Knicks · KP Posted this on instagram today (page 4)

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen a team exec with such an abysmal record, with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen an team exec with such an abysmal record with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

Don't worry, I read on here somewhere that this 5 year, $60 million contract is really just a training class for Phil's next gig as the greatest 80 year old NBA exec. Results and cost don't matter! It's all part of the plan.

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen an team exec with such an abysmal record with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

Don't worry, I read on here somewhere that this 5 year, $60 million contract is really just a training class for Phil's next gig as the greatest 80 year old NBA exec. Results and cost don't matter! It's all part of the plan.

Wouldn't surprise me at this point, lol. If it was someone else these last 3 years, some nameless exec, another Mills, I doubt people would be so patient.

fwk00 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Uptown wrote:There was a report that quoted KP's bro, Janis saying that, 'despite the way management treats its players, Kris wants to stay in NY'.

Saw the quote and really its bad for everyone. Bad for the Knicks for the reasons you stated, but also bad for KP because it makes him look silly. He blew off the chance to address some of the concerns he had, and statements like that from his brother only make it worse. If KP doesn't want the drama why not put something out there that indicates he is trying to resolve the rift (if there is one) instead of making more of the situation.

I agree that is bad on both sides, but its worse on managements side. Again, rightly or wrongly, the running narrative on the Knicks organization is that of dysfunction. Its one thing when the media says it from the outside, but to have one of your players, from the inside, confirm that there is dysfunction makes it worse. A player who is supposed to be the future face of the organization, no less. This is really bad!

I can't find a single article without the word dysfunction and a complete mess when speaking of the knicks, and that's exactly how it was during the dark days of Isaiah. It's like phil doesn't really care about how he treats players, and how it looks from the outside.

It's SAD, and REALLY BAD

How are the players being mistreated?
Phil gave a long interview, said nice things about melo, then said he holds the ball too long.
Said Melo should leave if he wants to win. Shamed him into saying he wants to win? Oh dear!!!
Rose mistreated?
KP told to stop shooting bail out threes? Oh My God!!
Jennings?
KP rested a few games at the end?

What is the dysfunction this season that is so wrong?

The dysfunction is documented and has been disgust here ad nauseum...Regardless, of what you believe, my point was about the perception of this franchise as being a joke and dysfunctional. You can try to explain it all you want, but when KP's brother who has more insight than any of us says that KP wants to 'remain despite the way management treats its players', there has to be something to that statement. You want to know how the players are being mistreated? Ask Janis and KP!

The "something" to that statement by Porgy's brother is that his brother would be running a fruit stand at a street market in Latvia if he wasn't living off the coat-tails of his brother. He's in over his head and it doesn't matter much because his head above water isn't worth its salt anyway.

In your opinion, has phil done anything wrong or that could be perceived as dysfunctional from the outside looking in?

fwk00 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Uptown wrote:There was a report that quoted KP's bro, Janis saying that, 'despite the way management treats its players, Kris wants to stay in NY'.

Saw the quote and really its bad for everyone. Bad for the Knicks for the reasons you stated, but also bad for KP because it makes him look silly. He blew off the chance to address some of the concerns he had, and statements like that from his brother only make it worse. If KP doesn't want the drama why not put something out there that indicates he is trying to resolve the rift (if there is one) instead of making more of the situation.

I agree that is bad on both sides, but its worse on managements side. Again, rightly or wrongly, the running narrative on the Knicks organization is that of dysfunction. Its one thing when the media says it from the outside, but to have one of your players, from the inside, confirm that there is dysfunction makes it worse. A player who is supposed to be the future face of the organization, no less. This is really bad!

I can't find a single article without the word dysfunction and a complete mess when speaking of the knicks, and that's exactly how it was during the dark days of Isaiah. It's like phil doesn't really care about how he treats players, and how it looks from the outside.

