Knicks · Melo to Cle works (page 2)

fishmike wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:My initial reactions -- the overall trade isn't so bad from an overall equity perspective but I think Cleveland would want more for Love.

That said -- does Portland really believe they can defend GS with both Nurkic/Love on the floor?

what more would they get for Love than MElo and a late #1?

For Portland this doesnt help their cap situation but it balances their roster much better and turns their glut of expensive guards into a much more liquid asset in Love as well.

I think its reasonable... Im not into the my trade is better than yours contest. I tried to look at the simplest option

The Warriors have 4 all-stars and 2 MVPs. There's just no way this trade pushes Cleveland past them. The Cavs need to add 4th all-star (or near all-star) or 2nd MVP this summer. They need to keep Love and add Melo or another all-star. If they give up enough draft picks and/or take back bad contracts, they should be able to do that. If they can't, as might as well throw in the towel and rebuild.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:My initial reactions -- the overall trade isn't so bad from an overall equity perspective but I think Cleveland would want more for Love.

That said -- does Portland really believe they can defend GS with both Nurkic/Love on the floor?

what more would they get for Love than MElo and a late #1?

For Portland this doesnt help their cap situation but it balances their roster much better and turns their glut of expensive guards into a much more liquid asset in Love as well.

I think its reasonable... Im not into the my trade is better than yours contest. I tried to look at the simplest option

The Warriors have 4 all-stars and 2 MVPs. There's just no way this trade pushes Cleveland past them. The Cavs need to add 4th all-star (or near all-star) or 2nd MVP this summer. They need to keep Love and add Melo or another all-star. If they give up enough draft picks and/or take back bad contracts, they should be able to do that. If they can't, as might as well throw in the towel and rebuild.

good call. Any suggestions on how with their current parts? Im sure Lebron would appreciate the latter sentiment

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:My initial reactions -- the overall trade isn't so bad from an overall equity perspective but I think Cleveland would want more for Love.

That said -- does Portland really believe they can defend GS with both Nurkic/Love on the floor?

what more would they get for Love than MElo and a late #1?

For Portland this doesnt help their cap situation but it balances their roster much better and turns their glut of expensive guards into a much more liquid asset in Love as well.

I think its reasonable... Im not into the my trade is better than yours contest. I tried to look at the simplest option

The Warriors have 4 all-stars and 2 MVPs. There's just no way this trade pushes Cleveland past them. The Cavs need to add 4th all-star (or near all-star) or 2nd MVP this summer. They need to keep Love and add Melo or another all-star. If they give up enough draft picks and/or take back bad contracts, they should be able to do that. If they can't, as might as well throw in the towel and rebuild.

good call. Any suggestions on how with their current parts? Im sure Lebron would appreciate the latter sentiment

Have you missed the other Love-Melo threads? I didn't get why you even started another one. I already proposed trades there.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:My initial reactions -- the overall trade isn't so bad from an overall equity perspective but I think Cleveland would want more for Love.

That said -- does Portland really believe they can defend GS with both Nurkic/Love on the floor?

what more would they get for Love than MElo and a late #1?

For Portland this doesnt help their cap situation but it balances their roster much better and turns their glut of expensive guards into a much more liquid asset in Love as well.

I think its reasonable... Im not into the my trade is better than yours contest. I tried to look at the simplest option

The Warriors have 4 all-stars and 2 MVPs. There's just no way this trade pushes Cleveland past them. The Cavs need to add 4th all-star (or near all-star) or 2nd MVP this summer. They need to keep Love and add Melo or another all-star. If they give up enough draft picks and/or take back bad contracts, they should be able to do that. If they can't, as might as well throw in the towel and rebuild.

good call. Any suggestions on how with their current parts? Im sure Lebron would appreciate the latter sentiment

Have you missed the other Love-Melo threads? I didn't get why you even started another one. I already proposed trades there.

oh sorry.. was the proposal above mentioned?

fishmike wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:My initial reactions -- the overall trade isn't so bad from an overall equity perspective but I think Cleveland would want more for Love.

That said -- does Portland really believe they can defend GS with both Nurkic/Love on the floor?

what more would they get for Love than MElo and a late #1?

For Portland this doesnt help their cap situation but it balances their roster much better and turns their glut of expensive guards into a much more liquid asset in Love as well.

