Knicks · The Triangle won't get us to the playoffs.You will need 4 unselfish super or close to super stars (page 1)
Why are we messing with the triangle? Phil Jackson will be gone in 2 years and we will be no closer to making it to the second round in the playpffs. With Melo we have a star. An old star but still a star. With Rose we have a star but a selfish star that wont fit. 4 super stars that can play together is the only way we can succeed. The triangle won't work because every team will be waiting for us. We will need dead eye 3 point shooters and defenders in order to win games. Phil Jackson is living in the past. The triangle was good in the 90s but not the way the game is played today. We need super stars. four of them just to get to the second round and when we have that Phil will be long gone. We need to pick the best players point blank. and not pick on how they can play the triangle. 1. A point guard who can get to the basket and also shoot 3s and the rest of the starting line up must be able to knock down 3s at a high percentage.
Nobody is getting into the finals the next few years without having a minimum of 3 superstars.... it's not the triangle. You said all that yourself. Were not trying to win next year... Were not trying to win the year after that... so save me the bullshit.
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysWhy are we messing with the triangle? Phil Jackson will be gone in 2 years and we will be no closer to making it to the second round in the playpffs. With Melo we have a star. An old star but still a star. With Rose we have a star but a selfish star that wont fit. 4 super stars that can play together is the only way we can succeed. The triangle won't work because every team will be waiting for us. We will need dead eye 3 point shooters and defenders in order to win games. Phil Jackson is living in the past. The triangle was good in the 90s but not the way the game is played today. We need super stars. four of them just to get to the second round and when we have that Phil will be long gone. We need to pick the best players point blank. and not pick on how they can play the triangle. 1. A point guard who can get to the basket and also shoot 3s and the rest of the starting line up must be able to knock down 3s at a high percentage.
It doesn't matter if the triangle can work or not, but the point is Phil is probably gone in 2 years - maybe 1. So why force feed it on the organization?
I understand the desire for building a system- just look at Golden State- even before they won, they looked great and played exciting team ball.
But Dallas, MDA, Kerr- all run systems. Help Hornacek to do that, on his own, in his own way. Not force him to run the triangle.
I also worry that the emphasis on the triangle may cost us talent in the draft.
Phil as GM hasn't proven anything, except that he can win 30 games and wildly misjudge talent. Remember he thought we were going to be competitive with Fisher that first year.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeet, why didn't you send Phil a text message to do that instead?
fwk00 wrote:So *THAT'S* all we need - 4 or five superstars AND get rid of the Triangle that would confuse those 5 or 6 superstars from winning?Sheeeeeeeeeeeet, why didn't you send Phil a text message to do that instead?
Yeah, he really needs that memo lol What, that's one or two more stars than he was used to having with the Bulls or Lakers? The years of substance experimentation have killed his ability to count. Good things he has posters like us to point those things out to him. He's probably to old and crippled to turn on remote. He probably still relies on cable to watch games. Someone should tell that's not Bill Clinton in the White House and that he doesn't need scouts anymore. He can do it all at his nursing home using YouTube and DraftX.
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysI have the same question. It seems to repel potential free agents, existing players don't want to play it, the coach doesn't want to run it, and it limits the team because you have to find "triangle players."Why are we messing with the triangle? Phil Jackson will be gone in 2 years and we will be no closer to making it to the second round in the playpffs. With Melo we have a star. An old star but still a star. With Rose we have a star but a selfish star that wont fit. 4 super stars that can play together is the only way we can succeed. The triangle won't work because every team will be waiting for us. We will need dead eye 3 point shooters and defenders in order to win games. Phil Jackson is living in the past. The triangle was good in the 90s but not the way the game is played today. We need super stars. four of them just to get to the second round and when we have that Phil will be long gone. We need to pick the best players point blank. and not pick on how they can play the triangle. 1. A point guard who can get to the basket and also shoot 3s and the rest of the starting line up must be able to knock down 3s at a high percentage.
Jackson needs to man up and just acquire the best talent, develop a system to maximize their skills and let the chips fall where they may. This force feeding the triangle is nothing more than pacifying Phil's ego in an attempt to validate his precious offensive system.
Welpee wrote:Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysI have the same question. It seems to repel potential free agents, existing players don't want to play it, the coach doesn't want to run it, and it limits the team because you have to find "triangle players."Why are we messing with the triangle? Phil Jackson will be gone in 2 years and we will be no closer to making it to the second round in the playpffs. With Melo we have a star. An old star but still a star. With Rose we have a star but a selfish star that wont fit. 4 super stars that can play together is the only way we can succeed. The triangle won't work because every team will be waiting for us. We will need dead eye 3 point shooters and defenders in order to win games. Phil Jackson is living in the past. The triangle was good in the 90s but not the way the game is played today. We need super stars. four of them just to get to the second round and when we have that Phil will be long gone. We need to pick the best players point blank. and not pick on how they can play the triangle. 1. A point guard who can get to the basket and also shoot 3s and the rest of the starting line up must be able to knock down 3s at a high percentage.
