Maybe I'm getting to old and remember too many things or too few things.
PHIL WAS A KNICK!!! For ME, he get's a pass on a lot of his mistakes unlike those who weren't Knicks. Sound minded people don't do things to hurt their family!!! HOPE SOME OF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!!
Firing Phil doesn't feel good to me!! I remember the day when Scotty, Isiah, 'Daddy Walsh' and 'Jungle Dan' all departed. I jump for joy for those departure as Spike is doing now. I'M NOT JUMPING NOW!!
In the fore mention Presidents I can only think of one good move/trade done by all of them. Isiah trading for Zach Randolph.
Something doesn't seem right about it. Maybe it the timing just before free agency. Maybe it what would the new President have done differently in this pass draft? Maybe it how will he handle the Melo situation? What about the triangle offense? What about Hornack as coach and running the triangle? What now happen to the scouts for the Knicks? Especially Gaines??
Phil to me had a vision and somethings work and somethings didn't. There are two things that Phil did trouble and two that somewhat trouble me because I think the jury is still out on them.
TROUBLE WITH:
1. The firing of Coach Woodson.
2. Signing Melo to a new contract.
SOMEWHAT TROUBLING:
1. Signing Noah. In theory I can see what Phil was trying to do. It a gamble that is just a year old and may or may not work. He was in his 30's. Lets hope it does!!
2. Signing Rose. What bother me Rose playing Good(Which I thought he did) and paying him a big contract. I was not for that so signing Rose to something the Knicks and Rose could live with was important.
THAT IS STILL POSSIBLE.
Dolan gave those other Presidents a lot longer to destory the Knicks than he gave Phil. I don't see from the mistakes he made firing him. What GM/President has turned another a team in 3 years???
PHIL if I'm correct haven't trade away any draft pick.
Phil is bring in drafting young talent and signing young adult in there early to mid 20's.
We can't win with Melo, period. I saw that when we trade for him. Not sure why Phil never saw that but it came to him to late.
Any thoughts of keeping Melo by the new President. I'm not for it. ARE WE REBUILDING WITH SAME BLUEPRINT THAT WAS PHIL??
MY FINAL QUESTION IS THIS FOR ALL THAT AGREE WITH THE FIRING.
WHO ARE YOU GOING TO HIRE THAT WHEN YOU CUT THEIR WAIST THEY BRED 'BLUE AND ORANGE'???(go back to the whole 2nd line is this topic).
I too am in the dumps
For all the legitimate criticisms against Phil, I think this is a big mistake.
Melo and KP have huge bulls eyes on them now. In addition, when Phil left so did any semblance of a vision or plan
We now have Dolan and Mills captaining the Titanic
I 100% agree with the firing "mutual parting of ways." I don't think it's important to hire a person who bleed blue and orange although I would be all for Mark Jackson coming into coach should we part ways with Hornacek. I don't care about hiring a person who bleeds Knicks colors I just want someone whose competent.
Signing Melo to a new contract wasn't bad. What was bad was giving him a no trade clause, letting the entire universe know that he wanted to trade Melo than slamming Melo at every turn to the point where he eliminated any value that Melo had!! Had he just kept his mouth shut, said the Knicks were moving in a different direction and put Melo on the block he could have dealt him and got something of value in return.
Bottom line is that the Phil experiment was a disaster and thankfully now in the past. Most important to me is that I hopefully never have to hear about the damn triangle offense! 
Chandler wrote:I too am in the dumpsFor all the legitimate criticisms against Phil, I think this is a big mistake.
Melo and KP have huge bulls eyes on them now. In addition, when Phil left so did any semblance of a vision or plan
We now have Dolan and Mills captaining the Titanic
What was the plan? Build through youth only to panic and trade for Rose and sign Noah to a mega deal only to hit the reset button while giving me nightmare's of triangles?
CashMoney wrote:Chandler wrote:I too am in the dumpsFor all the legitimate criticisms against Phil, I think this is a big mistake.
Melo and KP have huge bulls eyes on them now. In addition, when Phil left so did any semblance of a vision or plan
We now have Dolan and Mills captaining the Titanic
What was the plan? Build through youth only to panic and trade for Rose and sign Noah to a mega deal only to hit the reset button while giving me nightmare's of triangles?
build thru youth but because of melo try and atleast be playoff bound. he never traded our draft picks that most others used to get over the hill players;he just signed them outright lol. he kept the draft picks atleast and drafted well.
dacash wrote:CashMoney wrote:Chandler wrote:I too am in the dumpsFor all the legitimate criticisms against Phil, I think this is a big mistake.
