stanleybostitch wrote:I would only start to consider sending Willy away if we got the unprotected Lakers or Nets pick next year in addition to Smart. Then we have the basis for a conversation, but short of that, don't bother.
I consider Willy g more untouchable than KP. I dont see me trading Willy for anything.
BRIGGS wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:I would only start to consider sending Willy away if we got the unprotected Lakers or Nets pick next year in addition to Smart. Then we have the basis for a conversation, but short of that, don't bother.
I consider Willy g more untouchable than KP. I dont see me trading Willy for anything.
Interesting in of itself considering you think the Knicks lack anyone who can draft.
Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Welpee wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Welpee wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Paris907 wrote:http://nypost.com/2017/07/06/knicks-pursuing-celtics-defensive-minded-guard-in-trade/I'm a Smart fan. He is a defensive ace and his 3 PT % is deceptive as it increased signicantky as the season wore on. It was evident in the playoffs. He's no mentor but a super building block. Easy trade for Knicks. Just don't give up a 1st!
I've been chatting with a Celtics fan this morning. The Celtics are asking for a pick and Hernangomez for Smart. I doubt a deal gets done because Ainge has to WIN every trade by a large margin... usually in a salary dump for a prospect that, while good, is a disappointment a pick follows the salary.
I have no interest in dealing Hernangomez, at least not for Smart. The former has a chance to be really good. The latter is a nice piece but not nearly as good as many thought he'd be
How would a fan know what they're asking for him? If a fan knew then the media would definitely know and it would be all over in tweets.
Either Ainge is crazy or we're crazy for even considering that deal. Tell Ainge to kick rocks and see if he can get anything close to that from anybody else. Seems like he's just using the Knicks just like free agents.
smart is a 6th overall pick in his draft just 3 yrs ago, willy is a 2nd rnd pick, who can't play a lick of defense to save his life.. and they never said what yr the pick had to be.
So if Anthony Bennett was offered for Willy we should pull the trigger because he was the #1 pick in his draft? And it doesn't matter what year the pick is, it's a horrible deal for the Knicks. Not to mention, what incentive is there to help a division foe?
I would pass on the trade, that dude shot 28% from 3 land, 35% overall...he needs to be giving us a 1st rndr with him
The point is it doesn't matter where your drafted once you have an NBA history. Willy is simply a better player than Smart right now. Just to be clear, we're talking about a career .358 shooter! They better be giving us picks if we're swapping Smart and Willy.
I just wouldn't do it. There's a chance that Willy can really blossom and be of even greater value! Just so knicks1248 knows Marc Gasol sucked on D as a rookie too. Players do improve.
Marc Gasol
Season Age Tm Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS ORtg DRtg
2008-09 24 MEM C 82 75 2521 7.4 14.0 .530 0.0 0.0 .000 7.4 13.9 .530 5.8 7.9 .733 4.2 8.5 12.8 3.0 1.3 1.9 3.5 5.6 20.6 112 108
Willy
2016-17 22 NYK C 72 22 1324 9.3 17.6 .529 0.2 0.6 .267 9.1 17.0 .538 3.4 4.7 .728 6.4 12.5 19.0 3.6 1.5 1.4 3.8 5.7 22.2 111 107
Good defense helps but not if you can't score. Smart held his man to only 42.6%, which is nice until you notice that he only shot 35.8%!
Yes thus Phil's emphasis on TWO WAY players. You simply can't compete without some legit scoring. It's like how the rules changes made the NFL a much more Offense Driven league. The NBA is that way as well. You want to have Defense to be sure but you BETTER have some high end scoring in the NBA now if you want to really compete at the highest levels.
I expect the Knicks to improve on both ends as these young players develop into bigger roles. It starts with KP and Willy IMO. The stronger and more dominant they both become the tougher they make it on opposing defenses and that will open things up for our perimeter shooters. Also will help to have better perimeter defense to slow other teams down a bit and create some fast breaks.
I like Smart but NO WAY should the Knicks trade Willy for Smart. Just doesn't even make sense. I've said for a while now that Willy is like a top 1st rd pick IMO.
Looks like S&T with Utah close. Details not released but Crowder needs to pack a bag.
BRIGGS wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:I would only start to consider sending Willy away if we got the unprotected Lakers or Nets pick next year in addition to Smart. Then we have the basis for a conversation, but short of that, don't bother.
I consider Willy g more untouchable than KP. I dont see me trading Willy for anything.
