Whether you hate or like Phil we can all agree that the one thing he did well was focusing on draft picks and keeping the future draft picks which we most definetly need. As we all know from 2000-2014 we traded numerous first round picks for bloated contracts or flawed players and actually got worse. I understand we stink now but at least we have some young talet nd will continue to get more young alet through out next couple drafts. Dolan better not start doing the same crap he did for years because we will be in even worse shape
My biggest fear is that the Knicks get a GM that goes back to quick fixes at the expense of draft picks. With Melo around you almost can guarantee that is going to happen because it is what Melo will demand. New GM going to try and keep his job will succumb to Melos demands simply out of fear for his job.
Sadly I agree. Look I have never said Phil was a great president...in fact I was more critical of him than praising of him. However I hav always been a supporter of drafting and developing talent through the draft while adding pieces in free agency t supplement the young core. The good news is that Paul is off the market otherwise Melo probably would have demanded Dolan trade Frank,Willy,and a unprotected first for him
I have acknowledged Phil's past mistakes but I always saw what his intentions were. For some reason some of his bigger moves back fired. But he to was guilty of trying to accommodate Melo. What I liked was the fact that he prized the draft. Got some good players to go forward with.
Like Eny said I hope somehow Phil's message stays with the organization going forward. That is why I would just promote Mills and Houston as GM and go forward.
If you think about it there are fewer and fewer gettable STARS left. They're all bunched up on a few teams! So IMO the Knicks are going to be forced to REBUILD in a more natural way. What's the List of gettable difference makers left out there?
Dolan blocked the Lowry trade because he didn't want to give up the 2018 pick. Not sure why that would change now. It is not like the Knicks are one piece away.
We will trade the farm for Westbrook so we can "win now" with the black hole. Everyone will get excited that we have a playoff caliber team with Russel, Carmela and KP6. We may even crack 50 wins one year before our second round exit. After that it will get worse and we won't have any draft picks.
meloshouldgo wrote:We will trade the farm for Westbrook so we can "win now" with the black hole. Everyone will get excited that we have a playoff caliber team with Russel, Carmela and KP6. We may even crack 50 wins one year before our second round exit. After that it will get worse and we won't have any draft picks.
Sounds very knicksian
Since Phil was canned, the narrative is shifting on Melo being not such a victim after all.
Articles with "trustworthy sources"
- saying that Phil told Melo was trying to sabotage him
- Melo was not happy with KP when he praised the triangle
- Melo wanting a buyout screwing the knicks for any asset
I think the media need a new punching ball. Melo won't have the same power in knicks management from now on.
He's the new bad guy
We should be in full tank mode next season. If the young players show some promise next season then maybe the following year they can sign a FA or 2, but for now the only priorities should be playing time for youth, and the highest draft pick we can get.
Vmart wrote:My biggest fear is that the Knicks get a GM that goes back to quick fixes at the expense of draft picks. With Melo around you almost can guarantee that is going to happen because it is what Melo will demand. New GM going to try and keep his job will succumb to Melos demands simply out of fear for his job.
The rebuild is over. It took a guy with eleven rings to stand up to Dolan/CAA and demand non interference in basketball decisions. He wasn't a great GM, but he was basketball icon and he wanted to do a full rebuild but was hamstrung by having no picks. Now if you look at the data, Dolan always sides with Melo against doing the right thing and Melo could care less about the Knicks, system basketball and rebuilding. Anyone we hire who tries to rebuild will come under attack from media and "fans"and then Melo will start his usual subterfuge. That guy will get fired as well. As long as Melo is on the roster this will be pathetic shitty franchise that will routinely fire coaches and GMs to cover for the failures of the "star player". No name recognition guy will outlast Melo. As a franchise we are cursed by our own baggage. We have seen this story play out way too many times already, nothing has changed.
This, and NOT his GM skills was why I wanted Phil to stay. He was kind of our last hope to get rid of this diva and stockpile young players, the actual rebuild could have happened later.
But this is New York and "fans" want to "win now with Melo". And it's always someone else's fault.
CAN'T FIX STUPID
It will be interesting to see who is hired. The current CBA has made keeping your picks so important. There are not many teams/gms left that chase stars and pieces with picks. The Knicks, bringing in Leweicke, saying the process will take time, and reportedly vetting candidates thoroughly is a good sign. Yesterday it was reported both Calipari and Isiah Thomas are not being considered for the position. The candidates that have been mentioned so far, Presti, Griffin, and Ujiri are all highly regarded in the league. The Knicks probably go with a name guy versus an up and comer or player agent. But nothing I have read about the process so far indicates that they are chasing a big name without experience or a Billy King type. Dolan also put an end to trading picks when he wouldn't send the 2018 pick to Toronto for Lowry 3 years ago.
