Knicks · Cavs and GSW proving Defesne does not win championships (page 3)
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Every team that has won a chip in the last 30+ years has been a top 5 defensive team. In the NBA its not enough, you need firepower on BOTH sides. If you want to win a title you cant get around either... you be BOTH a top offensive and defensive team.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
Just because teams are scoring 120 vs. 90 doesnt mean there is no more defense. Its about pace. The #s back this up. The rules have change so no hand checking and holding frees up guards. Guess what? There are more scoring guards, more pace, more 3s and higher scores. Best teams are still great on both sides of the ball. That has never changed.
+1
Saying defense isn't important because teams can't be held to 80 or 90 points anymore is akin to saying defense isn't important because people dunk more than they did in the 1950's. Skillsets have improved drastically. The only time in the NBA defense isn't important is All Star Weekend. When the Cavs were getting blown out in the first two games, all anyone was talking about was how KD was driving and dunking with impunity. That's sucky defense, not run and gun making defense irrelevant.
jrodmc wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Every team that has won a chip in the last 30+ years has been a top 5 defensive team. In the NBA its not enough, you need firepower on BOTH sides. If you want to win a title you cant get around either... you be BOTH a top offensive and defensive team.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:did you watch more than 5 minutes?fishmike wrote:fitzfarm wrote:fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.SupremeCommander wrote:fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the leagueIf golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace
What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS
How much defense did you really see in these playoffs, and if thats good defense, what does that say about the rest of the league..The jazz were the #1 defensive team majority of the season, and they didn't have a pray..I love rudy gobert, the best defensive big man in the league, but against the GSW, he looked like trash.
When you got the kind of bigs that can only defend the paint, and their man his posted up beyond the arc waiting for the ball to possible swing his way, protecting the paint becomes a moot point, and we saw that all season long.
In the 4th qtr of the game, labron powered his way for easy ass 1 on 1 layups, GSW was like go ahead, we are going to protect the 3 ball.
You start a thread saying defense doesnt win the title anymore, but the title was won by the best defensive team (at least statistically). The Jazz didnt have a prayer because they have 1/3 of the talent.No defense played in the finals?
Cavs reg season (FG/3FG): 47%/38%
Cavs playoffs (FG/3FG): 46%/38%
GS season (FG/3FG): 49.5%/38%
GS playoffs (FG/3FG): 47.5%/38%Shooting was almost identical. GS won because they had the most firepower AND the best defense. They start 4 all stars and have a bench that starts on most teams. This was not about style or the 3 point shot or defense. The team with the most talent (by alot). This is not rocket surgery
Fire power and talent means more offense know matter how you look at it, why you think shump sat on the bench majority of the 2nd half, 47/48% shooting 38% from 3 land, in the playoffs, that's a great offense team.
I never said defense doesn't play a role because you have to make key stops at some point,but clearly players want to hook up with other great scorers. The days of scoring80 and 90 points, and slowing down the pace to pound the ball in the paint are done.
why can't you agree with that like it's not super obvious
Just because teams are scoring 120 vs. 90 doesnt mean there is no more defense. Its about pace. The #s back this up. The rules have change so no hand checking and holding frees up guards. Guess what? There are more scoring guards, more pace, more 3s and higher scores. Best teams are still great on both sides of the ball. That has never changed.
+1Saying defense isn't important because teams can't be held to 80 or 90 points anymore is akin to saying defense isn't important because people dunk more than they did in the 1950's. Skillsets have improved drastically. The only time in the NBA defense isn't important is All Star Weekend. When the Cavs were getting blown out in the first two games, all anyone was talking about was how KD was driving and dunking with impunity. That's sucky defense, not run and gun making defense irrelevant.
I think you guys are taking the title of this thread way out of proportion. If you say defense wins championship, are we going to sit here and debate that offense doesn't matter.
All Im trying to state is that, having a high powered offense, trumps a stellar defense at this point in todays NBA. It's a classic case of good defense/better offense.
The concept in the NBA is early offense, the idea is to never give the defense a chance to even set. There wasn't a single shot clock violation in the entire finals, I loss count of how many possessions left more than 18 seconds on the shot clock from both teams.
knicks1248 wrote:IDK you could be right, it just seems like every yr more and more teams are starting to do the 7 seconds or less thing. Even when JH came in, he stated it's all about early offense..
That doesn't mean defense is less important. It just means your defense has to be extra ready in those first 7 seconds.
Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:IDK you could be right, it just seems like every yr more and more teams are starting to do the 7 seconds or less thing. Even when JH came in, he stated it's all about early offense..
That doesn't mean defense is less important. It just means your defense has to be extra ready in those first 7 seconds.
It's tough when the ball touches 2 to 4 hands in a span of 5 seconds and when you have a team full of catch and shoot guys, it's almost impossible to stop that.