Knicks · Rose as an asset, keep or walk? (page 1)
But we did give up (Or Phil) THj/Grant (Basically a first round pick) and RoLo.
We got Justin Holiday who is a quality rotation player, two way guy. I like him. He is a free agent.
Rose was the main piece.
What's better, to keep Rose/Holiday as assets that you can trade down the road, or to let them walk and try to squeeze a player out of the $19M capspace we have.
I am not a Rose fan. I don't think he plays in a way that is productive towards team play and good defense. However if he is willing to take a 20$ million a year deal, would it hurt us to keep him? We need an attack guard next to KP/Willy. Baker is very good at setting the offense up and finding the open man when in drive mode, but he is not able to pressure a high level defense.
I think we should be open to keeping Rose on a 3 year deal, and then looking to trade him down the road. This is assuming we draft either Ntilikina or Monk. Both are more 2 guards with ballhandling skills than natural point guards. Both could play wth Rose on the court.
If we trade Melo, we won't have a single shot creator from the perimeter who is of a high level. We need one. I don't think Rose should be let go if he's willing to come back. I think we can trade him down the road. Free agency at $19 million won't get us much, in my opinion.
Most likely we draft Nti, according to latest reports. I think Rose and Ntilikina can share a backcourt. If Monk is there at 8, I take him. We know Monk plays totally fine with a player like Fox, who has similarities to Rose.
Rose/Monk
Rose/Nti
Either backcourt is fine with me. We use Rose in the short run to have an attacking player and then trade him as soon as we get a good offer. This way we don't lose RoLo/first round pick (THj or Grant) for nothing.
Knixkik wrote:Please just let him go. He can't shoot, pass, or defend. Probably the 3 most important factors today.
No doubt major limitations in his game.
But he can score and drive, also good transition player.
In the Triangle after the ASB he looked better than before they began running it regularly.
If we go with just Baker and a rookie in the backcourt, with Melo traded, Willy and KP will feel the defensive pressure. Need a player that can break down the defense a bit. Although so much depends on who the Knicks draft. Could they get a guard that can attack the defense, shoot a little coming off a big's screen? Monk can. Nti can not but he has potential.
He's not a player you want as part of your longterm core, but I feel we should try to get something out of this. We lost RoLo and a draft pick, and the capspace gained by letting Rose walk isn't much in today's market.
Maybe we can sign and trade him to a contender that wants bench help. Knicks don't have that many players with value, in my opinion. They have KP, Willy, Melo (not great value but could get you something), Lee, O'Quinn. Our 8th pick obviously. After that it's pretty dry. I think Rose has some value in the league. Teams will be interested in him, and I've read a few reports about that already. I hope we get something out of him in trade return, because we gave up two good assets in RoLo and JG/THj for him.
nyknickzingis wrote:Knixkik wrote:Please just let him go. He can't shoot, pass, or defend. Probably the 3 most important factors today.
No doubt major limitations in his game.
But he can score and drive, also good transition player.
In the Triangle after the ASB he looked better than before they began running it regularly.
If we go with just Baker and a rookie in the backcourt, with Melo traded, Willy and KP will feel the defensive pressure. Need a player that can break down the defense a bit. Although so much depends on who the Knicks draft. Could they get a guard that can attack the defense, shoot a little coming off a big's screen? Monk can. Nti can not but he has potential.He's not a player you want as part of your longterm core, but I feel we should try to get something out of this. We lost RoLo and a draft pick, and the capspace gained by letting Rose walk isn't much in today's market.
Maybe we can sign and trade him to a contender that wants bench help. Knicks don't have that many players with value, in my opinion. They have KP, Willy, Melo (not great value but could get you something), Lee, O'Quinn. Our 8th pick obviously. After that it's pretty dry. I think Rose has some value in the league. Teams will be interested in him, and I've read a few reports about that already. I hope we get something out of him in trade return, because we gave up two good assets in RoLo and JG/THj for him.
You can dissect his game all you like, it didn't work, and it isn't going to start to work this year.
You never, ever sign someone in the hopes of trading him. You never ever, EVER sign someone with this injury history with the hopes of trading him.
You explore sign and trades because why not, but is nothing materializes moving on is the no-brainiest of no-brainers.
However, he does not fit here. He might be a better fit someone else for sure.
Our goal is to stink and tank - Rose could help with that- but we also need to develop players and a style of play, a system - and he hurts that.
nyknickzingis wrote:We all know that a team with Rose is not going to win a championship.You can't justify keeping Rose based on who we gave up to get him. I say cut your losses. It was a solid experiment that I supported. It didn't work. We should just move on rather than compound it by keeping Rose longer it making it worse.