CrushAlot wrote:It will be interesting to see who is hired. The current CBA has made keeping your picks so important. There are not many teams/gms left that chase stars and pieces with picks. The Knicks, bringing in Leweicke, saying the process will take time, and reportedly vetting candidates thoroughly is a good sign. Yesterday it was reported both Calipari and Isiah Thomas are not being considered for the position. The candidates that have been mentioned so far, Presti, Griffin, and Ujiri are all highly regarded in the league. The Knicks probably go with a name guy versus an up and comer or player agent. But nothing I have read about the process so far indicates that they are chasing a big name without experience or a Billy King type. Dolan also put an end to trading picks when he wouldn't send the 2018 pick to Toronto for Lowry 3 years ago.
You keep bringing up Lowry point as if Dolan cherishes picks. Please stop. That's a distortion
Dolan didn't do that trade because he was fleeced twice by ujiri and feared it would be a third
If anything people should consider that when considering ujiri. He doesn't have this magical eye for talent
Yeah i don't care about us signing bigger name players, just as long as we don't trade picks. Picks are too important.
The Knicks spent all their cap room on aging, overrated veterans. How can you say they were rebuilding? Because they didn't trade away their 1st round picks? By that definition, the Spurs and Warriors are rebuilding! At best, you could say Phil was "half-building"
Bonn1997 wrote:The Knicks spent all their cap room on aging, overrated veterans. How can you say they were rebuilding? Because they didn't trade away their 1st round picks? By that definition, the Spurs and Warriors are rebuilding! At best, you could say Phil was "half-building"
THe moves for Rose and Noah were made as a last ditch effort to placate Melo and hopefully get him to play the right way. The problem is Noah got hurt, Rose missed training camp and Melo stayed Melo.
The Rose move was low risk and I am against re-signing him. The Noah move was made to replace RoLO and also to have someone there who could be a role model for KP and Willy. The jury is out on this one but early indications are not good.
Holiday was a good pick up in that deal and hopefully he sticks around as a solid guy off the bench.
As for picks, not only should they not be used to get garbage on the court but they should definitely NOT be used to get a guy in the front office that doesnt even play!!
Forget all these guys that are under contract. Hire Houston as the Team President and let Mills be the GM, paperwork guy. Houston and Hornacek can work on getting the guys they want.
Knixkik wrote:Yeah i don't care about us signing bigger name players, just as long as we don't trade picks. Picks are too important.
Extremely important. It fields more Briggs prospect threads. (Which i enjoy)
Thanasis
Early
Grant
Hardaway Jr.
Papanakaliaou
Shumperr
Landry
Rautins
Jordan Hill
Gallinari
Chandler
Marry Collins
Renaldo
Dijon Thompson
David Lee
Frye
Ariza
Slavko Veranes
Marceij Lampe
Michael Sweetney
Nene
Eric Ceneweth
Michael Wright
Lavar Postal
Donald Harvey
Jr Koch
Fredrich Weiss
Frank??? This shit organization wouldn"t know how to pick a good player if it hit them in the ass. Yeah I know KP!! Look up at the list and tell me what our average is.
Definitely would not have traded any of those guys or a future lottery ticker for Lowry.
Btw, everyone keeps applauding Phil for not trading future first rounders. Has anyone else seen what Crush has been saying...HE WAS NOT ABLE TO TRADE A FUTURE FIRST ROUNDER UNTIL 2018.
But anyway. Sorry to disturb the mourning process.
meloshouldgo wrote:Vmart wrote:My biggest fear is that the Knicks get a GM that goes back to quick fixes at the expense of draft picks. With Melo around you almost can guarantee that is going to happen because it is what Melo will demand. New GM going to try and keep his job will succumb to Melos demands simply out of fear for his job.
The rebuild is over. It took a guy with eleven rings to stand up to Dolan/CAA and demand non interference in basketball decisions. He wasn't a great GM, but he was basketball icon and he wanted to do a full rebuild but was hamstrung by having no picks. Now if you look at the data, Dolan always sides with Melo against doing the right thing and Melo could care less about the Knicks, system basketball and rebuilding. Anyone we hire who tries to rebuild will come under attack from media and "fans"and then Melo will start his usual subterfuge. That guy will get fired as well. As long as Melo is on the roster this will be pathetic shitty franchise that will routinely fire coaches and GMs to cover for the failures of the "star player". No name recognition guy will outlast Melo. As a franchise we are cursed by our own baggage. We have seen this story play out way too many times already, nothing has changed.
