Briggs brings up a good point about the long term viability of KP and Willy paired up front.
Would he be better paired with quicker footed center who can play a big more above the rim?
If so, would the idea of including Willy in a trade be a better basketball move? I understand KP and WIlly are good friends but also if this concept is accepted by KP as it would better facilitate success on the court, can any of you speculate what Willy's value would be? As an asset, he has developed to at what has to be at least a mid first round pick.
I don't trade any positive asset for merely a mid first round pick. Middle pick has less than 50/50 chance of becoming a contributing NBA player. Willy is, at worst, the first big off the bench and a definite rotation player. I only would consider trading for a to 10 pick or a yoot or vet that has proven they can play in the NBA.
It's a question tho be answered as time goes on. Both players haven't fully developed as far as what kind of player they will be. I think they both are centers. Outside of a jumpsuit neither show any skills that adore they will have more success playing at the 4. They could play together in stints but as time goes on we will definately know for sure. If any trade needs to be made we will be compensated accordingly.
Considering what Willy has shown as a post player in his first season. Even with his defensive lapses (which might be temporary) trading Hernangomez in a deal for anything less than a top five pick would be a bad idea. A deal that gets us a high pick, the PG we need, would be sacrilicious.
I said "at least a mid first round pick"....
That's my floor value. Im trying to not "exude too much exuberance" regarding the kids value.
I've been saying it since the all star break that it is completely foolish to have both of these guys on the court at the same time. Most teams will be playing small and fast, that's the new trend, If your not following the trend, you are going to be left at the bottom of the standings..
Willie will far outperform this contract he is currently under and doesn't need 30 mins a game to produce. No reason we can't bring in a forward in the Aminu "type of mold" giving us the versatility to play small or bring in Willie and go big.
I still think you play Willy off the bench as he learns to become a better defender. I also want to separate Willy and KP because Willy needs the offense run throug him.
Meh! Spurs won PLENTY with 2 traditional bigs!!! There's nothing wrong with KP and Willy. The key is the quality of the perimeter players around them. They will have minutes apart from each other every game. This is a relative non issue IMO.
The frontocurt positions have 96 minutes. I dont think Ill get much in the way of argument that KP especially should stay near 30 minutes of this long term health.
We gave Noah 70mm$ to be the "synergy" player a guy who rebounds defends blocks shots put backs etc.. but he is essentially done. We have to replace him--its priority. We DO have a very good player in KOQ who certainly can do some of that--BUT next year hes going to get paid--and some of these big have gotten paid in the tens of millions. Would it be smarter to acquire or use a draft pick--or potential D league foreign etc.. that has goods to get that job done and move KOQ for an asset? If we go as is--we simply will have porous D.
BRIGGS wrote:The frontocurt positions have 96 minutes. I dont think Ill get much in the way of argument that KP especially should stay near 30 minutes of this long term health.We gave Noah 70mm$ to be the "synergy" player a guy who rebounds defends blocks shots put backs etc.. but he is essentially done. We have to replace him--its priority. We DO have a very good player in KOQ who certainly can do some of that--BUT next year hes going to get paid--and some of these big have gotten paid in the tens of millions. Would it be smarter to acquire or use a draft pick--or potential D league foreign etc.. that has goods to get that job done and move KOQ for an asset? If we go as is--we simply will have porous D.
Phil isn't working out bigs for no reason. I think he's aware of needs to upgrade in many areas. Perimeter is the Primary area of need but also just upgrading front Court depth as well. Can't just stand pat at PF/C.
Even suggesting trading him for a future pick just seems absurd. KP and Willy can co-exist. Should we just draft players, let them play for a year or two, then continue to trade them for future picks? And just repeat the cycle over and over? At what point does this stop? Adding extra picks when possible is smart, but we can't continue to prolong a rebuild further and further into the future. We have a young core started, and need to commit to building upon that.
newyorknewyork wrote:Willie will far outperform this contract he is currently under and doesn't need 30 mins a game to produce. No reason we can't bring in a forward in the Aminu "type of mold" giving us the versatility to play small or bring in Willie and go big.
The problem is, almost every draft pick we have had, took a step back their following yr
fields,
douglas
kp
thj
to name a few, that just goes to show how well we develop
nixluva wrote:Meh! Spurs won PLENTY with 2 traditional bigs!!! There's nothing wrong with KP and Willy. The key is the quality of the perimeter players around them. They will have minutes apart from each other every game. This is a relative non issue IMO.
Dude, that was how long ago?
The game is changing, there wasn't a single 7 footer that any real impact in the entire playoffs. gasol took over 200 three pointers this season, a 95% increase from his previous yr, same for Lopez.