I think its reasonable... Im not into the my trade is better than yours contest. I tried to look at the simplest option

I just don't think the late #1 does anything for Cleveland who is losing much younger Love in exchange for Melo.

Thinking either NY/Portland would have to send Cavs a player that can help them score/defend now/next year --- maybe a C-Lee or Harkless type to Cleveland.

yellowboy90 wrote:Here is my trade centered around Love instead of Thompson. It's pretty much the same for Cleveland and NY.

NY- Trades Melo, Lee, O'Quinn, pick 44, and pick 58

NY- receives Leonard, Turner, Frye, pick 20, pick 26, Cle 2021 1st(top 18-20 protected)

Por- Trades Harkless, Leonard, Turner, pick 20, and pick 26

Por- receives Love, Shump, O'Quinn, pick 44, and pick 58

Cle- Trades Love, Frye, Taveres, and 2021 protected 1st

Cle- receives Melo, Lee, Harkless,

Why it makes sense to me:

NY gets rid of Melo under the guise of receiving picks for Melo even though they are really just getting picks for taking on Salary. It's a save face move. Portland does not save that much money( I think around $5m without the picks and players) but they reallocate it to gain a better player in Love, a back up big for Nurkic, and get a defensive guard who can actually knock down 3s at league average. I think they really improve their passing with Love and O'quinn too but Portland seems to elevate the passing of their bigs so who knows what those bigs will do now. Cleveland gets a boatload of wings to match GSW. Harkless can not stop Durant but this gives them another long athletic body to match up on Durant who has played him a lot in the past. I think Lee is an upgrade from Shump and Melo is Melo.

Don't like that at all for the Knicks -- taking on Leonard/Turner/Frye awful deals for 2 late picks this year and late 2021 pick -- no thanks.

jullybully21 wrote:How about this trade between the Cavs, Knicks and Nuggets.

CAVS trade: Kevin Love, Richard Jefferson, Iman Shumpert, 1st round
CAVS receive: Courtney Lee, Melo, Kyle O'Qquinn and Wilson Chandler

Knicks Trade: Melo, Courntey Lee, Kyle O'Quinn, Kuz
Knicks Receive: Juancho Hermangomez, Gary Harris, Kenneth Faried, Channging Frye, First round pick from the Cavs, Possible 13th overall pick from the Nuggets(?)

Nuggets trade: Wilson Chandler, Kenneth Faried, Gary Harris, Juancho
Nuggets receive: Kevin Love, Shumpert, Jefferson, Kuz

Why for the Cavs? The Cavs receive Melo, who will make LeBron happy and provides an additional ball handler who can create shots for himself and for others. Lee, Chandler and O'Quinn gives the Cavs depth which they lacked in this finals. Can you imagine a lineup where you have a more consistent 2guard in Lee who provides shooting and plays defense, it also allows the Cavs to push JR on the bench. Wilson Chandler is better than RJ and he can play defense and score.

Why for the Knicks? The Knicks get two quality young players in Juancho and Gary Harris. Gary Harris is a two guard that can shoot and play some defense. Juancho is a stretch 4 that can rebound and fits with Porzingis. The Knicks take on the salary of Faried and Frye, but those players can be filled to other teams. Frye alone will most likely be coveted by a team like the Clippers, the Wizards, Thunder(who needs shooting), and possibly Philly(who needs lots of shooting and to meet the salary floor, maybe for one of their 2nd round picks).

Why for the Nuggets? They get Kevin Love. AND Yes Kevin Love and Jokic would be a terrible fit DEFENSIVELY but their fit Offensively would be insane. They know they're not going to win the championship anytime but want to make the playoffs which I believe Kevin Love will help them to do. Offensively they'll be really exciting and that will great a buzz around. They get a 2guard that can defend and replace the lost of Gary Harris. Kuz is a cheap bench piece to replace some of the depth they lost. They will also have enough money to resign Gallo and possibly get a PG.

Would love to get my hands on Harris/Juancho from Nuggets but don't see them parting (particularly with Harris) to bring in Love. Jokic/Love 5/4 D would be brutal.

LivingLegend wrote:

fishmike wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:My initial reactions -- the overall trade isn't so bad from an overall equity perspective but I think Cleveland would want more for Love.

