Knicks · Cavs and GSW proving Defesne does not win championships (page 2)
fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
In the East, Boston, Miami, and the Cavs probably believe they can make a run at them. Out west, the Spurs, OKC, Houston, maybe the Clips, and a few others might believe they're a player or two away.
This suggests something Melo must be taking notes on. If, as Phil suggested, Melo actually cares about winning and playing meaningful minutes somewhere NY indeed is not that place. Tightly coupled to that reality is the fact that there are few places where that opportunity will exist. Cavs, Spurs, and Houston don't want him. Slim pickings after that.
Melo is more likely going out a loser and one who will not be treated kindly in retrospect if rumors of his vindictiveness are true. He'd be smart to waive that NTC sooner than later before these teams looking to reload paint him out of the picture.
knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.
No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%
Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
knicks1248 wrote:Every team that has won a chip in the last 30+ years has been a top 5 defensive team. In the NBA its not enough, you need firepower on BOTH sides. If you want to win a title you cant get around either... you be BOTH a top offensive and defensive team.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
Just because teams are scoring 120 vs. 90 doesnt mean there is no more defense. Its about pace. The #s back this up. The rules have change so no hand checking and holding frees up guards. Guess what? There are more scoring guards, more pace, more 3s and higher scores. Best teams are still great on both sides of the ball. That has never changed.
newyorknewyork wrote:Golden State would trade for Willy in a heart beat
What would they be giving up? I don't see a trade that I think they'd be willing to do that I'd also want us to do.
fwk00 wrote:I think rather than coronate the GSW as the near-future reigning champs, we should look at teams who might disagree.In the East, Boston, Miami, and the Cavs probably believe they can make a run at them. Out west, the Spurs, OKC, Houston, maybe the Clips, and a few others might believe they're a player or two away.
This suggests something Melo must be taking notes on. If, as Phil suggested, Melo actually cares about winning and playing meaningful minutes somewhere NY indeed is not that place. Tightly coupled to that reality is the fact that there are few places where that opportunity will exist. Cavs, Spurs, and Houston don't want him. Slim pickings after that.
Melo is more likely going out a loser and one who will not be treated kindly in retrospect if rumors of his vindictiveness are true. He'd be smart to waive that NTC sooner than later before these teams looking to reload paint him out of the picture.
you keep thinking that its all on melo, but phil is not going to accept trash regardless to where you see a possible trade scenario. He wants a starter capable of 20 ppg, and a team can't give up their much needed role players.. No team is going to deplete their depth for one aging star.
GSW didn't have to deplete their depth for kd, the cavs didn't have to deplete their depth for love. phil is not trading, melo will trade himself and should be to a absolute title contender.
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Every team that has won a chip in the last 30+ years has been a top 5 defensive team. In the NBA its not enough, you need firepower on BOTH sides. If you want to win a title you cant get around either... you be BOTH a top offensive and defensive team.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
Just because teams are scoring 120 vs. 90 doesnt mean there is no more defense. Its about pace. The #s back this up. The rules have change so no hand checking and holding frees up guards. Guess what? There are more scoring guards, more pace, more 3s and higher scores. Best teams are still great on both sides of the ball. That has never changed.
totally agree, so we should be building a team that is conducive to todays pace and style. IMO willy is not a priority piece of the puzzle, he's definitely trade bait, and his value is at least mid 1st round right now. wouldn't you agree
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Golden State would trade for Willy in a heart beat
What would they be giving up? I don't see a trade that I think they'd be willing to do that I'd also want us to do.
There is no realistic trade scenario which we would trade Willy to GS. Point being that 1248 says we need to trade Willy to get smaller and faster and shoot more 3s. And I'm saying the team that he wants to model the team after would take Willy on their squad in a heart beat.
knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Every team that has won a chip in the last 30+ years has been a top 5 defensive team. In the NBA its not enough, you need firepower on BOTH sides. If you want to win a title you cant get around either... you be BOTH a top offensive and defensive team.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
Just because teams are scoring 120 vs. 90 doesnt mean there is no more defense. Its about pace. The #s back this up. The rules have change so no hand checking and holding frees up guards. Guess what? There are more scoring guards, more pace, more 3s and higher scores. Best teams are still great on both sides of the ball. That has never changed.