It's SAD, and REALLY BAD

How are the players being mistreated?
Phil gave a long interview, said nice things about melo, then said he holds the ball too long.
Said Melo should leave if he wants to win. Shamed him into saying he wants to win? Oh dear!!!
Rose mistreated?
KP told to stop shooting bail out threes? Oh My God!!
Jennings?
KP rested a few games at the end?

What is the dysfunction this season that is so wrong?

The dysfunction is documented and has been disgust here ad nauseum...Regardless, of what you believe, my point was about the perception of this franchise as being a joke and dysfunctional. You can try to explain it all you want, but when KP's brother who has more insight than any of us says that KP wants to 'remain despite the way management treats its players', there has to be something to that statement. You want to know how the players are being mistreated? Ask Janis and KP!

The "something" to that statement by Porgy's brother is that his brother would be running a fruit stand at a street market in Latvia if he wasn't living off the coat-tails of his brother. He's in over his head and it doesn't matter much because his head above water isn't worth its salt anyway.

Also, his brother would have more insight than anyone on this board...

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen a team exec with such an abysmal record, with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

We are, I believe, 80-166 since phil took over. The scary part about that record is, we were not in a full rebuild mode during any point in his 3 yrs here. That record was acquired with a roster he put together thinking we could make the playoffs!!! And this is the man we trust with out roster moving forward?!

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen a team exec with such an abysmal record, with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

We are, I believe, 80-166 since phil took over. The scary part about that record is, we were not in a full rebuild mode during any point in his 3 yrs here. That record was acquired with a roster he put together thinking we could make the playoffs!!! And this is the man we trust with out roster moving forward?!

We got real close before Phil got Rose and Noah. Talk about throwing a wrench in the works. I thought Phil had the frontcourt set with KP/Lopez and Willy(eventually). We had draft picks in the pipeline, but Phil went all in with broken down vets to make a run at the playoffs. Really thought we were past those days.

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen a team exec with such an abysmal record, with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

We are, I believe, 80-166 since phil took over. The scary part about that record is, we were not in a full rebuild mode during any point in his 3 yrs here. That record was acquired with a roster he put together thinking we could make the playoffs!!! And this is the man we trust with out roster moving forward?!

It's Zen-triangular-based rebuilding. Act like you're trying to make the playoffs while ending up in the lottery every year. "My Life in Stealth Hinkie-ism; Otherwise Entitled It Was All That Damned Melo's Fault".

I smell a book deal in a few years...

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen a team exec with such an abysmal record, with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

We are, I believe, 80-166 since phil took over. The scary part about that record is, we were not in a full rebuild mode during any point in his 3 yrs here. That record was acquired with a roster he put together thinking we could make the playoffs!!! And this is the man we trust with out roster moving forward?!

It's Zen-triangular-based rebuilding. Act like you're trying to make the playoffs while ending up in the lottery every year. "My Life in Stealth Hinkie-ism; Otherwise Entitled It Was All That Damned Melo's Fault".

I smell a book deal in a few years...

They're praising Hinkie now, but even money he would still be tanking if he hadn't been fired.

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen a team exec with such an abysmal record, with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

We are, I believe, 80-166 since phil took over. The scary part about that record is, we were not in a full rebuild mode during any point in his 3 yrs here. That record was acquired with a roster he put together thinking we could make the playoffs!!! And this is the man we trust with out roster moving forward?!

We got real close before Phil got Rose and Noah. Talk about throwing a wrench in the works. I thought Phil had the frontcourt set with KP/Lopez and Willy(eventually). We had draft picks in the pipeline, but Phil went all in with broken down vets to make a run at the playoffs. Really thought we were past those days.

That's the change the process every 6 months plan phil been on....

In philly, they Trust the Process
In NY, we Change the Process

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen an team exec with such an abysmal record with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

Don't worry, I read on here somewhere that this 5 year, $60 million contract is really just a training class for Phil's next gig as the greatest 80 year old NBA exec. Results and cost don't matter! It's all part of the plan.