That said -- does Portland really believe they can defend GS with both Nurkic/Love on the floor?

what more would they get for Love than MElo and a late #1?

For Portland this doesnt help their cap situation but it balances their roster much better and turns their glut of expensive guards into a much more liquid asset in Love as well.

I think its reasonable... Im not into the my trade is better than yours contest. I tried to look at the simplest option

I just don't think the late #1 does anything for Cleveland who is losing much younger Love in exchange for Melo.

Thinking either NY/Portland would have to send Cavs a player that can help them score/defend now/next year --- maybe a C-Lee or Harkless type to Cleveland.

Harkless is rumored to be waived.

Could more players be involved? For sure... but I tried to keep it as basic as possible and sensible for all teams. I basically ask the question which is if I am a fan of each team do I say yea, and I would do it for all 3 sides.

Its good for Portland. Knicks dont have much say and for Cle was exatly is Love's value? Do you just go back with the same cast and hope the supporting cast plays better? Or do you try to get Lebron more help?

For Cle they have pressure to do something. How are improving?

It will be interesting (terrifying) to see what a Melo trade looks like

LivingLegend wrote:

jullybully21 wrote:How about this trade between the Cavs, Knicks and Nuggets.

CAVS trade: Kevin Love, Richard Jefferson, Iman Shumpert, 1st round
CAVS receive: Courtney Lee, Melo, Kyle O'Qquinn and Wilson Chandler

Knicks Trade: Melo, Courntey Lee, Kyle O'Quinn, Kuz
Knicks Receive: Juancho Hermangomez, Gary Harris, Kenneth Faried, Channging Frye, First round pick from the Cavs, Possible 13th overall pick from the Nuggets(?)

Nuggets trade: Wilson Chandler, Kenneth Faried, Gary Harris, Juancho
Nuggets receive: Kevin Love, Shumpert, Jefferson, Kuz

Why for the Cavs? The Cavs receive Melo, who will make LeBron happy and provides an additional ball handler who can create shots for himself and for others. Lee, Chandler and O'Quinn gives the Cavs depth which they lacked in this finals. Can you imagine a lineup where you have a more consistent 2guard in Lee who provides shooting and plays defense, it also allows the Cavs to push JR on the bench. Wilson Chandler is better than RJ and he can play defense and score.

Why for the Knicks? The Knicks get two quality young players in Juancho and Gary Harris. Gary Harris is a two guard that can shoot and play some defense. Juancho is a stretch 4 that can rebound and fits with Porzingis. The Knicks take on the salary of Faried and Frye, but those players can be filled to other teams. Frye alone will most likely be coveted by a team like the Clippers, the Wizards, Thunder(who needs shooting), and possibly Philly(who needs lots of shooting and to meet the salary floor, maybe for one of their 2nd round picks).

Why for the Nuggets? They get Kevin Love. AND Yes Kevin Love and Jokic would be a terrible fit DEFENSIVELY but their fit Offensively would be insane. They know they're not going to win the championship anytime but want to make the playoffs which I believe Kevin Love will help them to do. Offensively they'll be really exciting and that will great a buzz around. They get a 2guard that can defend and replace the lost of Gary Harris. Kuz is a cheap bench piece to replace some of the depth they lost. They will also have enough money to resign Gallo and possibly get a PG.

Would love to get my hands on Harris/Juancho from Nuggets but don't see them parting (particularly with Harris) to bring in Love. Jokic/Love 5/4 D would be brutal.

Yeah Love/Jokic would be brutal on defense but on offense they would be amazing. I'm pretty sure they would get to the playoffs with a Love/Jokic. They would also be one of the most exciting teams considering their offense should be elite.

If no good deal for melo--you keep him

He can be a high end 6th man--still play 27-30 min in a scoring role off the bench.

keep love, trade thompson find a partner for thompson it will open up stuff up

BRIGGS wrote:If no good deal for melo--you keep him

He can be a high end 6th man--still play 27-30 min in a scoring role off the bench.

Will he stop holding the ball? Will he try on defense? If the answers are no then he should be gone.

reub wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If no good deal for melo--you keep him

He can be a high end 6th man--still play 27-30 min in a scoring role off the bench.

