Knicks · What's Your Best Case Realistic Offseason Plan? (page 2)

mendoza1906 wrote:Trade scenario between Knicks and Blazers
Knicks: receive 15th 20th, and 26th pick, + Alann Crabbe
Blazers: 8th pick, Carmelo Anthony

Trade scenario between Knicks and Pistons
Knicks: receive 12th pick, Aron Baynes,
Pistons: receive Courtney Lee, KO

Step 1: 12th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Donavan Mitchell

Step 2: 15th pick: (via Blazers)
Draft: Luke Kennard

Step 3: 20th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Azenjes Paseknics

Step 4: 26th pick (Via Blazers)
Draft: DJ Wilson

Step 5: 44th pick
Draft: Wesley Iwundu

Step 6: With (Our 58th pick)
Draft: 58th pick: Jakob WIley

Step 7: Free Agent
Sign: Jalen Jones from (D-League)

Starting Lineup
Mitchell, Kennard, Crabbe, KP, Willy

Bench:
Baker, Jalen Jones, Kuz, DJ Wilson, Azenjes

Reserve:
Vucevic, Lance , Noah, Jacob Wiley, Iwundu

Summer League Invite:
Deonte Burton
Andrew White
Alexander Venzecov
VJ Beachem

We'd be hemorraging talent in your proposals. Melo would easily be the best player in the first, yet we'd have to include our 8th pick and end up with 3 inferior picks? Same thing with the Pistons deal, we offer the two best players, on pretty good contracts to only move up two spots? Doesn't seem prudent.

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I'd start with a four team trade involving the Clippers, Suns and Thunder: Clippers would get Melo; Suns would get Jamal Crawford, the 44th and 58th picks; we'd get Victor Oladipo, Brandon Knight and about an additional $11 million worth of cap space; the Thunder would get Courtney Lee, Austin Rivers and the 36th pick.

With the $30 million worth of cap space this upcoming offseason ($19 million to start, plus the $11 million created by sending C.Lee to OKC), I make a pledge to the Blazers to trade Lance Thomas and absorb the balance of Allen Crabbe's and Evan Turner's contracts for the 15th pick.

If I can't move up to 3rd by packaging Oladipo and the 8th, I simply draft Frank Ntilikina. At 15, I select Justin Jackson.

And if Mason Plumlee becomes too expensive for the Nuggets to retain, I approach them with a package of Kyle O'Quinn, Mindaugas Kuzminskaus and cash for Juan Hernangomez.

STARTERS
PG: Brandon Knight
SG: Victor Oladipo
SF: Evan Turner
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Willy Hernangomez

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina
G/F: Allen Crabbe
F: Justin Jackson
F: Juan Hernangomez
C: Joakim Noah

I'm pretty sure the OP asked for a realistic off season plan

And he got one.

I think this is close... Probably seperate smaller deals. Melo->LAC for Rivers and another team take Crawford or JJ. With some cap space we take Evan Turner and Harkless and pick 15 for KOQ and NDour saving Porland like $20mm and we draft the BPA at 15.

Knicks seem really locked into this draft and most comfortable building there. I Phil sees a real chance to stock the cubbard.

It definitely feels like the Knicks are doing their due diligence. I just hope they don't put all their eggs into one basket and think that the course of this franchise during the KP era will be set through this one draft or offseason. This is a long process and we better respect it. If we don't, that's how we end up drafting Dwight Howard and pairing him with Steve Francis-Cuttino Mobley instead of tanking for Chris Paul or drafting Anthony Davis and pairing him with Jrue Holiday instead of Giannas Antetokounmpo.

yes but we would get so many players that would be involved in the future. Pasecniks can easily be a star.. and Kennard is maybe one of this drafts best three point shooters.. you add DJ wilson which has a lot of similarities to KD he's 6'10" with a 7'3 wingspan he can easily be a steal at 26.. you're just focusing at the talent that we're losing at the moment but not focusing at the talent that we can gain with all the picks.. This sets us up for the future.

NardDogNation wrote:

mendoza1906 wrote:Trade scenario between Knicks and Blazers
Knicks: receive 15th 20th, and 26th pick, + Alann Crabbe
Blazers: 8th pick, Carmelo Anthony

Trade scenario between Knicks and Pistons
Knicks: receive 12th pick, Aron Baynes,
Pistons: receive Courtney Lee, KO

Step 1: 12th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Donavan Mitchell

Step 2: 15th pick: (via Blazers)
Draft: Luke Kennard

Step 3: 20th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Azenjes Paseknics

Step 4: 26th pick (Via Blazers)
Draft: DJ Wilson

Step 5: 44th pick
Draft: Wesley Iwundu

Step 6: With (Our 58th pick)
Draft: 58th pick: Jakob WIley

Step 7: Free Agent
Sign: Jalen Jones from (D-League)

