Knicks · We suck as a franchise because of the owner (page 3)

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.

He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.

I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal

Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.

I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change

Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.

Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.

Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?

Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.

You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.

I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway

You might of said you weren't sure of it but you sure as hell do strongly imply it...lol

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.

He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.

I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal

Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.

I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change

Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.

Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.

Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?

Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.

You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.

I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway

No. I only blame Phil for his mistakes. That contract was a mistake unless you think that is your franchise guy and you are going to build around him. Phil gave the contract but then assembled some really crappy rosters around the system he wants hs coaches and the team to run.

Crush-- do you honestly believe an owner doesn't gave final say on a 130 mm$ contract w trade kickers?

I think Phil negotiated that deal. I also think Phil has autonomy. I think there is a reasonable chance Melo is just waived because of Phil's autonomy.

Maybe we should blame global warming on Phil too

No that one's on Dolan.

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMPATIENCE has been the biggest problem for this team. Right now Phil is basically changing the approach by abandoning the Melo Centric building. If he can successfully reload this summer with young prospects and youngish Vets then there will be PLENTY to be excited about with this franchise. Just weeks away from finding out what happens.

He is resetting again for the fourth time. The first three times he thought he had a team that would make the playoffs. He also never built around Melo. There was a formula for that and Grunwald showed how to do it and that it could work. Melo is too old at this point to build a team around but Phil has been trying to build a triangle team not a Melo centric team. Melo has just been so much better than all of the players that ave passed through since Phil took over. Phil seems to e more engaged since Magic took over the Lakers. He has been present at some events that he never bothered to attend before. Maybe an increase in his engagement helps the franchise. I am concerned that with all of his deficits as an executive, he has targeted mentoring as the area where he is going to put his greatest focus.

I know you hate Phil which is fine and I agree he has made mistakes no doubt about it but at the same time he hasn't had many resources and picks that probably made the job even tougher. Also I don't think you can build around melo. Yes I know some are hung up on the 54 win season but as we know once we got to the playoffs we got our asses handed to us as was the case with most of melo's playoff experiences. Its nothing against melo its just that he fits best as the 2nd guy on a contender. But anyway I do agree with briggs that dolan is the major reason why the past 17 years have been pretty brutal

Phil has been horrible with trades and culture-building. He has drafted well despite limited resources. You have to wonder, if he came into this with all his picks, he may have let melo walk and done a full rebuild, and been successful building a young team. But his options were limited. Can't fully rebuild with no picks. But I'm disappointed that he didn't fix the culture as he promises.

I agree he has definetly made errors in trades. The Chandler and Shump/Jr Smith trades were truly awful. Even Lebron couldn't belive that they got them basically for free. The fisher hiring was also terrible. As for the Melo signing I'm still not convinced that Phil wanted to do it....that seems like a Dolan move(just like the original trade with Denver). If you think about it Phil has never been a big melo fan and he wnted him to take a big paycut so why wouldhe just all of a sudden given him that kind of deal. However I still think Phil has a lot of work to do in order to be somewhat successful. If he can get another first rounder, hit on the picks, move melo, and make some better trades I think we could have some fun next year for a change

Melo's contract is on Phil. So is Noah's deal. Phil got lucky that he was able to Rambis Afflalo into declining his player option. Phil hasn't been a good executive so far.

Did I say he has been a good executive? I pretty much said he hasn't been besides the good draft selections he has made. however I not sure he gave melo that insane contract without some insistence from Dolan. I mean is already a proven fact that dolan went over Donnie Walsh's head in the original trade to begin with.

Walsh was forced on Dolan by Stern. Phil didn't want the Knick job until the money was too much to pass up. Part of his deal was autonomy. Melo's deal is on Phil. Also, aside from O'quinn has Phil signed a player to a team friendly deal?

Once again I'm not trying to say Phil has be a good executive so I'm not sure why you keep infering that I am.

You said you don't think Melo's deal is on Phil. I disagree and was telling why.

I never said I was sure of that. I mean if you go back to that summer and read the articles Phil didn't seem that interested in giving Melo that type of deal. In fact he said he wanted melo take a hometown discount. We also know that Dolan made the original horrible trade to begin with. So I'm not saying that Phil isn't responsible but it wouldn't be surprising if Dolan made that call either. But lets be honest you obviously are gonna blame Phil for every little thing anyway

You might of said you weren't sure of it but you sure as hell do strongly imply it...lol

That's fair. I did imply it and I do hold Phil at least partially responsible. But we all know Dolan had to have had some say in it like he has many times before especially when it comes to melo

Knicks won games at the end of the season going heavy triangle with some of the best ball movement of the season & a bunch of udfa and 2nd rounders. Go figure.