Wouldn't surprise me at this point, lol. If it was someone else these last 3 years, some nameless exec, another Mills, I doubt people would be so patient.

Correct we wouldn't be patient. But Phil gets (and deserves) patience because it's simply foolish to deny he knows basketball. Having said that, there are many legitimate criticisms against him; some well-stated and some just whiny rants from whiny-retarded trolls. He might have a great (meta)plan but poor execution (think Idzik and stockpiling picks and drafting horribly)

Personally I think his weakness is at trades and at GM-type things like negotiating and contracts.

But I also think he's on the money in wanting system basketball and a team that develops players into that system; also wanting an ecosystem. I also think he's been great (or at least lucky) in drafting -- J. Grant being an exception but expecting 100% hit rate is foolish. It's also been many times stated how he has been handicapped with a lack of draft picks -- the one thing he has been good (or lucky at). Building a team with FAs is (a) not his strong suit and (b) under the CBA foolish as there are no "deals" unless you're already a great team so you further handicap your collection of talent by overpaying to come to a bad team

I think the "when" question is legitimate and also tough. Losing is frustrating; winning consistently is very hard

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen a team exec with such an abysmal record, with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

Two.

Uptown wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Uptown wrote:There was a report that quoted KP's bro, Janis saying that, 'despite the way management treats its players, Kris wants to stay in NY'.

Saw the quote and really its bad for everyone. Bad for the Knicks for the reasons you stated, but also bad for KP because it makes him look silly. He blew off the chance to address some of the concerns he had, and statements like that from his brother only make it worse. If KP doesn't want the drama why not put something out there that indicates he is trying to resolve the rift (if there is one) instead of making more of the situation.

I agree that is bad on both sides, but its worse on managements side. Again, rightly or wrongly, the running narrative on the Knicks organization is that of dysfunction. Its one thing when the media says it from the outside, but to have one of your players, from the inside, confirm that there is dysfunction makes it worse. A player who is supposed to be the future face of the organization, no less. This is really bad!

I can't find a single article without the word dysfunction and a complete mess when speaking of the knicks, and that's exactly how it was during the dark days of Isaiah. It's like phil doesn't really care about how he treats players, and how it looks from the outside.

It's SAD, and REALLY BAD

How are the players being mistreated?
Phil gave a long interview, said nice things about melo, then said he holds the ball too long.
Said Melo should leave if he wants to win. Shamed him into saying he wants to win? Oh dear!!!
Rose mistreated?
KP told to stop shooting bail out threes? Oh My God!!
Jennings?
KP rested a few games at the end?

What is the dysfunction this season that is so wrong?

The dysfunction is documented and has been disgust here ad nauseum...Regardless, of what you believe, my point was about the perception of this franchise as being a joke and dysfunctional. You can try to explain it all you want, but when KP's brother who has more insight than any of us says that KP wants to 'remain despite the way management treats its players', there has to be something to that statement. You want to know how the players are being mistreated? Ask Janis and KP!

The "something" to that statement by Porgy's brother is that his brother would be running a fruit stand at a street market in Latvia if he wasn't living off the coat-tails of his brother. He's in over his head and it doesn't matter much because his head above water isn't worth its salt anyway.

In your opinion, has phil done anything wrong or that could be perceived as dysfunctional from the outside looking in?

Look Phil is paid to run and create an organization that makes money, that runs within fiscal reason and that fields the best teams possible within the rules of the larger game.

Phil is doing that.

But that's not whatr you're complaining about. You want the Knicks run like a fan democracy. Phil would have to show everything that's going on all the time to satisfy people like you.

Think about it.

fwk00 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Uptown wrote:There was a report that quoted KP's bro, Janis saying that, 'despite the way management treats its players, Kris wants to stay in NY'.

Saw the quote and really its bad for everyone. Bad for the Knicks for the reasons you stated, but also bad for KP because it makes him look silly. He blew off the chance to address some of the concerns he had, and statements like that from his brother only make it worse. If KP doesn't want the drama why not put something out there that indicates he is trying to resolve the rift (if there is one) instead of making more of the situation.

