Knicks · What if Phil cuts Melo? (page 1)
We already know it was an epic mistake. The question is best to move on from it.
It comes down to a bunch of questions we dont have the facts on:
Why did Melo stink last year? Was it simply the divorce and personal stuff at home? That could do it. Was there a clear fall out with Phil? Something that cant be mended?
What is Melo's relationship with Jeff? Can the coach get him out there and helping us? Or Melo going to do it his way and not worry about what dummies like Hornecek or Phil think or do?
I just dont know what Phil, Jeff or Melo's actualy mindset is. Does anyone? Maybe Melo needed to hear Phil publicly say "we think you should move on" to light a fire under his ass. Maybe Melo is done and just wants to take his shots and play call in the big apple.
Its easy to dump it all on one side, but its rarely that easy. I dont think Melo is as bad as he was last year, but I have no idea what is between his ears.
Whats amazing is we could very well have exactly the same team as last year.
I would have let Melo walk when he was last a FA - I thought we needed to rebuild.
Keeping him, as he was an asset, made sense.
Giving him a NTC when no one in the league really has one was just plain stupid.
I get that Melo doesn't fit what we're trying to do - a proper rebuild.
However, he has a NTC, has value and can contribute in some way - e.g., off the bench.
If he doesn't play "the right way", then sit him.
I know this is not ideal, but the idea of buying Melo out is just too much to consider...
I hope Phil waits a season at this point where Melo's contract will be easier to move with one less year on it. Would also give Phil a chance to work things out with Melo, if anything to show the rest of the league that Phil isn't the hard case he's portrayed as being in the media, fairly or unfairly. Would help attract players IMO.
Melo will not generate any more revenue in NY.
MSG squeezed from him all they can so did Melo.
NBA is business so using stretch provision on Melo is inevitable so is his signing with Cavs.
Makes too much sense.
What do we know?
Melo is still your first or second option on this team, as currently constructed. No one else is even close.
Melo has stated he wants to stay. When it's documented that no one else, outside of starry-eyed 18 year-old euro phenoms, a few other draftees, and Rose want to be here.
The unicorn is showing some recent immaturity. Who's fault this actually is can be up for grabs.
The other two cap drags are $55 mil Noah (was even more fragile than advertised) and $36 mil Lee (has nowhere near the D as advertised).
Now if we were in Philadelphia, which we aren't, paying your max player (even a declining one) to go somewhere else to live long and prosper so that your constituency can sit and watch 8 months of an overpaid center's coach sit the bench/a bunch of kids mostly running around, mostly shooting bricks and getting blown out alot, would be all fine and just part of the 5-10-15 year "process".
I don't think it plays here.
Giving a player a Max contract and an NTC and then helping in a big way to make him an unmarketable asset that you have to pay to leave has to be an epic mistake. Not that people around here get fired for those (which is why I'm not voting), but it's not addition by subtraction. It's subtraction by arrogant stupidity. IMHO, we should be getting just a bit more than that for a million a month. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I really can't imagine Hinkie cost that much to buy lottery tickets.
With Melo, for me, the only move that is wrong is letting Melo play come opening night. He has no more room on this team now that its officially rebuild mode.
meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.
If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.
He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.
jrodmc wrote:What if [insert Prez name] cuts [insert Max Player with $53 million left on contract]?What do we know?
Melo is still your first or second option on this team, as currently constructed. No one else is even close.
Melo has stated he wants to stay. When it's documented that no one else, outside of starry-eyed 18 year-old euro phenoms, a few other draftees, and Rose want to be here.
The unicorn is showing some recent immaturity. Who's fault this actually is can be up for grabs.
The other two cap drags are $55 mil Noah (was even more fragile than advertised) and $36 mil Lee (has nowhere near the D as advertised).Now if we were in Philadelphia, which we aren't, paying your max player (even a declining one) to go somewhere else to live long and prosper so that your constituency can sit and watch 8 months of an overpaid center's coach sit the bench/a bunch of kids mostly running around, mostly shooting bricks and getting blown out alot, would be all fine and just part of the 5-10-15 year "process".
I don't think it plays here.
Giving a player a Max contract and an NTC and then helping in a big way to make him an unmarketable asset that you have to pay to leave has to be an epic mistake. Not that people around here get fired for those (which is why I'm not voting), but it's not addition by subtraction. It's subtraction by arrogant stupidity. IMHO, we should be getting just a bit more than that for a million a month. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I really can't imagine Hinkie cost that much to buy lottery tickets.
Lets pretend for a second that Melo is a productive player who helps the culture of the team. He's not THAT good to even make us top 6 in the weak east.
Are the Knicks good enough to be a top 6 team in the east even if everything goes right?
No.
Then why play Melo? Playing Melo and winning a game here and there because of him impedes the Knicks longer term.
It stops the younger Knicks and coaches from figuring out how to win on their own. It stops the Knicks from getting a higher draft pick coming up. It stops the Knicks from even playing their game plan because Melo doesn't friggin listen to the coaches.
Both Melo and Phil hoped things would of went different a few years ago when the contract was signed. The Knicks took a different direction. Now both parties need to be adults and come to terms with where we are. In our current situation it makes no sense to keep trying to snag a 7th or 8th seed which is the best we could do, win wise. That's not good for Melo's legacy nor is it healthy for the Knicks longer term success.