totally agree, so we should be building a team that is conducive to todays pace and style. IMO willy is not a priority piece of the puzzle, he's definitely trade bait, and his value is at least mid 1st round right now. wouldn't you agree
Even if that was the case it would be poor management to trade Willy right now. Forget abiut the fact that he could potentially be something even better then projected. But in 2 more years he could be a 16-12-4ast guy. Maybe even a blk a game. On 55fg% and probably 1.5 3s made per game. His value would be a lot higher then a mid round first round draft pick.
newyorknewyork wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Every team that has won a chip in the last 30+ years has been a top 5 defensive team. In the NBA its not enough, you need firepower on BOTH sides. If you want to win a title you cant get around either... you be BOTH a top offensive and defensive team.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
Just because teams are scoring 120 vs. 90 doesnt mean there is no more defense. Its about pace. The #s back this up. The rules have change so no hand checking and holding frees up guards. Guess what? There are more scoring guards, more pace, more 3s and higher scores. Best teams are still great on both sides of the ball. That has never changed.
totally agree, so we should be building a team that is conducive to todays pace and style. IMO willy is not a priority piece of the puzzle, he's definitely trade bait, and his value is at least mid 1st round right now. wouldn't you agree
Even if that was the case it would be poor management to trade Willy right now. Forget abiut the fact that he could potentially be something even better then projected. But in 2 more years he could be a 16-12-4ast guy. Maybe even a blk a game. On 55fg% and probably 1.5 3s made per game. His value would be a lot higher then a mid round first round draft pick.
Agree. Hernangomez exceeded everyone's expectations, inside and outside the organization this season. Willy develops a mid range jumper and some D, he'll be all-star caliber. He's earned the time to prove he can become that type of player.
newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Golden State would trade for Willy in a heart beat
What would they be giving up? I don't see a trade that I think they'd be willing to do that I'd also want us to do.There is no realistic trade scenario which we would trade Willy to GS. Point being that 1248 says we need to trade Willy to get smaller and faster and shoot more 3s. And I'm saying the team that he wants to model the team after would take Willy on their squad in a heart beat.
Oh sorry. I misunderstood the context!
newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Golden State would trade for Willy in a heart beat
What would they be giving up? I don't see a trade that I think they'd be willing to do that I'd also want us to do.There is no realistic trade scenario which we would trade Willy to GS. Point being that 1248 says we need to trade Willy to get smaller and faster and shoot more 3s. And I'm saying the team that he wants to model the team after would take Willy on their squad in a heart beat.
yeah they would if they didn't have 5 other bigs already on the roster, NOAH, KP, Plumlee, KOQ, ndour,
How many bigs did you see have any real impact in these playoffs, that weren't perimeter base bigs
knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Golden State would trade for Willy in a heart beat
What would they be giving up? I don't see a trade that I think they'd be willing to do that I'd also want us to do.There is no realistic trade scenario which we would trade Willy to GS. Point being that 1248 says we need to trade Willy to get smaller and faster and shoot more 3s. And I'm saying the team that he wants to model the team after would take Willy on their squad in a heart beat.
yeah they would if they didn't have 5 other bigs already on the roster, NOAH, KP, Plumlee, KOQ, ndour,
How many bigs did you see have any real impact in these playoffs, that weren't perimeter base bigs
Willy was a 2nd rd pick from overseas. Didnt know what they had in him. Started to come on after the all star break. Plummlee was an undrafted FA who is a D-league player until Noah got injured and the season was over. KOQ and Plumlee are both expendable. Now that Willy established himself. KOQ is probably put on the block.
Cavs with LeBron and Warriors with their collection of talent have the talent to impose their will on teams. So sure if you have unique talents who are 6'9 or 6'11 with guard handles and 3 point strokes and ability to rebound like centers and ability to guard 3 positions and ability to score anywhere on the court. Then the need for a stud big man isnt a nessesity. Just like Jordan and Pippen didnt need a star big man when they were winning their chips during the big man era of the 90s. Even the Suns when MDA burst on the scene had Shawn Marion putting up 10rebs 2blks 2stls ability to guard 3-4. And nail 3s. Which gave Amare to green light focus on being a high % finisher rather then a Tim Duncan type complete player.
So if your telling me that we are trading Willy for a transcending type of rare talent who can impose his will on the game due to being able to do things most players can't. Then sure I'm all for that.