Will he stop holding the ball? Will he try on defense? If the answers are no then he should be gone.

Yeah seriously. If he's chucking up bad shots and not playing D, I don't care if it's 34 mpg as a starter or 29 mpg off the bench.

fishmike wrote:He joins JR, Lebron and rather than joining a title team he can envision himself the piece that gets a chip. I think that perception is very important to him. He can be olympic Melo again.

Cle gets:
Melo
Pick #20

NY gets:
Channding Frye
Evan Turner
Picks #15, #26

Port gets:
Kevin Love

Cle gets Melo and the first rounder in a deep draft should smooth the Love vs. Melo age argument. One can debate this but I see Melo as a better fit both basketball wise and chemistry wise with his AAU bestie. Maybe Cle takes a guy like Frank Mason who could be a great bench player for them. Considering what they got from Deron Williams in the playoffs I think they would do this.

Portland uses their 3 draft picks to break up their glut at guard and add Love, a young all star front court player. Using their 3 picks to move Turner and add Love looks great for them.

Knicks will waive Frye, move on Melo, only take on one bad contract but its a player that actually fits. Turner is a good defender and ball mover. Knicks can take on a really nice prospect at 15 and another option at #26. They can use the 2nd rounders to stash, etc as they will have a lot of guys and choices to make.

This is a low yield trade for the Knicks. They clearly get the worst of the transaction but I think this is palpable for them.

Nice trade. I like the idea of Turner and 2 picks. I doubt you could get more for Melo.

Allows NY to rebuild the backcourt with Turner and the #8. In a deep draft the later picks could pay off this year too. So essentially you could get 4 rotation players for Melo!

Then with the cap space from not resigning Rose, they can fill out any needs. Frye is a useful player too.

umm but its a terrible trade for the Cavs. Swapping Melo and Love is a downgrade. The Cavs can do better for Love. The Knicks are not winning this trade the best we can hope for is cap space and late picks. If Melo didnt have a no trade clause he would absolutely net a decent piece or 2 but with the no trade clause the Knicks are getting crap. We could take back garbage from Cleveland and hope for an unprotected pick 5 years from now but unless Clevaland gets Melo and another legitimate frontcourt starter to replace the rebounding by Love, or maybe a young 3 and D wing they arent trading Love. They could trade Love to Sacremento for the 5th and 10th pick. Why in the world would they trade him for Melo. I know many here think Melo is better than Love therefore worth more but thats not the only thing factoring into this trade. Love has more value around the league because he is younger, signed long term, and doesnt have a no trade clause. You can create a bidding war for his services, you can float him to 29 teams in a trade. With Melo we can trade him to maybe 4. Not only that, but all those teams want him as the last piece, they aren't gutting their core for Melo. Our best option is trying to get Melo to the Lakers. They have brutal contracts we can take. By taking those toxic deals we should get rewarded a nice asset like Russel

I really don't want Turner. His contract is crazy for what he brings to the table and it's a long contract.

Jmpasq wrote:umm but its a terrible trade for the Cavs. Swapping Melo and Love is a downgrade. The Cavs can do better for Love. The Knicks are not winning this trade the best we can hope for is cap space and late picks. If Melo didnt have a no trade clause he would absolutely net a decent piece or 2 but with the no trade clause the Knicks are getting crap. We could take back garbage from Cleveland and hope for an unprotected pick 5 years from now but unless Clevaland gets Melo and another legitimate frontcourt starter to replace the rebounding by Love, or maybe a young 3 and D wing they arent trading Love. They could trade Love to Sacremento for the 5th and 10th pick. Why in the world would they trade him for Melo. I know many here think Melo is better than Love therefore worth more but thats not the only thing factoring into this trade. Love has more value around the league because he is younger, signed long term, and doesnt have a no trade clause. You can create a bidding war for his services, you can float him to 29 teams in a trade. With Melo we can trade him to maybe 4. Not only that, but all those teams want him as the last piece, they aren't gutting their core for Melo. Our best option is trying to get Melo to the Lakers. They have brutal contracts we can take. By taking those toxic deals we should get rewarded a nice asset like Russel

The core of the trade has to be something like Melo and Noah for all of their high priced role players including Thompson (but hopefully not JR) and a 1st round pick. If they insist on KOQ in the trade, we get more picks from them (even though they're not for a few years). I think the salaries can be made to match within the 25% rule or almost match - we might need a 3rd team to include a player on a small contract.