People, this is what Phil was brought in to do. Instill a culture, not win yesterday, today or even tomorrow.
We're building through personalities first. It might be ugly over the next 2 years or so. Get over it.
Sinix wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.
He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.
He just said he wasn't going to resign in Denver and that he wanted to go to NY. Ujiri made a big thing about getting assets back. Melo wanted a deal in ny before the lockout/new cba. Melo is smart with his money. His agent was smart with his contract. I think it the public shaming of Melo was a bad move by PHil. He gave Melo all the power with contract that he gave him and paid him too much. He needed to approach the offseason in a manner where Melo might work with him on moving on. He chose to burn bridges. It is still a business and something will be worked out but expect Melo to get the better end of the deal. Phil gave him the power and later the motivation to make this difficult.
jrodmc wrote:What if [insert Prez name] cuts [insert Max Player with $53 million left on contract]?What do we know?
Melo is still your first or second option on this team, as currently constructed. No one else is even close.
Melo has stated he wants to stay. When it's documented that no one else, outside of starry-eyed 18 year-old euro phenoms, a few other draftees, and Rose want to be here.
The unicorn is showing some recent immaturity. Who's fault this actually is can be up for grabs.
The other two cap drags are $55 mil Noah (was even more fragile than advertised) and $36 mil Lee (has nowhere near the D as advertised).Now if we were in Philadelphia, which we aren't, paying your max player (even a declining one) to go somewhere else to live long and prosper so that your constituency can sit and watch 8 months of an overpaid center's coach sit the bench/a bunch of kids mostly running around, mostly shooting bricks and getting blown out alot, would be all fine and just part of the 5-10-15 year "process".
I don't think it plays here.
Giving a player a Max contract and an NTC and then helping in a big way to make him an unmarketable asset that you have to pay to leave has to be an epic mistake. Not that people around here get fired for those (which is why I'm not voting), but it's not addition by subtraction. It's subtraction by arrogant stupidity. IMHO, we should be getting just a bit more than that for a million a month. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I really can't imagine Hinkie cost that much to buy lottery tickets.
Seems more like Melo is your first and second choice. Your love for Melo knows no end. But he can and should sit the bench. Those shots he takes are not made for a rebuilding team. How long can you continue to stunt youth movement that need those shots to develop? As a fan whether he is on the team or on another it makes no difference whether he is getting paid by the Knicks or by someone else. I don't see how that matters for a rebuilding program.
I'm totally opposed to cutting Melo. I'm not opposed to him sitting the bench either. I believe he has an opt out after this season, whether he utilizes it or not it's his prerogative. Looks like a win win situation Melo gets to stay a Knicks and live in NY which is very important to him and he gets his money. I have no problem killing another two years with Melo as long as he plays very little to no playing time. If it comes to that it comes to that.
It's a different direction and he isn't part of that equation.
Sinix wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.
He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.
So, phil gives Melo the NTC and if he doesn't give it back, he should be punished?!?! Your hate for Melo is getting in the way of logic...How do you justify benching your best player because he wont waive what the president says he earned? How do you think this will go over with the rest of the team? You think we are team turmoil now...just wait...
Uptown wrote:Sinix wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.
He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.
So, phil gives Melo the NTC and if he doesn't give it back, he should be punished?!?! Your hate for Melo is getting in the way of logic...How do you justify benching your best player because he wont waive what the president says he earned? How do you think this will go over with the rest of the team? You think we are team turmoil now...just wait...
Phil gave Melo a NTC.
Melo gave Phil his word he'd follow the triangle.
If Melo doesn't want to go with the game plan, we can't trade him but we can bench him. It's really the best recourse against Melo's scummy behavior.
Put it out there- If anyone, Melo, whoever else, wants to come to this team and mess with the orders from high up, they'll get messed with back.
If Melo were actually a team player and changed his game like he said he would when Phil got here, it would not be an issue to keep him around. So punishing Melo wouldn't be about his NTC, it would be about his failure to follow the game plan. Like you said, Melo is the best player on the team. With that comes leadership responsibility. If he's not following the game plan, it causes a lot of problems and justifies his benching.
CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
Sinix wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Been saying n for a while he should do that. Cut him or ask him to stay home unless he agrees to waive the NTC unconditionally.If Melo doesn't waive his NTC I would support benching him over buying out. F Melo.
He made a big thing about forcing the Knicks to trade assets to get him from Denver now he won't waive his NTC so we can get some assets back for him? Screw him.
This +1 - just send him home (pay him) and keep him away from the kids.
fishmike wrote:He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.
I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.
CrushAlot wrote:fishmike wrote:He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.
Melo's popularity has declined big time and continues to do so. More people just need to become aware of what Melo is doing behind the scenes to undermine the Knicks front office.
Your average fan that doesn't read forums doesn't really understand that Melo has been making moves over the past couple years that have been Melo before the Knicks while Phil is trying to make moves that is Knicks before Melo.
Mostly your average NBA fan only sees 20-30 points Melo usually puts up and decides because of that he can't be the problem, because he's the only one putting up production like that. Then they look at all the losses, and while that does hurt Melo a bit, it puts the attention on management more.