Starting Lineup
Mitchell, Kennard, Crabbe, KP, Willy

Bench:
Baker, Jalen Jones, Kuz, DJ Wilson, Azenjes

Reserve:
Vucevic, Lance , Noah, Jacob Wiley, Iwundu

Summer League Invite:
Deonte Burton
Andrew White
Alexander Venzecov
VJ Beachem

We'd be hemorraging talent in your proposals. Melo would easily be the best player in the first, yet we'd have to include our 8th pick and end up with 3 inferior picks? Same thing with the Pistons deal, we offer the two best players, on pretty good contracts to only move up two spots? Doesn't seem prudent.

mendoza1906 wrote:yes but we would get so many players that would be involved in the future. Pasecniks can easily be a star.. and Kennard is maybe one of this drafts best three point shooters.. you add DJ wilson which has a lot of similarities to KD he's 6'10" with a 7'3 wingspan he can easily be a steal at 26.. you're just focusing at the talent that we're losing at the moment but not focusing at the talent that we can gain with all the picks.. This sets us up for the future.

NardDogNation wrote:

mendoza1906 wrote:Trade scenario between Knicks and Blazers
Knicks: receive 15th 20th, and 26th pick, + Alann Crabbe
Blazers: 8th pick, Carmelo Anthony

Trade scenario between Knicks and Pistons
Knicks: receive 12th pick, Aron Baynes,
Pistons: receive Courtney Lee, KO

Step 1: 12th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Donavan Mitchell

Step 2: 15th pick: (via Blazers)
Draft: Luke Kennard

Step 3: 20th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Azenjes Paseknics

Step 4: 26th pick (Via Blazers)
Draft: DJ Wilson

Step 5: 44th pick
Draft: Wesley Iwundu

Step 6: With (Our 58th pick)
Draft: 58th pick: Jakob WIley

Step 7: Free Agent
Sign: Jalen Jones from (D-League)

Starting Lineup
Mitchell, Kennard, Crabbe, KP, Willy

Bench:
Baker, Jalen Jones, Kuz, DJ Wilson, Azenjes

Reserve:
Vucevic, Lance , Noah, Jacob Wiley, Iwundu

Summer League Invite:
Deonte Burton
Andrew White
Alexander Venzecov
VJ Beachem

We'd be hemorraging talent in your proposals. Melo would easily be the best player in the first, yet we'd have to include our 8th pick and end up with 3 inferior picks? Same thing with the Pistons deal, we offer the two best players, on pretty good contracts to only move up two spots? Doesn't seem prudent.

"Talent" that is theoretical at the moment. I'm an advocate of a full and total rebuild around KP but that does not mean we should take cents on the dollar to get there. And what we'd be doing in your proposals is surrendering game-changing talent for picks that may never develop into anything, which is bad business IMO.

I was reading 'New York Knicks: Team-specific 2017 NBA Mock Draft with trades 1.0' on NY Basketball for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.
http://dailyknicks.com/2017/06/12/new-york-knicks-team-specific-2017-nba-mock-draft-with-trades-1-0/

Ogden weighs in on his makeover. A backcourt of Smith and Mitchell is superior in my opinion than say Rubio and Monk or Frank N. I didn't see John Lueur play much last season. A 12 pick in last years first round.

I think the most realistic, best case offseason would be to take back crappy contracts for picks. Deal with having them on the team for a few years while we grow some talent. I would also like to see the Knicks carve out a bunch of space for the 2nd rounders/undrafted college players, because the Knicks have shown an ability to groom these types of players. I would love to flip those types of guys next off season for picks

We let Rose walk. We trade Lee for a draft pick, and maybe cap relief. Sign Holiday for less. We also sign some vets on short term deals, to add some depth and experience.

Try to trade Melo, but not just for the sake of trading him, that wont help the team long term. We saw what happened with the Ewing trade.

Minny is propbably the only team that Noah could be traded to in the short term. Probably wont be possible until Thibs sees how Noah looks next season. Maybe a deal could be made at the first trade deadline.

If we dont draft a PG, try to find one in free agency. Baker might end up surprising some fans next season, but he cant do it alone.

Paris907 wrote:I was reading 'New York Knicks: Team-specific 2017 NBA Mock Draft with trades 1.0' on NY Basketball for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.
http://dailyknicks.com/2017/06/12/new-york-knicks-team-specific-2017-nba-mock-draft-with-trades-1-0/

Ogden weighs in on his makeover. A backcourt of Smith and Mitchell is superior in my opinion than say Rubio and Monk or Frank N. I didn't see John Lueur play much last season. A 12 pick in last years first round.

Yeah i saw it to and it basically breaks down to this.

We first make a trade with Portland which is:
L.Thomas and pick #44
for
M.Harkless and pick #20

we then trade with Detroit.
KOQ, C.Lee and pick #20
for
J.Leuer and pick #12

we use pick #8 on DSJ and pick #12 on D.Mitchell

PG--DSJ
SG--D.Mitchell
SF--Melo/Harkless
PF--KP/J.Leuer
C--Willy/Noah

1) Rose walks
2) Sign Jrue Holiday and re-sign his brother
3) Draft Frank N in the first

I'll let Phil worry about the rest.

newyorker4ever wrote:

Paris907 wrote:I was reading 'New York Knicks: Team-specific 2017 NBA Mock Draft with trades 1.0' on NY Basketball for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.
http://dailyknicks.com/2017/06/12/new-york-knicks-team-specific-2017-nba-mock-draft-with-trades-1-0/

Ogden weighs in on his makeover. A backcourt of Smith and Mitchell is superior in my opinion than say Rubio and Monk or Frank N. I didn't see John Lueur play much last season. A 12 pick in last years first round.