Jmpasq wrote:umm but its a terrible trade for the Cavs. Swapping Melo and Love is a downgrade. The Cavs can do better for Love. The Knicks are not winning this trade the best we can hope for is cap space and late picks. If Melo didnt have a no trade clause he would absolutely net a decent piece or 2 but with the no trade clause the Knicks are getting crap. We could take back garbage from Cleveland and hope for an unprotected pick 5 years from now but unless Clevaland gets Melo and another legitimate frontcourt starter to replace the rebounding by Love, or maybe a young 3 and D wing they arent trading Love. They could trade Love to Sacremento for the 5th and 10th pick. Why in the world would they trade him for Melo. I know many here think Melo is better than Love therefore worth more but thats not the only thing factoring into this trade. Love has more value around the league because he is younger, signed long term, and doesnt have a no trade clause. You can create a bidding war for his services, you can float him to 29 teams in a trade. With Melo we can trade him to maybe 4. Not only that, but all those teams want him as the last piece, they aren't gutting their core for Melo. Our best option is trying to get Melo to the Lakers. They have brutal contracts we can take. By taking those toxic deals we should get rewarded a nice asset like Russel

People keep saying the Cavs could more than Melo for Love. From whom? Who are these players people think Cleveland could realistically get for Love? Paul George? Not happening. Jimmy Butler? Not happening. Picks and fringe players from the Celtics? Doesn't get them over the hump now while they still have Lebron.

Plus you're forgetting, if Lebron wants Melo over Love the Cavs will cave in.

When do all these incoming contracts expire fish? Dont want the Knicks to take back a long term cap hit. Still believe Love would be a good fit in Utah.

I beleve the best strategy for Phil is to let out that he gave trading Melo his best shot and he's resigned to trying to make it work with him on the Knicks Then wait and see which team (if any)gets desperate enough to call. Wont be easy to challenge the Warriors without a lot of firepower.

I cant remember if Melo can waive the extra cash he collects if he's traded. If Melo can waive that trade hit, he should if he wants to go to a contender.

BRIGGS wrote:If no good deal for melo--you keep him

He can be a high end 6th man--still play 27-30 min in a scoring role off the bench.

The biggest problem here is that Melo doesn't buy into team concepts. I'm 100% sure he will not buy in to 6th man role.

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:umm but its a terrible trade for the Cavs. Swapping Melo and Love is a downgrade. The Cavs can do better for Love. The Knicks are not winning this trade the best we can hope for is cap space and late picks. If Melo didnt have a no trade clause he would absolutely net a decent piece or 2 but with the no trade clause the Knicks are getting crap. We could take back garbage from Cleveland and hope for an unprotected pick 5 years from now but unless Clevaland gets Melo and another legitimate frontcourt starter to replace the rebounding by Love, or maybe a young 3 and D wing they arent trading Love. They could trade Love to Sacremento for the 5th and 10th pick. Why in the world would they trade him for Melo. I know many here think Melo is better than Love therefore worth more but thats not the only thing factoring into this trade. Love has more value around the league because he is younger, signed long term, and doesnt have a no trade clause. You can create a bidding war for his services, you can float him to 29 teams in a trade. With Melo we can trade him to maybe 4. Not only that, but all those teams want him as the last piece, they aren't gutting their core for Melo. Our best option is trying to get Melo to the Lakers. They have brutal contracts we can take. By taking those toxic deals we should get rewarded a nice asset like Russel

People keep saying the Cavs could more than Melo for Love. From whom? Who are these players people think Cleveland could realistically get for Love? Paul George? Not happening. Jimmy Butler? Not happening. Picks and fringe players from the Celtics? Doesn't get them over the hump now while they still have Lebron.

It depends on which Melo you think shows up in Cleveland. If it's the same guy who was terrible on defense and shot worse than every NBA team from the field last year, then practically any other trade will bring "more" than Melo. If it's Melo from a few years ago, that's another story.

Plus you're forgetting, if Lebron wants Melo over Love the Cavs will cave in.

If LeBron wanted Melo over Love, it would have already happened, unless you think LeBron recently changed his mind.