Jackson needs to man up and just acquire the best talent, develop a system to maximize their skills and let the chips fall where they may. This force feeding the triangle is nothing more than pacifying Phil's ego in an attempt to validate his precious offensive system.
The only people out-of-touch are those who still think free-agency isn't heavily weighed in favor of the home team. Nobody worth having is leaving home without a bus ticket.
Phil can throw darts til he's a hundred years old and that won't change a thing.
If Curry was asked to run the offense the way Nash had to. He would be good but he wouldn't be as good as the Curry we see today.
He is more of a combo guard that makes good decisions than a true PG. AKA Triangle PG. And because he is combo guard who makes good decisions it opens up the offense as its way too versatile. Rather then having Curry be the one trying to create the offense for a bunch of 3 and D guys. They acquired a bunch of multifaceted players like Klay(Shooter who makes smart decisions), Iggy(utility point forward), Draymond(utility point forward) and let them all play their games of creating easy buckets for each other with player and ball movement. Which are the same principals of the triangle.
And this is the reason why Durant left OKC for the Warriors. He was in love with there style of play. 4 guys that just create for each other.
And its the same principals that should apply to our drafts and moves under the triangle. Acquire as many multifacted team players as possible. And allow them to elevate each other.
fwk00 wrote:Free agency is heavily weighted to good teams. Good teams are more likely to get new free agents and keep their own.Welpee wrote:Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysI have the same question. It seems to repel potential free agents, existing players don't want to play it, the coach doesn't want to run it, and it limits the team because you have to find "triangle players."Why are we messing with the triangle? Phil Jackson will be gone in 2 years and we will be no closer to making it to the second round in the playpffs. With Melo we have a star. An old star but still a star. With Rose we have a star but a selfish star that wont fit. 4 super stars that can play together is the only way we can succeed. The triangle won't work because every team will be waiting for us. We will need dead eye 3 point shooters and defenders in order to win games. Phil Jackson is living in the past. The triangle was good in the 90s but not the way the game is played today. We need super stars. four of them just to get to the second round and when we have that Phil will be long gone. We need to pick the best players point blank. and not pick on how they can play the triangle. 1. A point guard who can get to the basket and also shoot 3s and the rest of the starting line up must be able to knock down 3s at a high percentage.
Jackson needs to man up and just acquire the best talent, develop a system to maximize their skills and let the chips fall where they may. This force feeding the triangle is nothing more than pacifying Phil's ego in an attempt to validate his precious offensive system.
The only people out-of-touch are those who still think free-agency isn't heavily weighed in favor of the home team. Nobody worth having is leaving home without a bus ticket.
Phil can throw darts til he's a hundred years old and that won't change a thing.
Gudris wrote:If KP starts to play like an all start this year, we should be ok, it will help a lot to attract free agents in future
Not necessarily. Free agency is NOT what it used to be. There will always be exceptions but trades and the draft are the tools of today.
Jeff has tweaked the Triangle more in the direction of how the Warriors play. Using more Spread PnR/Drag Screens early in the possession. Less stagnant Side Triangle action and keeping things moving! The players EXECUTION matters more than anything. If you have talent and they refuse to buy in then it's gonna look bad.
nixluva wrote:I must insist that people stop referencing the Triangle as if it's one thing. It's NEVER been just one thing. It's dependent on the TALENT that you have and what they can do out of the offense. Basically there's not as much difference from what the Warriors run and the Triangle. TONS of Dribble Hand Off actions, Cuts and Down Screens. Constant Motion!Players don't "refuse to buy-in" out the blue for no reason.Jeff has tweaked the Triangle more in the direction of how the Warriors play. Using more Spread PnR/Drag Screens early in the possession. Less stagnant Side Triangle action and keeping things moving! The players EXECUTION matters more than anything. If you have talent and they refuse to buy in then it's gonna look bad.
Can anyone tell me why the Lakers never gave Phil full control? I mean the owners daughter was his better half and he won all those championships. Was it his ego, stubbornness, inability to see the future of the NBA or his lack of experience? Dolan's hose job on fans with yet another starphuck name to deflect his inability to manage the franchise has so many fooled.
Welpee wrote:nixluva wrote:I must insist that people stop referencing the Triangle as if it's one thing. It's NEVER been just one thing. It's dependent on the TALENT that you have and what they can do out of the offense. Basically there's not as much difference from what the Warriors run and the Triangle. TONS of Dribble Hand Off actions, Cuts and Down Screens. Constant Motion!Players don't "refuse to buy-in" out the blue for no reason.Jeff has tweaked the Triangle more in the direction of how the Warriors play. Using more Spread PnR/Drag Screens early in the possession. Less stagnant Side Triangle action and keeping things moving! The players EXECUTION matters more than anything. If you have talent and they refuse to buy in then it's gonna look bad.