But we did give up (Or Phil) THj/Grant (Basically a first round pick) and RoLo.
The way I look at it, Rolo departure helped open the door for Willy. Grant/Hardaway types are a dime a dozen so no huge loss there.
Welpee wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:We all know that a team with Rose is not going to win a championship.You can't justify keeping Rose based on who we gave up to get him. I say cut your losses. It was a solid experiment that I supported. It didn't work. We should just move on rather than compound it by keeping Rose longer it making it worse.
But we did give up (Or Phil) THj/Grant (Basically a first round pick) and RoLo.The way I look at it, Rolo departure helped open the door for Willy. Grant/Hardaway types are a dime a dozen so no huge loss there.
Yeah you guys have convinced me its better he walks.
I was not a fan of his game and I really was bummed at his attitude all season.
Anyway, hope we are able to sign someone with capspace that works out better than Rose. The positive in letting Rose walk (and lose the trade assets you gave for Rose) is you could replace him with free agents that are going to help you run your system better and defend.
Just the FA market is crazy. Won't be easy for us to go sign a two-way free agent at SG, PG or SF (the spots we need most help). Hopefully we spend the $19M Rose leaving opens up, well.
Derrick Rose would like to re-sign with the New York Knicks in free agency.Rose made $21.3 million in the final season of his five-year, $94 million contract extension.
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."
Armstrong insinuated Rose would be willing to take a pay cut.
"In the end, we want to explore everything—if you're going to compete, you clearly need a number of [top] players, so let's figure that out," Armstrong said. "We want the best team possible. That's it. All the other stuff, if the team wins, everyone wins
I say re-sign, this way you can focus on drafting a real pg(oppose to a scoring one), and have rose play more minutes as a SG.
phil wants him back, and dallas is now pushing hard to sign the holiday brothers
It's looking like the New Orleans Pelicans will have some competition this offseason when it comes to re-signing Jrue Holiday.The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as "serious contenders" to sign Holiday and his brother, Justin, according to Sports Illustrated's Jake Fischer.
This is not the first time reports have surfaced linking Dallas with Holiday, who has spent the last four seasons with New Orleans.
In May, ESPN's Ian Begley reported that members of the Mavs organization were interested in the veteran guard as a free agent target.
knicks1248 wrote:So you bitch about every move Phil makes... but you want to resign Rose? Wow.Derrick Rose would like to re-sign with the New York Knicks in free agency.Rose made $21.3 million in the final season of his five-year, $94 million contract extension.
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."
Armstrong insinuated Rose would be willing to take a pay cut.
"In the end, we want to explore everything—if you're going to compete, you clearly need a number of [top] players, so let's figure that out," Armstrong said. "We want the best team possible. That's it. All the other stuff, if the team wins, everyone wins
I say re-sign, this way you can focus on drafting a real pg(oppose to a scoring one), and have rose play more minutes as a SG.
phil wants him back, and dallas is now pushing hard to sign the holiday brothers
It's looking like the New Orleans Pelicans will have some competition this offseason when it comes to re-signing Jrue Holiday.The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as "serious contenders" to sign Holiday and his brother, Justin, according to Sports Illustrated's Jake Fischer.
This is not the first time reports have surfaced linking Dallas with Holiday, who has spent the last four seasons with New Orleans.
In May, ESPN's Ian Begley reported that members of the Mavs organization were interested in the veteran guard as a free agent target.
knicks1248 wrote:Derrick Rose would like to re-sign with the New York Knicks in free agency.Rose made $21.3 million in the final season of his five-year, $94 million contract extension.
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."
Armstrong insinuated Rose would be willing to take a pay cut.
"In the end, we want to explore everything—if you're going to compete, you clearly need a number of [top] players, so let's figure that out," Armstrong said. "We want the best team possible. That's it. All the other stuff, if the team wins, everyone wins
I say re-sign, this way you can focus on drafting a real pg(oppose to a scoring one), and have rose play more minutes as a SG.
phil wants him back, and dallas is now pushing hard to sign the holiday brothers
It's looking like the New Orleans Pelicans will have some competition this offseason when it comes to re-signing Jrue Holiday.The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as "serious contenders" to sign Holiday and his brother, Justin, according to Sports Illustrated's Jake Fischer.
This is not the first time reports have surfaced linking Dallas with Holiday, who has spent the last four seasons with New Orleans.
In May, ESPN's Ian Begley reported that members of the Mavs organization were interested in the veteran guard as a free agent target.
The guy is coming back from yet another knee surgery and as well as he played at times he didn't help us win many more games. Not to mention he had some off the court issues. We should just wipe the slate clean.