Yeah i saw it to and it basically breaks down to this.

We first make a trade with Portland which is:
L.Thomas and pick #44
for
M.Harkless and pick #20

we then trade with Detroit.
KOQ, C.Lee and pick #20
for
J.Leuer and pick #12

we use pick #8 on DSJ and pick #12 on D.Mitchell

PG--DSJ
SG--D.Mitchell
SF--Melo/Harkless
PF--KP/J.Leuer
C--Willy/Noah

I don't like pairing Smith with another short guard but I am not really a an of Mitchell either. Everything else would be cool though.

Focus on defense. Don't worry about offense this year, you won't have the firepower to contend for a title vs Cleveland or Golden State anyway. You need the ability to have 3-4 all stars right now to win a ring. Forget offense, focus on youth and defense.

For the veterans/experienced.
Hope Noah comes in better shape as he is our best big man defender and rebounder. The defense slipped most when Noah was out. Noah plays active D.
Lance Thomas plays defense. He can shoot the 3. Keeper.
Courtney Lee plays defense. He can shoot the 3 and create a little. Keeper.
Justin Holiday plays defense. He can shoot the 3 and mid-range J. Keeper. Need to be re-signed.
Sasha plays defense. He can shoot the 3. If he's there for vet min, I keep.
Kuzminskas plays little defense. He can shoot the 3. Drive a little. Cheap,so I keep him but as 2nd back up, not first backup.
O'Quinn is active, His defense isn't always effective but he does give effort. Cheap contract. Keep.

Derrick Rose plays no defense. He can't shoot. Great driver. Doesn't pass much. Let him walk.

Youth from last year is KP, Willy, Baker.

Before draft/FA/trades, rotation in mind:
Noah/Willy/O'Quinn
Porzingis/4
3/Thomas/Kuzminskas
Lee/Holiday/Sasha
1/Baker

Add defense/youth with Ntilikina with 8th pick. 18 years old. Long arms. Could be a smaller greek freak, or perhaps only a role player, but one who defends and can bring some combo guard skills. There's your "1" for next year, can share PG minutes with Baker.

Hope Boston loses out on Hayward in free agency. Then can't come to agreement for a trade with Indiana/Chicago for trade for George/Butler as asking price too high for players that are free agents in 2018.

If we can deal Melo to Boston for a deal centered around Crowder, and Boston can do this after free agency begins because they are way under the cap, then you could do Crowder and 2018 first round pick, for Melo straight up.

Knicks then re-sign Justin Holiday. In free agency, look to shore up defense at the 4 with someone like Amir Johnson, who is a versatile defender.

Final roster:

Noah/Willy/O'Quinn
Porzingis/Amir/NDour
Crowder/Thomas/Kuz
Lee/Holiday/Sasha
Ntilikina/Baker/Randle

As Porzingis evolves into a stronger player physically and better on offense we could be extremely good on defense with a lineup like Porzingis/Amir/Crowder/Holiday/Ntilikina. Also need Nti to develop well on offense.

The team in 2017-18 could be really bad possibly, which is ok, as you would draft top 5 next year. If by any chance the defensive ability changes things and now you have a defensive team that can compete almost every night, you then maybe get surprised at a team that pushes for a lower playoff spot being built around KP. KP is too young and not good enough to carry a team, but if the team plays really good defense and shoots well from outside, they could be competitive if KP can give us 22 points a night next year (which I think is possible). KP - 22, Crowder - 14, Lee - 12, Nti - 10, Willy - 12 points a game off the bench. Something like that.

yellowboy90 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Paris907 wrote:I was reading 'New York Knicks: Team-specific 2017 NBA Mock Draft with trades 1.0' on NY Basketball for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.
http://dailyknicks.com/2017/06/12/new-york-knicks-team-specific-2017-nba-mock-draft-with-trades-1-0/

Ogden weighs in on his makeover. A backcourt of Smith and Mitchell is superior in my opinion than say Rubio and Monk or Frank N. I didn't see John Lueur play much last season. A 12 pick in last years first round.

Yeah i saw it to and it basically breaks down to this.

We first make a trade with Portland which is:
L.Thomas and pick #44
for
M.Harkless and pick #20

we then trade with Detroit.
KOQ, C.Lee and pick #20
for
J.Leuer and pick #12

we use pick #8 on DSJ and pick #12 on D.Mitchell

PG--DSJ
SG--D.Mitchell
SF--Melo/Harkless
PF--KP/J.Leuer
C--Willy/Noah

I don't like pairing Smith with another short guard but I am not really a an of Mitchell either. Everything else would be cool though.

I'd have the same concerns as well. Do you think the two could space the floor effectively enough to maximize their ability to drive?