I agree that is bad on both sides, but its worse on managements side. Again, rightly or wrongly, the running narrative on the Knicks organization is that of dysfunction. Its one thing when the media says it from the outside, but to have one of your players, from the inside, confirm that there is dysfunction makes it worse. A player who is supposed to be the future face of the organization, no less. This is really bad!

I can't find a single article without the word dysfunction and a complete mess when speaking of the knicks, and that's exactly how it was during the dark days of Isaiah. It's like phil doesn't really care about how he treats players, and how it looks from the outside.

It's SAD, and REALLY BAD

How are the players being mistreated?
Phil gave a long interview, said nice things about melo, then said he holds the ball too long.
Said Melo should leave if he wants to win. Shamed him into saying he wants to win? Oh dear!!!
Rose mistreated?
KP told to stop shooting bail out threes? Oh My God!!
Jennings?
KP rested a few games at the end?

What is the dysfunction this season that is so wrong?

The dysfunction is documented and has been disgust here ad nauseum...Regardless, of what you believe, my point was about the perception of this franchise as being a joke and dysfunctional. You can try to explain it all you want, but when KP's brother who has more insight than any of us says that KP wants to 'remain despite the way management treats its players', there has to be something to that statement. You want to know how the players are being mistreated? Ask Janis and KP!

The "something" to that statement by Porgy's brother is that his brother would be running a fruit stand at a street market in Latvia if he wasn't living off the coat-tails of his brother. He's in over his head and it doesn't matter much because his head above water isn't worth its salt anyway.

In your opinion, has phil done anything wrong or that could be perceived as dysfunctional from the outside looking in?

Look Phil is paid to run and create an organization that makes money, that runs within fiscal reason and that fields the best teams possible within the rules of the larger game.

Phil is doing that.

But that's not whatr you're complaining about. You want the Knicks run like a fan democracy. Phil would have to show everything that's going on all the time to satisfy people like you.

Think about it.

Thanks for evading the question...

fwk00 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Uptown wrote:There was a report that quoted KP's bro, Janis saying that, 'despite the way management treats its players, Kris wants to stay in NY'.

Saw the quote and really its bad for everyone. Bad for the Knicks for the reasons you stated, but also bad for KP because it makes him look silly. He blew off the chance to address some of the concerns he had, and statements like that from his brother only make it worse. If KP doesn't want the drama why not put something out there that indicates he is trying to resolve the rift (if there is one) instead of making more of the situation.

I agree that is bad on both sides, but its worse on managements side. Again, rightly or wrongly, the running narrative on the Knicks organization is that of dysfunction. Its one thing when the media says it from the outside, but to have one of your players, from the inside, confirm that there is dysfunction makes it worse. A player who is supposed to be the future face of the organization, no less. This is really bad!

I can't find a single article without the word dysfunction and a complete mess when speaking of the knicks, and that's exactly how it was during the dark days of Isaiah. It's like phil doesn't really care about how he treats players, and how it looks from the outside.

It's SAD, and REALLY BAD

How are the players being mistreated?
Phil gave a long interview, said nice things about melo, then said he holds the ball too long.
Said Melo should leave if he wants to win. Shamed him into saying he wants to win? Oh dear!!!
Rose mistreated?
KP told to stop shooting bail out threes? Oh My God!!
Jennings?
KP rested a few games at the end?

What is the dysfunction this season that is so wrong?

The dysfunction is documented and has been disgust here ad nauseum...Regardless, of what you believe, my point was about the perception of this franchise as being a joke and dysfunctional. You can try to explain it all you want, but when KP's brother who has more insight than any of us says that KP wants to 'remain despite the way management treats its players', there has to be something to that statement. You want to know how the players are being mistreated? Ask Janis and KP!