Same no way we trade Willy unless it's for a star
I only want him for free, or maybe for KOQ at most. No point on giving up assets at this point
A smart and Baker backcourt could be frightening offensively.
Knickoftime wrote:BRIGGS wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:I would only start to consider sending Willy away if we got the unprotected Lakers or Nets pick next year in addition to Smart. Then we have the basis for a conversation, but short of that, don't bother.
I consider Willy g more untouchable than KP. I dont see me trading Willy for anything.
Interesting in of itself considering you think the Knicks lack anyone who can draft.
And he said he wouldnt trade KP for anyone in the NBA... so there's that.
Now I actually agree with him 
IMO the KP is the 3rd best "prospect" in the NBA. To me that untouchable. BTW my criteria for "prospect" is simple: Players still in a rookie contract. I currently have the best in the NBA ranked as:
1) Giannis
2) KAT
3) KP
Sample size for Willy is too small but I 100% believe he's got all the tools to be nice Gasol/Monroe type of hybrid. He's going to be a good defensive player and he's already an excellent offensive player with nothing but room to grow. He sets mean picks and is both a willing and skilled passer. We have seen him make excellent defensive plays, and of course we have seen him lost. Between his contract and what he's shown AND his relationship with KP, both are untouchable.
I dont buy this none sense they will never be able to play together as a 4/5 combo. Lunacy to declare this now, and they give you every reason to find out if they can. These two are the franchise's future. I feel pretty good about that. Maybe not ecstatic.. but pretty good.
I think you guys are hugely underestimating Smart and are hugely overestimation Porzingis and Willy. You got to remember that Smart had to play defence next to one of the worst defenders Isaiah Thomas, so his numbers are really great and in fact he is a much greater defender than what they show, as he should help out all the time. Yes he is not a great shooter, but he is improving all the time, and he has been a great part of Bostons succes this season.
When it comes to Willy and Porzingis I think they will be good players, but Porzingis is injury prone and Willy isn't that good a defender yet. It might come later on with Willy but at the moment he is to much a oneway player to become a star in the league, and I must say I really fear for Porzingis future in the league, it is simply to early in his career to have that many problems.
I'm not suggestion a trade of Smart for any of the two, but a Smart, Crowder and picks might be a good offer, and would give us great building blocks for the future, and help our defence a lot.
MG22 wrote:I think you guys are hugely underestimating Smart and are hugely overestimation Porzingis and Willy. You got to remember that Smart had to play defence next to one of the worst defenders Isaiah Thomas, so his numbers are really great and in fact he is a much greater defender than what they show, as he should help out all the time. Yes he is not a great shooter, but he is improving all the time, and he has been a great part of Bostons succes this season.When it comes to Willy and Porzingis I think they will be good players, but Porzingis is injury prone and Willy isn't that good a defender yet. It might come later on with Willy but at the moment he is to much a oneway player to become a star in the league, and I must say I really fear for Porzingis future in the league, it is simply to early in his career to have that many problems.
I'm not suggestion a trade of Smart for any of the two, but a Smart, Crowder and picks might be a good offer, and would give us great building blocks for the future, and help our defence a lot.
FYI - Smart has played in 82% of his games over his career, KP has played in 84%. Also, Smart's shooting percentage went from 37% to 35% to 36% and this three point shooting 34% to 25% to 28%. I don't consider that "improving all the time" though I give him credit for becoming a good free throw shooter (65% to 78% to 81%).
I'd offer Plumblee (sp?) and a 2011 2nd round pick (I think we still have that one). If they want more, go somewhere else. Smart is a 1 year rental who's a liability as a shooter.
This season Smart played in regular season 79 games and Porzingis only played in 66 games. The reason for Smarts earlier low numbers is because he wasn't ready when he came into the league. Porzingis health is a problem and as a bigman it is a serious thing so early in the career.
Stats can be great tool, but you should still look at his game. He is not taking that many shots, as Celtica basketball has been a lot about giving the ball to Thomas and Horford, but if you take a look at his game he is getting smarter, and you will see that when he get to shoot more his numbers will improve, but again he is a force on the defensive end and that should be the main reason to sign him.
Smart's advanced stats show that he's pretty bad despite the hype.
reub wrote:Smart's advanced stats show that he's pretty bad despite the hype.
I agree and I'm a Smart fan. But he's not quite starter material, yet. He'd be a valuable addition to this team, but his value to us doesn't reach the level of first-rounder or Willy. A win now team can justify giving up a first-rounder. But we've got a long road to travel before we can even sniff that point.