Melo and KP have huge bulls eyes on them now. In addition, when Phil left so did any semblance of a vision or plan
We now have Dolan and Mills captaining the Titanic
What was the plan? Build through youth only to panic and trade for Rose and sign Noah to a mega deal only to hit the reset button while giving me nightmare's of triangles?
build thru youth but because of melo try and atleast be playoff bound. he never traded our draft picks that most others used to get over the hill players;he just signed them outright lol. he kept the draft picks atleast and drafted well.
He didn't have any picks to trade until 2018.
I've never been so down on the Knicks and I've been through the totality for the Isiah years.
I'm seriously considering Nets fandom. It's getting really hard to support James Dolan.
Phil has already left his imprint on the franchise. KP Willy Nitty Dotson etc. Young Core players and a bunch of quality UDFA's. A new GM is being left with a better situation than Phil had when he took over. Much easier to build on this foundation.
I see the pursuit of playoff did not derail the rebuild. Lee and Rose was low risk and lee is tradable. Noah was a stretch but lets see if he can rebound. Not banking on it, but the kid when he was right was great.
If Phil was here for two years and in that time we suffer the financial contraits of a buy out against the cap, and KP is miserable then its best to part now and salvage those assets. Three years should have been it and at best Phil did reset the franchise, did not trade our first rounders and has some young players to build with. All in all, not terrible.
fix Melo, repair KP and we are good again.
I like the idea of culture building and like the idea of an identity style of play. The triangle in pure form might be outdated but in theory and blended with Hornacek's was a valid concept. Players with the iq and ability to play at a high level of ball movement is not a bad thing.
I don't know what was the tipping point for Knicks to move past Phil and it will make for good reading at some point. I'd would have liked if Phil had his successor in place to evolve the process, the culture and the scouting into the future.
I wonder if we can build on what we started and "tweek" it than just replace it. There are some good things that happend.
If Hornachek no part of the future I'd like to see David Blatt back in the NBA with us.
nixluva wrote:Phil has already left his imprint on the franchise. KP Willy Nitty Dotson etc. Young Core players and a bunch of quality UDFA's. A new GM is being left with a better situation than Phil had when he took over. Much easier to build on this foundation.
what are the odds that all but KP gets traded within Tyne next 18 months along with future picks?
meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:Phil has already left his imprint on the franchise. KP Willy Nitty Dotson etc. Young Core players and a bunch of quality UDFA's. A new GM is being left with a better situation than Phil had when he took over. Much easier to build on this foundation.
what are the odds that all but KP gets traded within Tyne next 18 months along with future picks?
Are you talking about for free agents like Teague? Dolan stopped the trading of first rounders when the Knicks didn't trade for Lowry. I do think some of the udfas from last year might be let go.
I agree the plan probably gets lost somewhere. The next GM starts his rebuild and team he gets canned and the next and the next and the next. The biggest problem with the Knicks is they don't have tuff skin. They cave in to the situation all the time.
CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:Phil has already left his imprint on the franchise. KP Willy Nitty Dotson etc. Young Core players and a bunch of quality UDFA's. A new GM is being left with a better situation than Phil had when he took over. Much easier to build on this foundation.
what are the odds that all but KP gets traded within Tyne next 18 months along with future picks?
Are you talking about for free agents like Teague? Dolan stopped the trading of first rounders when the Knicks didn't trade for Lowry. I do think some of the udfas from last year might be let go.
If you think it was a Dolan move to keep our draft pick then you don't know James Dolan.
CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:Phil has already left his imprint on the franchise. KP Willy Nitty Dotson etc. Young Core players and a bunch of quality UDFA's. A new GM is being left with a better situation than Phil had when he took over. Much easier to build on this foundation.
what are the odds that all but KP gets traded within Tyne next 18 months along with future picks?
Are you talking about for free agents like Teague? Dolan stopped the trading of first rounders when the Knicks didn't trade for Lowry. I do think some of the udfas from last year might be let go.
Yeah this is not a DOOM and GLOOM situation. I do think Phil left this franchise in BETTER shape than he found it. It's a MUCH easier job for a new GM than when Phil took over. Already have young studs in place and just need to make solid moves from here. A quality GM should be able to build on this team but my only issue is that Dolan has shown he'll take the side of guys like Melo over a GM and that's actually not a good thing. Those cheering this are forgetting the signal that this move sends.
Which of our past Presidential fugazies ever got paid 60 million to screw up tanking, sleep, go into hiding, tell people how to coach, sign bad FA contracts, tweet and ghost write and say sh-t about the two best players on the team, especially after drafting one and giving the world to the other one?
Hey, if you're so sure you can't stand Dolan, don't buy his music. Dolan doesn't play ball.
