3x. Whatever he s trying snt working. What about year 4 makes you think this time he is taking the right approach to success?
I keep saying who cares about the record. The Knicks wouldn't have won a championship that is the bottom line. The ultimate goal is to play for championships. I don't think you understand, Phil is different he is trying to strike gold. The team from this year was headed for 41-41 you would have been a very happy guy with 41-41 team. I would have been like what the hell did they do. Phil knows playoffs for the sake of playoff is not gonna get you anywhere.
When the playoffs come the next time around for the Knicks it's going to have a different purpose. It's going to be for growth. Not some 54 win flash in the pan team you knew they couldn't sustain that because of age factors. There was absolutely no formula of success there a one man show that made everyone better and kept the team engaged.
Vmart wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
Until the formula for sustainable winning is right you try and try again until it works. What Phil is doing is the right approach to success.
The team is 80-166 since he took over. It is going to take him into his fourth year to win as many games as the Knicks won two years prior. He talked about the Knicks having a clumsy roster and he created an even clumsier roster trying again 3x. Whatever he s trying snt working. What about year 4 makes you think this time he is taking the right approach to success?
I keep saying who cares about the record. The Knicks wouldn't have won a championship that is the bottom line. The ultimate goal is to play for championships. I don't think you understand, Phil is different he is trying to strike gold. The team from this year was headed for 41-41 you would have been a very happy guy with 41-41 team. I would have been like what the hell did they do. Phil knows playoffs for the sake of playoff is not gonna get you anywhere.
When the playoffs come the next time around for the Knicks it's going to have a different purpose. It's going to be for growth. Not some 54 win flash in the pan team you knew they couldn't sustain that because of age factors. There was absolutely no formula of success there a one man show that made everyone better and kept the team engaged.
This. Like I said I'm not trying to defend Phil but they weren't winning these last 3 years. We didnt have many picks, free agents are going to top teams(Cleveland, Spurs ,Golden State and our "top player" isn't a guy you can win with. I'm not saying Phil has been good because he hasn't been but it wasn't a good situation to walk into. At least now we have some young talent and all our future draft picks
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Well at least we agree that you cant build a winner around Melo right?
Has Phil ever passed on blaming someone or taken the high road? If the deal was on Dolan he would blame Dolan publicly.
Vmart wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
Until the formula for sustainable winning is right you try and try again until it works. What Phil is doing is the right approach to success.
The team is 80-166 since he took over. It is going to take him into his fourth year to win as many games as the Knicks won two years prior. He talked about the Knicks having a clumsy roster and he created an even clumsier roster trying again 3x. Whatever he s trying snt working. What about year 4 makes you think this time he is taking the right approach to success?
I keep saying who cares about the record. The Knicks wouldn't have won a championship that is the bottom line. The ultimate goal is to play for championships. I don't think you understand, Phil is different he is trying to strike gold. The team from this year was headed for 41-41 you would have been a very happy guy with 41-41 team. I would have been like what the hell did they do. Phil knows playoffs for the sake of playoff is not gonna get you anywhere.
When the playoffs come the next time around for the Knicks it's going to have a different purpose. It's going to be for growth. Not some 54 win flash in the pan team you knew they couldn't sustain that because of age factors. There was absolutely no formula of success there a one man show that made everyone better and kept the team engaged.
I agree with the second paragraph. But aside from accidentally tanking, I don't think Phil has done anything to put the franchise on a growth/championship path. The Knicks should be in the lottery for the next two years. Hopefully no franchise set back trades,or signings are made during that time.
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Well at least we agree that you cant build a winner around Melo right?
Has Phil ever passed on blaming someone or taken the high road? If the deal was on Dolan he would blame Dolan publicly.
Once again for the 10th time I'm not defending Phil or saying he has been even an average executive. However I still think Dolan has been the major problem for 17 years
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Crush-- do you honestly believe an owner doesn't gave final say on a 130 mm$ contract w trade kickers?
BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Crush-- do you honestly believe an owner doesn't gave final say on a 130 mm$ contract w trade kickers?
I think Phil negotiated that deal. I also think Phil has autonomy. I think there is a reasonable chance Melo is just waived because of Phil's autonomy.
CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Crush-- do you honestly believe an owner doesn't gave final say on a 130 mm$ contract w trade kickers?
I think Phil negotiated that deal. I also think Phil has autonomy. I think there is a reasonable chance Melo is just waived because of Phil's autonomy.
Maybe we should blame global warming on Phil too
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Crush-- do you honestly believe an owner doesn't gave final say on a 130 mm$ contract w trade kickers?