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/05/22/mr-big-shot-chauncey-billups-backs-marcus-smart-as-a-clutch-player/amp
Paris907 wrote:https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/05/22/mr-big-shot-chauncey-billups-backs-marcus-smart-as-a-clutch-player/amp
That was a helluva of a performance, but he failed to touch double digits scoring numbers in every other game that series. He still made an impact defensively, but it's hard to start him over the course of a season. He's a niche player. I'd like to have him, but not for Willy or a first-rounder.
MG22 wrote:This season Smart played in regular season 79 games and Porzingis only played in 66 games. The reason for Smarts earlier low numbers is because he wasn't ready when he came into the league. Porzingis health is a problem and as a bigman it is a serious thing so early in the career.Stats can be great tool, but you should still look at his game. He is not taking that many shots, as Celtica basketball has been a lot about giving the ball to Thomas and Horford, but if you take a look at his game he is getting smarter, and you will see that when he get to shoot more his numbers will improve, but again he is a force on the defensive end and that should be the main reason to sign him.
And last year, Smart only played in 61 games. And his shooting hasn't improved with shooting more:
FGA FG% 2PA 2P% 3PA 3P%
2014-15 7.1 36.7 3.1 41 4.1 33.5
2015-16 8.7 34.8 4.7 42.7 4 25.3
2016-17 9.5 35.9 5.3 42 4.2 28.3
He might be a pretty good defender and distributor but he's an atrocious shooter and hasn't improved in three seasons.
At this point unless we hear something is about to happen I am assuming this is another pointless rumor.
I do believe Ainge asked for Willy or a 1st rounder and Mills wisely said "NO"
Welpee wrote:Rookie wrote:according to this chart http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/, there are 2 teams with enough cap to absorb one of the Boston contracts and 12 more that could create the necessary cap space by releasing cap holds. That said, I don't see any of the 14 teams giving up a young prospect and a 1st rd pick for any of the three (Smart, Bradley, Crowder).The only team in any scenario that needs to make a move is Boston, although I could see Utah wanting to get back an asset after losing Hayward. Thing is, the way it went down with Utah losing both Hayward and the ability to make an offer to Porter, they likely aren't going to do anything that would embarrass the organization and give any assets to Boston
Yeah, teams know Boston has no leverage and none of the players they're trying to move will take anybody to the next level. All three guys could help the Knicks but none of them are game changers. If I'm the Knicks I just sit back and see what happens but I definitely wouldn't give up a pick for any of those dudes.
I would do a 2nd but no frickin way I give up Willy not with that contract
fitzfarm wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Paris907 wrote:http://nypost.com/2017/07/06/knicks-pursuing-celtics-defensive-minded-guard-in-trade/I'm a Smart fan. He is a defensive ace and his 3 PT % is deceptive as it increased signicantky as the season wore on. It was evident in the playoffs. He's no mentor but a super building block. Easy trade for Knicks. Just don't give up a 1st!
I've been chatting with a Celtics fan this morning. The Celtics are asking for a pick and Hernangomez for Smart. I doubt a deal gets done because Ainge has to WIN every trade by a large margin... usually in a salary dump for a prospect that, while good, is a disappointment a pick follows the salary.
I have no interest in dealing Hernangomez, at least not for Smart. The former has a chance to be really good. The latter is a nice piece but not nearly as good as many thought he'd be
How would a fan know what they're asking for him? If a fan knew then the media would definitely know and it would be all over in tweets.
lol I'm sure mills said " hahahahahahahahaaha how about oquinn for smart strait up hahahaha willy and our first your a crazy sob!"
No Mills said " Oh Geez Danny, i'm not sure i can do that fella"
MG22 wrote:This season Smart played in regular season 79 games and Porzingis only played in 66 games. The reason for Smarts earlier low numbers is because he wasn't ready when he came into the league. Porzingis health is a problem and as a bigman it is a serious thing so early in the career.Stats can be great tool, but you should still look at his game. He is not taking that many shots, as Celtica basketball has been a lot about giving the ball to Thomas and Horford, but if you take a look at his game he is getting smarter, and you will see that when he get to shoot more his numbers will improve, but again he is a force on the defensive end and that should be the main reason to sign him.
Dude, now you're just making up stuff:
http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/celtics/...So when the stats and facts refute what you say just lean on the subjective "eye test." I get it.