ASSHOLE PLAYERS DO!!! Players that refuse to buy in won't be on this team. The Knicks will be adding young players that will buy and have the skills and talent to excel in the offense!
HofstraBBall wrote:Two years will go by and we would have wasted 5 years with the Triangle. Defenders will claim it was all worth it. And Phil will be pushing it as the best system ever from the range in Montana.Can anyone tell me why the Lakers never gave Phil full control? I mean the owners daughter was his better half and he won all those championships. Was it his ego, stubbornness, inability to see the future of the NBA or his lack of experience? Dolan's hose job on fans with yet another starphuck name to deflect his inability to manage the franchise has so many fooled.
The more you talk the more clearly you prove a lack of perspective. The Triangle wasn't the problem. The PLAYERS were the problem. Lack of BUY IN. Lack of effort on defense. RESISTANT attitudes.
Now Phil can build with talent that has the right attitude, dedication to winning and playing as a team. So no this will not be a waste of time!
nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Two years will go by and we would have wasted 5 years with the Triangle. Defenders will claim it was all worth it. And Phil will be pushing it as the best system ever from the range in Montana.Can anyone tell me why the Lakers never gave Phil full control? I mean the owners daughter was his better half and he won all those championships. Was it his ego, stubbornness, inability to see the future of the NBA or his lack of experience? Dolan's hose job on fans with yet another starphuck name to deflect his inability to manage the franchise has so many fooled.
The more you talk the more clearly you prove a lack of perspective. The Triangle wasn't the problem. The PLAYERS were the problem. Lack of BUY IN. Lack of effort on defense. RESISTANT attitudes.
Now Phil can build with talent that has the right attitude, dedication to winning and playing as a team. So no this will not be a waste of time!
Have to agree with Nix.
Triangle is a tool to make players understand structured basketball and at the same time a test on player intelligence and commitment.
Great players are not piping out like clones from the chambers, they became great when playing in great systems under great coaches in steadily run organizations.
Phil already created 2 factories of stars in the past... Why not to trust him with this another time?
newyorknewyork wrote:Steph, Klay, Iggy and Draymond weren't superstars when Warriors acquired them. . What Warriors did was add a bunch of multifaceted team players.If Curry was asked to run the offense the way Nash had to. He would be good but he wouldn't be as good as the Curry we see today.
He is more of a combo guard that makes good decisions than a true PG. AKA Triangle PG. And because he is combo guard who makes good decisions it opens up the offense as its way too versatile. Rather then having Curry be the one trying to create the offense for a bunch of 3 and D guys. They acquired a bunch of multifaceted players like Klay(Shooter who makes smart decisions), Iggy(utility point forward), Draymond(utility point forward) and let them all play their games of creating easy buckets for each other with player and ball movement. Which are the same principals of the triangle.And this is the reason why Durant left OKC for the Warriors. He was in love with there style of play. 4 guys that just create for each other.
And its the same principals that should apply to our drafts and moves under the triangle. Acquire as many multifacted team players as possible. And allow them to elevate each other.
I agree with most of this post but Iggy was a star. He would have been a much better fit next to Stat or Melo than the other. Steph was the 7th pick in the draft. Hard to forget that. Kay was a lottery pick as well. Green was a second round steal.
nixluva wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Two years will go by and we would have wasted 5 years with the Triangle. Defenders will claim it was all worth it. And Phil will be pushing it as the best system ever from the range in Montana.Can anyone tell me why the Lakers never gave Phil full control? I mean the owners daughter was his better half and he won all those championships. Was it his ego, stubbornness, inability to see the future of the NBA or his lack of experience? Dolan's hose job on fans with yet another starphuck name to deflect his inability to manage the franchise has so many fooled.
The more you talk the more clearly you prove a lack of perspective. The Triangle wasn't the problem. The PLAYERS were the problem. Lack of BUY IN. Lack of effort on defense. RESISTANT attitudes.
Now Phil can build with talent that has the right attitude, dedication to winning and playing as a team. So no this will not be a waste of time!
A couple of things. The triangle emphasizes mid range shots and Phil calls three pointers cheap points. That is a bit alarming. Also, Rambis has a horrible record as a head coach and struggles with having any kind of a rapport with players. He is great at getting guys to opt out if they have a player option but the better alternative would be to not give out bad contracts. Taking the legs out from the coach and going all rigid guy/antiquated offense with Phil/Rambis might have something to do with lack of buy in.
Have you ever wondered why guys with 'the right atttude' ... etc. for Phil/Rambis are all fringe undrafted guys that hope they can find away to stay in the nba for a season or two?