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:So you bitch about every move Phil makes... but you want to resign Rose? Wow.Derrick Rose would like to re-sign with the New York Knicks in free agency.Rose made $21.3 million in the final season of his five-year, $94 million contract extension.
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."
Armstrong insinuated Rose would be willing to take a pay cut.
"In the end, we want to explore everything—if you're going to compete, you clearly need a number of [top] players, so let's figure that out," Armstrong said. "We want the best team possible. That's it. All the other stuff, if the team wins, everyone wins
I say re-sign, this way you can focus on drafting a real pg(oppose to a scoring one), and have rose play more minutes as a SG.
phil wants him back, and dallas is now pushing hard to sign the holiday brothers
It's looking like the New Orleans Pelicans will have some competition this offseason when it comes to re-signing Jrue Holiday.The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as "serious contenders" to sign Holiday and his brother, Justin, according to Sports Illustrated's Jake Fischer.
This is not the first time reports have surfaced linking Dallas with Holiday, who has spent the last four seasons with New Orleans.
In May, ESPN's Ian Begley reported that members of the Mavs organization were interested in the veteran guard as a free agent target.
Understand this, I liked every move phil has made, the only problem I ever had with phil, is him forcing the triangle, his stupid tweets, and trying to blame melo on why were losing..
His moves haven't been home runs, they're more like base hits, but he sabotages his own moves by dividing the locker room with rambis and the triangle
knicks1248 wrote:Do I really have to dig out the multiple posts where you say over and over again that Phil's roster is total trash? You have been on this for months.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:So you bitch about every move Phil makes... but you want to resign Rose? Wow.Derrick Rose would like to re-sign with the New York Knicks in free agency.Rose made $21.3 million in the final season of his five-year, $94 million contract extension.
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."
Armstrong insinuated Rose would be willing to take a pay cut.
"In the end, we want to explore everything—if you're going to compete, you clearly need a number of [top] players, so let's figure that out," Armstrong said. "We want the best team possible. That's it. All the other stuff, if the team wins, everyone wins
I say re-sign, this way you can focus on drafting a real pg(oppose to a scoring one), and have rose play more minutes as a SG.
phil wants him back, and dallas is now pushing hard to sign the holiday brothers
It's looking like the New Orleans Pelicans will have some competition this offseason when it comes to re-signing Jrue Holiday.The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as "serious contenders" to sign Holiday and his brother, Justin, according to Sports Illustrated's Jake Fischer.
This is not the first time reports have surfaced linking Dallas with Holiday, who has spent the last four seasons with New Orleans.
In May, ESPN's Ian Begley reported that members of the Mavs organization were interested in the veteran guard as a free agent target.
Understand this, I liked every move phil has made, the only problem I ever had with phil, is him forcing the triangle, his stupid tweets, and trying to blame melo on why were losing..His moves haven't been home runs, they're more like base hits, but he sabotages his own moves by dividing the locker room with rambis and the triangle
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Do I really have to dig out the multiple posts where you say over and over again that Phil's roster is total trash? You have been on this for months.fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:So you bitch about every move Phil makes... but you want to resign Rose? Wow.Derrick Rose would like to re-sign with the New York Knicks in free agency.Rose made $21.3 million in the final season of his five-year, $94 million contract extension.
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."
Armstrong insinuated Rose would be willing to take a pay cut.
"In the end, we want to explore everything—if you're going to compete, you clearly need a number of [top] players, so let's figure that out," Armstrong said. "We want the best team possible. That's it. All the other stuff, if the team wins, everyone wins
I say re-sign, this way you can focus on drafting a real pg(oppose to a scoring one), and have rose play more minutes as a SG.
phil wants him back, and dallas is now pushing hard to sign the holiday brothers
It's looking like the New Orleans Pelicans will have some competition this offseason when it comes to re-signing Jrue Holiday.The Dallas Mavericks have emerged as "serious contenders" to sign Holiday and his brother, Justin, according to Sports Illustrated's Jake Fischer.
This is not the first time reports have surfaced linking Dallas with Holiday, who has spent the last four seasons with New Orleans.
In May, ESPN's Ian Begley reported that members of the Mavs organization were interested in the veteran guard as a free agent target.
Understand this, I liked every move phil has made, the only problem I ever had with phil, is him forcing the triangle, his stupid tweets, and trying to blame melo on why were losing..His moves haven't been home runs, they're more like base hits, but he sabotages his own moves by dividing the locker room with rambis and the triangle
trash in comparison to the results he's looking for..i mean you can't bring in guys like KOQ, dwill, AA, admundson, sasha, noah, and think you gave melo the help he needs, while curry and bron bring in All stars like KD and Love.
All you have to do is look at the prediction threads, and im one of the fools that predicted 45 to 50 wins for the last 2 seasons