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fish Mike .. Bravo! No more to be said!
u laid it out well.
The GS Warriors run n gun game to outscore opponents only work well the past 3 seasons because all of their opponents TRY to run the same system. The NBA has no more creative strategic coaches.
Funny, this same run n gun system were the only type of system the international teams performed in the 1970's 80's and 90's. When the Olympics arrived all the international teams ran this same run n gun system on the Original USA Dream-Team, and found it hard to score more than 50 pts a game vs the hardcore defense the Original USA Dream-Team applied. The reason the Original USA Dream Team won games having 70 pt leads.
The Knicks has to keep all their Big-men especially Noah/Quinn/and Willy because they are the only low-post players on the Knicks roster, plus injuries take place constantly to big men throughout a 82 game season.
The only coaches playing Bigman Ball in the NBA are Spurs coach Pop and Grizz coach David Fizdale.
Every other NBA team are trying to perform the same system as GS Warriors n Cavs.
Its real funny funny funny .. how the New Orleans Pelicans traded to get Cousins to fit in a lineup alongside Anthony Davis two elite Big men. The funniest part are the Pelicans has the best Small-Ball head-coach in the business Mr. Alvin Gentry. Assistant Coach Gentry was behind the seen for Phoenix Suns success having Nash, And when GM Kerr left Phoenix Suns he took Gentry with him to GS Warriors.
Shaq once stated that Dantoni's coaching staff were clueless of defense because none knew how to position big men.
knicks1248 wrote:fwk00 wrote:I think rather than coronate the GSW as the near-future reigning champs, we should look at teams who might disagree.In the East, Boston, Miami, and the Cavs probably believe they can make a run at them. Out west, the Spurs, OKC, Houston, maybe the Clips, and a few others might believe they're a player or two away.
This suggests something Melo must be taking notes on. If, as Phil suggested, Melo actually cares about winning and playing meaningful minutes somewhere NY indeed is not that place. Tightly coupled to that reality is the fact that there are few places where that opportunity will exist. Cavs, Spurs, and Houston don't want him. Slim pickings after that.
Melo is more likely going out a loser and one who will not be treated kindly in retrospect if rumors of his vindictiveness are true. He'd be smart to waive that NTC sooner than later before these teams looking to reload paint him out of the picture.
you keep thinking that its all on melo, but phil is not going to accept trash regardless to where you see a possible trade scenario. He wants a starter capable of 20 ppg, and a team can't give up their much needed role players.. No team is going to deplete their depth for one aging star.
GSW didn't have to deplete their depth for kd, the cavs didn't have to deplete their depth for love. phil is not trading, melo will trade himself and should be to a absolute title contender.
What legit title contender is going to give up anything but trash and their trash picks for Melo? Absolute title contenders' first rounders are going to be where for the next 5 years? maybe #20? Melo's going to trade himself for bench flotsam and a 2023 first rounder that might be a sleeper force in the league by the time Phil is something like 95 years old? GSW didn't have to deplete anything because KD was a FA who would have signed there because of the free ring. Why is them depleting anything even an issue, when they didn't have to trade for him? And Cleveland's situation with Love was based on them sucking major donkeykong before LeQ's Coming Home party. Was nice to have a Wiggins to ship off at the time. Think the Cavs picks are going to be at that level now?
I don't see how a contender is going to give Phil what he wants, unless he really does decide to take trash to be rid of Melo.
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Every team that has won a chip in the last 30+ years has been a top 5 defensive team. In the NBA its not enough, you need firepower on BOTH sides. If you want to win a title you cant get around either... you be BOTH a top offensive and defensive team.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
Just because teams are scoring 120 vs. 90 doesnt mean there is no more defense. Its about pace. The #s back this up. The rules have change so no hand checking and holding frees up guards. Guess what? There are more scoring guards, more pace, more 3s and higher scores. Best teams are still great on both sides of the ball. That has never changed.
+1
Saying defense isn't important because teams can't be held to 80 or 90 points anymore is akin to saying defense isn't important because people dunk more than they did in the 1950's. Skillsets have improved drastically. The only time in the NBA defense isn't important is All Star Weekend. When the Cavs were getting blown out in the first two games, all anyone was talking about was how KD was driving and dunking with impunity. That's sucky defense, not run and gun making defense irrelevant.