The game is not being played in the paint any longer, why cant you see that and accept it, in fact, why can't phil see that and adjust
Willie averaged 7 rebounds in 18 mins per game. He is set to make 1.4mil next season.
knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Willie will far outperform this contract he is currently under and doesn't need 30 mins a game to produce. No reason we can't bring in a forward in the Aminu "type of mold" giving us the versatility to play small or bring in Willie and go big.
The problem is, almost every draft pick we have had, took a step back their following yr
fields,
douglas
kp
thj
to name a few, that just goes to show how well we develop
KP didn't take a giant step forward, but he definitely didn't take a step back. He made strides, then got injured and struggled to sustain that play for the 2nd half of the year. He definitely can't be lumped in with that group. Overall, he showed modest improvements this season.
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:Meh! Spurs won PLENTY with 2 traditional bigs!!! There's nothing wrong with KP and Willy. The key is the quality of the perimeter players around them. They will have minutes apart from each other every game. This is a relative non issue IMO.
Dude, that was how long ago?
The game is changing, there wasn't a single 7 footer that any real impact in the entire playoffs. gasol took over 200 three pointers this season, a 95% increase from his previous yr, same for Lopez.
The game is not being played in the paint any longer, why cant you see that and accept it, in fact, why can't phil see that and adjust
I have no idea what you're complaint is. Pau and Aldridge are 2 bigs and they won a TON. Who knows how things go if Kawhi is healthy. KP already shoots 3's and Willy is extending his range and working on his quickness. IMO it's beyond premature to be assuming KP and Willy won't work! Golden State also plays Zaza and McGee. People are making too many assumptions that don't have to be true.
The Knicks are not building to match GS! You can't replicate that since they have 2 MVP's. The Knicks are building with flexibility in mind. They will be able to play small and big.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:Meh! Spurs won PLENTY with 2 traditional bigs!!! There's nothing wrong with KP and Willy. The key is the quality of the perimeter players around them. They will have minutes apart from each other every game. This is a relative non issue IMO.
Dude, that was how long ago?
The game is changing, there wasn't a single 7 footer that any real impact in the entire playoffs. gasol took over 200 three pointers this season, a 95% increase from his previous yr, same for Lopez.
The game is not being played in the paint any longer, why cant you see that and accept it, in fact, why can't phil see that and adjust
I have no idea what you're complaint is. Pau and Aldridge are 2 bigs and they won a TON. Who knows how things go if Kawhi is healthy. KP already shoots 3's and Willy is extending his range and working on his quickness. IMO it's beyond premature to be assuming KP and Willy won't work! Golden State also plays Zaza and McGee. People are making too many assumptions that don't have to be true.
The Knicks are not building to match GS! You can't replicate that since they have 2 MVP's. The Knicks are building with flexibility in mind. They will be able to play small and big.
It's just people obsessing with golden State. It's like if you don't build a roster exactly like them you can't win today. That's the mentality. The spurs are the 3rd best team in basketball and are built entirely on their front court. Their backcourt is old and unathletic. Their team is the polar opposite of how people think a team should be built today. Golden State is incredible. They have 2 mvp's and 2 other stars. Most talented team ever. But for some reason people get caught up in needing your best players to be guards because of how they play. Trends will remain until some team comes around and does it different and wins. Then everyone will say you need to build a team that way. Rinse and repeat.
I don't think the Knicks need to make this type of personnel decision now. I think the Knicks are in the lottery the next two years minimally.
CrushAlot wrote:I don't think the Knicks need to make this type of personnel decision now. I think the Knicks are in the lottery the next two years minimally.
Whatever progress they make this has to happen naturally and that takes time.
Knixkik wrote:Even suggesting trading him for a future pick just seems absurd. KP and Willy can co-exist. Should we just draft players, let them play for a year or two, then continue to trade them for future picks? And just repeat the cycle over and over? At what point does this stop? Adding extra picks when possible is smart, but we can't continue to prolong a rebuild further and further into the future. We have a young core started, and need to commit to building upon that.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the culture of this thinking. It appears the better run teams are open-minded and are willing to buck conventional thought.
When the Spurs drafted George Hill, he was almost instantly thought to be Tony Parker's heir apparent and the future starting PG for the franchise. That didn't stop them from trading him when they felt a better opportunity had presented itself for a middling pick that produced their current franchise player: Kawhi Leonard.
We can't allow ourselves to get complacent just because a player has potential. The reality is that as a rebuilding team, we won't have very many assets outside of the players we draft and should be prepared to move any that might not fit our long-term or short-term goals. I'm not suggesting Willy is someone we should look to move but I also don't think he's good enough to not be moved, particularly if we think that trading him could produce our own Kawhi Leonard.