Better yet, go root for an owner you can love and enjoy. Cuban's a really cool guy, I hear. Maybe Billy King is still working somewhere...
Vmart wrote:I agree the plan probably gets lost somewhere. The next GM starts his rebuild and team he gets canned and the next and the next and the next. The biggest problem with the Knicks is they don't have tuff skin. They cave in to the situation all the time.
Basically they have caved in to this one stinking dimbass 4 different times now. Trade with Dencer, MDA firing, Walsh firing and now Phil. And we have a precious second round exit tho show for it.
jrodmc wrote:Which of our past Presidential fugazies ever got paid 60 million to screw up tanking, sleep, go into hiding, tell people how to coach, sign bad FA contracts, tweet and ghost write and say sh-t about the two best players on the team, especially after drafting one and giving the world to the other one?Hey, if you're so sure you can't stand Dolan, don't buy his music. Dolan doesn't play ball.
Better yet, go root for an owner you can love and enjoy. Cuban's a really cool guy, I hear. Maybe Billy King is still working somewhere...
Thats not really an answer is it? All the thing you say are true, but the question is: Is the franchise better now than three years ago?
Bill King is gone, Cube owns another team and the NTC might have been done under any President of knicks.
meloshouldgo wrote:Vmart wrote:I agree the plan probably gets lost somewhere. The next GM starts his rebuild and team he gets canned and the next and the next and the next. The biggest problem with the Knicks is they don't have tuff skin. They cave in to the situation all the time.
Basically they have caved in to this one stinking dimbass 4 different times now. Trade with Dencer, MDA firing, Walsh firing and now Phil. And we have a precious second round exit tho show for it.
Dolan has assured that there's nothing we can do about this dynamic. The Players won. Now all we can do is be glad that Phil at least was able to bring in some young talent and any new GM will have a MUCH easier time building this team from here. This is not a bad situation Phil left the franchise in. Some quality young talent, all our picks, some cap space and some tradeable vets.
nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Vmart wrote:I agree the plan probably gets lost somewhere. The next GM starts his rebuild and team he gets canned and the next and the next and the next. The biggest problem with the Knicks is they don't have tuff skin. They cave in to the situation all the time.
Basically they have caved in to this one stinking dimbass 4 different times now. Trade with Dencer, MDA firing, Walsh firing and now Phil. And we have a precious second round exit tho show for it.
Dolan has assured that there's nothing we can do about this dynamic. The Players won. Now all we can do is be glad that Phil at least was able to bring in some young talent and any new GM will have a MUCH easier time building this team from here. This is not a bad situation Phil left the franchise in. Some quality young talent, all our picks, some cap space and some tradeable vets.
I don't understand the bold at all. The kooks are running the asylum -- and not just here
We have some quality young talent IF (BIG IF) we commit to a team-oriented style of movement and passing. But guess what the kooks don't want that. Too much work, too much sacrifice
Chandler wrote:nixluva wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Vmart wrote:I agree the plan probably gets lost somewhere. The next GM starts his rebuild and team he gets canned and the next and the next and the next. The biggest problem with the Knicks is they don't have tuff skin. They cave in to the situation all the time.
Basically they have caved in to this one stinking dimbass 4 different times now. Trade with Dencer, MDA firing, Walsh firing and now Phil. And we have a precious second round exit tho show for it.
Dolan has assured that there's nothing we can do about this dynamic. The Players won. Now all we can do is be glad that Phil at least was able to bring in some young talent and any new GM will have a MUCH easier time building this team from here. This is not a bad situation Phil left the franchise in. Some quality young talent, all our picks, some cap space and some tradeable vets.
I don't understand the bold at all. The kooks are running the asylum -- and not just here
We have some quality young talent IF (BIG IF) we commit to a team-oriented style of movement and passing. But guess what the kooks don't want that. Too much work, too much sacrifice
He means structurally Phil has left the Knicks with pieces to work with that aren't bad at all. There's a level of flexibility now to make moves Phil did not have when he came into the job.
But on the other equation you have the swamp. James Dolan promising he'll get out of the way then he goes over your head. Players like Melo who won't play defense or pass the ball - this is your on court leader that your other players will take queues from.
This is the type of situation that will probably go well for a few months into the season and then fall apart because there is no firm backbone to upper management anymore.
please find me one article on the internet today that hasnt define phil jacksons tenure as knicks president as, clueless, disaster, horrible, terrible, worst ever, about time, dolans saves the day,
He has fooled a hand full of you into thinking he had plan because he was a successful coach many years ago.
where i come from the positives should out weigh the negatives when making a decision. jacksons negatives far out weigh his positives.
this guy on the radio summed it up best, just because you took a crap in your pants doesnt mean you have to keep them on.