The "something" to that statement by Porgy's brother is that his brother would be running a fruit stand at a street market in Latvia if he wasn't living off the coat-tails of his brother. He's in over his head and it doesn't matter much because his head above water isn't worth its salt anyway.

In your opinion, has phil done anything wrong or that could be perceived as dysfunctional from the outside looking in?

Look Phil is paid to run and create an organization that makes money, that runs within fiscal reason and that fields the best teams possible within the rules of the larger game.

Phil is doing that.

But that's not whatr you're complaining about. You want the Knicks run like a fan democracy. Phil would have to show everything that's going on all the time to satisfy people like you.

Think about it.

the damn franchise is label dysfunctional, by anyone with a ounce of basketball knowledge.

losing record, worse in franchise history
pissed off players vets and youngster
revolving door of players and coaches
horrible trades that made us worse
more bad FA signings then good

phil is doing a horrible job, and you don't need any sports news reporter to inform you of that

KP was really the only good thing, and he basically treated phil and his staff like a bunch of fck boys.

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:How many more years of losing, of being one of the worst teams in the league since Phil took over, does it actually become Team President Phil Jackson's fault for the results?

Im asking this because it seems like we could go another 3-4 years of losing and some folks will still be blaming everyone but Phil for the results.

Never seen an team exec with such an abysmal record with an almost religious following. What will make you want to cut bait with Phil as team president? Would really like to know.

Don't worry, I read on here somewhere that this 5 year, $60 million contract is really just a training class for Phil's next gig as the greatest 80 year old NBA exec. Results and cost don't matter! It's all part of the plan.

Wouldn't surprise me at this point, lol. If it was someone else these last 3 years, some nameless exec, another Mills, I doubt people would be so patient.

Correct we wouldn't be patient. But Phil gets (and deserves) patience because it's simply foolish to deny he knows basketball. Having said that, there are many legitimate criticisms against him; some well-stated and some just whiny rants from whiny-retarded trolls. He might have a great (meta)plan but poor execution (think Idzik and stockpiling picks and drafting horribly)

Personally I think his weakness is at trades and at GM-type things like negotiating and contracts.

But I also think he's on the money in wanting system basketball and a team that develops players into that system; also wanting an ecosystem. I also think he's been great (or at least lucky) in drafting -- J. Grant being an exception but expecting 100% hit rate is foolish. It's also been many times stated how he has been handicapped with a lack of draft picks -- the one thing he has been good (or lucky at). Building a team with FAs is (a) not his strong suit and (b) under the CBA foolish as there are no "deals" unless you're already a great team so you further handicap your collection of talent by overpaying to come to a bad team

I think the "when" question is legitimate and also tough. Losing is frustrating; winning consistently is very hard

Being knowledgeable about basketball doesn't necessarily make you a good front office executive. Its essential of course, but there are other qualities needed to be a good exec and Phil is having a hard time showing them.

In Phil's case you would think that a coach who managed so many legendary egos, balanced his vision of the Bulls/Lakers with that of the front office, would have been able to do a better job managing egos, and focusing mostly on his front office duties.

His GM was such a company man that he signed Chris Smith to a contract just because he was JR's brother and nothing else. He was the guy that forgot to pull Shumpert before the trade with Phoenix before Shump got hurt. Phil said in the press conference that Mills "does the paperwork". Emphasized that its his call.

When you have a GM who is a company man and little else, you aren't going to get the best advice. Phil should be remaking the front office in his image, not the offense. That should be the coaches job. He should make every player feel like he has their back. Why? because its a player's league.

There have been former championship players, coaches, who have successfully made the transition to the front office and have won rings. Looking at how they did it, its not hard to see that Phil for some reason doesn't feel he has anything to learn from them. If he did I believe we would be seeing it.

I was all in for a rebuilding project, but as Uptown pointed out we really havent commited to one yet. Lots of rookies last year played which was great, but thats because the older starters broke down. Will they be replaced with more broken down vets or will Phil allow the cream to rise to the top? That would show a bias towards rebuilding.