I think Phil negotiated that deal. I also think Phil has autonomy. I think there is a reasonable chance Melo is just waived because of Phil's autonomy.
Maybe we should blame global warming on Phil too
Maybe we should blame the Noah deal on Dolan and the Rose trade. He is the owner. Except he said he knows nothing about basketball so he trusts his basketball people to make the right decisions.
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.
Crush-- do you honestly believe an owner doesn't gave final say on a 130 mm$ contract w trade kickers?
I think Phil negotiated that deal. I also think Phil has autonomy. I think there is a reasonable chance Melo is just waived because of Phil's autonomy.
Maybe we should blame global warming on Phil too
Maybe we should blame the Noah deal on Dolan and the Rose trade. He is the owner. Except he said he knows nothing about basketball so he trusts his basketball people to make the right decisions.
When did I ever blame the noah or Rose trade of Dolan? I'm pretty sure ive written on here at least 50 times that the Noah signing was a terrible move by Phil( I even said it at the time). Its funny because I also said the Rose trade was terrible too but you didn't think so at the time
Dolan was smart enough to pay Phil to take the Heat but it's Dolan that is in charge ultimately and we should be picking Fox as our PG of the future rather than high dribble 18 year Frenchie Frank!
^^^I can't reply for some reason. If Doan was involved in Melo's deal Melo would have gotten the full max. It is on Phil. You are right about Rose. I was hoping Rose was going to be a big part of the offense Hornacek ran in Phoenix. I was wrong about a lot of things I hoped for. I will say that in every form of media that I consumed regarding the Rose trade, no one liked the dal for the Kncks.
CrushAlot wrote:^^^I can't reply for some reason. If Doan was involved in Melo's deal Melo would have gotten the full max. It is on Phil. You are right about Rose. I was hoping Rose was going to be a big part of the offense Hornacek ran in Phoenix. I was wrong about a lot of things I hoped for. I will say that in every form of media that I consumed regarding the Rose trade, no one liked the dal for the Kncks.
To be fair Melo got pretty much the full max. Truthfully I think it was only like a few million less anyway, along with the NTC, and the kicker. I'm not saying Phil doesn't deserve responsibility for that deal BUT you are fooling yourself if you think Dolan wasn't involved at all
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:^^^I can't reply for some reason. If Doan was involved in Melo's deal Melo would have gotten the full max. It is on Phil. You are right about Rose. I was hoping Rose was going to be a big part of the offense Hornacek ran in Phoenix. I was wrong about a lot of things I hoped for. I will say that in every form of media that I consumed regarding the Rose trade, no one liked the dal for the Kncks.
To be fair Melo got pretty much the full max. Truthfully I think it was only like a few million less anyway, along with the NTC, and the kicker. I'm not saying Phil doesn't deserve responsibility for that deal BUT you are fooling yourself if you think Dolan wasn't involved at all
He took 5 mil less in year two. Phil said at the time he negotiated the deal. I think he spoke about that, LSD etc when he still had a positive relationship with the media. Also, I believe Dolan was on tour when the deal went down.
CrushAlot wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I don't blame anyone else-- Jim Dolan is the schmuk. Listening to mark cuban on radio he was blatant about the second the Mavs were out of the playoffs they straight tried to tank-- finished right behind us despite being in it through 70. We had pole position 4 with 2.5 weeks left-- we woul likely have pick 3 or 4 with a great player sitting there. But this franchise as it has always done with Dolan-- does the stupid thing. This isn't Phil's fault or isiah Thomas or anyone else-- there is one constant-- our Duufy owner
We put a team together last year that had more than enough talent to at least make the playoffs especially in the garbage ass east and that's on Dolan how??
Six rookies, five undrafted and 8 undrafted players overall. More than half of the roster was undrafted. One third of the roster was undrafted rookies. There was a severe talent deficit. The Knicks only had 5 first round picks on their roster at the end of the season and one was hurt for most of the season.
The starting 5 we put on the floor and who obviously plays the majority of the game should of easily got us in the playoffs.
D.Rose
C.Lee
Melo
KP
J.Noah
nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
I'm excited right now that if Phil sticks with the plan of going young and rebuilding through the draft and young free agents and if we can get KP on the right track with believing in what they're doing that in 3 years we'll see a noticeable change for the better for this team and with a little luck maybe we'll start seeing that change in 2 years but the rebuild itself should take 3 or 4 years. As bad as it's been over the last however many years......i can't wait.
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.
He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.
I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal
Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.
I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change
Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.
Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.
Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?
Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.
You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.
I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway
You might of said you weren't sure of it but you sure as hell do strongly imply it...lol