This, and NOT his GM skills was why I wanted Phil to stay. He was kind of our last hope to get rid of this diva and stockpile young players, the actual rebuild could have happened later.
But this is New York and "fans" want to "win now with Melo". And it's always someone else's fault.
CAN'T FIX STUPID
lol!! Great Post...esp the last line...use it all the time!
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:The Knicks spent all their cap room on aging, overrated veterans. How can you say they were rebuilding? Because they didn't trade away their 1st round picks? By that definition, the Spurs and Warriors are rebuilding! At best, you could say Phil was "half-building"
THe moves for Rose and Noah were made as a last ditch effort to placate Melo and hopefully get him to play the right way. The problem is Noah got hurt, Rose missed training camp and Melo stayed Melo. The Rose move was low risk and I am against re-signing him. The Noah move was made to replace RoLO and also to have someone there who could be a role model for KP and Willy. The jury is out on this one but early indications are not good.
Holiday was a good pick up in that deal and hopefully he sticks around as a solid guy off the bench.
As for picks, not only should they not be used to get garbage on the court but they should definitely NOT be used to get a guy in the front office that doesnt even play!!
Forget all these guys that are under contract. Hire Houston as the Team President and let Mills be the GM, paperwork guy. Houston and Hornacek can work on getting the guys they want.
Just to placate Melo? Melo shouldn't have even been here on a super max contract if we were rebuilding. I don't see spending 8 figures/year on Lee for ages 31 to 35 as rebuilding either. Phil kept our draft picks. By that definition, 90% of the league is rebuilding.
StarksEwing1 wrote:Whether you hate or like Phil we can all agree that the one thing he did well was focusing on draft picks and keeping the future draft picks which we most definetly need. As we all know from 2000-2014 we traded numerous first round picks for bloated contracts or flawed players and actually got worse. I understand we stink now but at least we have some young talet nd will continue to get more young alet through out next couple drafts. Dolan better not start doing the same crap he did for years because we will be in even worse shape
No more trading draft picks for anyone please. We already owe our 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 2nd round picks to the 76ers and they just got this years 2nd rounder as well. I'm alright with the two we gave them for the trade to get Willy but lets start keeping our picks and using them for our own team.
Bonn1997 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:The Knicks spent all their cap room on aging, overrated veterans. How can you say they were rebuilding? Because they didn't trade away their 1st round picks? By that definition, the Spurs and Warriors are rebuilding! At best, you could say Phil was "half-building"
THe moves for Rose and Noah were made as a last ditch effort to placate Melo and hopefully get him to play the right way. The problem is Noah got hurt, Rose missed training camp and Melo stayed Melo. The Rose move was low risk and I am against re-signing him. The Noah move was made to replace RoLO and also to have someone there who could be a role model for KP and Willy. The jury is out on this one but early indications are not good.
Holiday was a good pick up in that deal and hopefully he sticks around as a solid guy off the bench.
As for picks, not only should they not be used to get garbage on the court but they should definitely NOT be used to get a guy in the front office that doesnt even play!!
Forget all these guys that are under contract. Hire Houston as the Team President and let Mills be the GM, paperwork guy. Houston and Hornacek can work on getting the guys they want.
Just to placate Melo? Melo shouldn't have even been here on a super max contract if we were rebuilding. I don't see spending 8 figures/year on Lee for ages 31 to 35 as rebuilding either. Phil kept our draft picks. By that definition, 90% of the league is rebuilding.
I agree Melo should not have been here. I am of the opinion that was a Dolan move not a Phil Move but phil signed off so he has to take blame. Also that was his first summer and first big idea. The idea there was to "transform" Melo into a winning type of player. Phil's ego thought he could do it back then.
It didn't work. Thus, the idea of the full rebuild started sometime midway through this past season. If you recall Phil thought this was a playoff team in the first years. They were not.
Also, no 1st round picks for the first summer and then KP and then no 1st pick again...hard to rebuild that way. No all 1st round picks, 3 young guys to build around at least and a decent amount of young talent to look at. Time to rebuild...get a 4th rotation player next draft and away they can go.
Lee is another vet brought here with Rose and Noah to give Melo a solid group to play with if only he could do that.
