Knicks · Nets getting a 2018 1st and 2nd round pick in 2018 for taking DeMarre Carroll (page 2)
Knickoftime wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/rapt...Sigh, The Nets will be a better team than the Knicks in 3 years and they gave away all their picks , we are fing clueless
Nets will have the Raptors pick, the Celtics will have the Nets pick and the Knicks will have the Knicks pick.
How's that an advantage to the Nets?
The moves the Nets have made this offseason have been smart and point directly to a GM that has a plan and knows exactly what he is doing. The Knicks overpaying a middling SG shows how out of touch they are.
Knickoftime wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Caseloads wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.He's in Canada. In the NBA, that's like basically being in Siberia.
I think he's being judged on a relative scale. I.E. if Brian Cashman wasn't with the Yankees, how would he do with a small market baseball team with full control? If Billy Beane and Cashman switched places, how would they both do?
I think the argument would be if he was in a better overall situation, he'd be more effective. Hard to say though. He's clearly better than anything the Knicks have had in a long time.
wish we had masai instead of david griffin
Wish we still had enough cap space to pull off a move like this.Pick in the 20s is THAT appealing?
Yes when you have no chance of winning absorbing contracts like this are a very smart way of building a roster. One injury to the Raptors guards who knows where that pick is. At least they realize they can't win and try to position themselves through draft picks.
Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/rapt...Sigh, The Nets will be a better team than the Knicks in 3 years and they gave away all their picks , we are fing clueless
Nets will have the Raptors pick, the Celtics will have the Nets pick and the Knicks will have the Knicks pick.
How's that an advantage to the Nets?
The moves the Nets have made this offseason have been smart and point directly to a GM that has a plan and knows exactly what he is doing. The Knicks overpaying a middling SG shows how out of touch they are.
He can be the greatest GM in all the wide world doesn't change the fact they'll be a lottery team without a lottery pick.
The team has D'angelo Russell who'll maybe a decent player and wait until 2019.
Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Caseloads wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.He's in Canada. In the NBA, that's like basically being in Siberia.
I think he's being judged on a relative scale. I.E. if Brian Cashman wasn't with the Yankees, how would he do with a small market baseball team with full control? If Billy Beane and Cashman switched places, how would they both do?
I think the argument would be if he was in a better overall situation, he'd be more effective. Hard to say though. He's clearly better than anything the Knicks have had in a long time.
wish we had masai instead of david griffin
Wish we still had enough cap space to pull off a move like this.Pick in the 20s is THAT appealing?
Yes when you have no chance of winning absorbing contracts like this are a very smart way of building a roster. One injury to the Raptors guards who knows where that pick is. At least they realize they can't win and try to position themselves through draft picks.
Well, it's lottery protected, so we can pin down "who knows" pretty significantly.
Knicks are almost certainly going to have a better pick in 2018 than the Nets.
Again, you're putting a lot of weight in philosophy when we know the details of the deck stacked against them.
Knickoftime wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Caseloads wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.He's in Canada. In the NBA, that's like basically being in Siberia.
I think he's being judged on a relative scale. I.E. if Brian Cashman wasn't with the Yankees, how would he do with a small market baseball team with full control? If Billy Beane and Cashman switched places, how would they both do?
I think the argument would be if he was in a better overall situation, he'd be more effective. Hard to say though. He's clearly better than anything the Knicks have had in a long time.
wish we had masai instead of david griffin
Wish we still had enough cap space to pull off a move like this.Pick in the 20s is THAT appealing?
Yes when you have no chance of winning absorbing contracts like this are a very smart way of building a roster. One injury to the Raptors guards who knows where that pick is. At least they realize they can't win and try to position themselves through draft picks.
Well, it's lottery protected, so we can pin down "who knows" pretty significantly.
Knicks are almost certainly going to have a better pick in 2018 than the Nets.
Again, you're putting a lot of weight in philosophy when we know the details of the deck stacked against them.
I said in 3 years, not next season. The Nets seem to understand their position and are making moves accordingly the Knicks either are delusional, stupid, or both.
Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Caseloads wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.He's in Canada. In the NBA, that's like basically being in Siberia.
I think he's being judged on a relative scale. I.E. if Brian Cashman wasn't with the Yankees, how would he do with a small market baseball team with full control? If Billy Beane and Cashman switched places, how would they both do?
I think the argument would be if he was in a better overall situation, he'd be more effective. Hard to say though. He's clearly better than anything the Knicks have had in a long time.
wish we had masai instead of david griffin
Wish we still had enough cap space to pull off a move like this.Pick in the 20s is THAT appealing?
Yes when you have no chance of winning absorbing contracts like this are a very smart way of building a roster. One injury to the Raptors guards who knows where that pick is. At least they realize they can't win and try to position themselves through draft picks.
Wasn't Tim Hardaway Jr. picked in the 20s?
marks is trying to recoup picks/young players but he's paying ALOT of money for them. remember when late first rounders would cost $3 mil - well now he just bought one for $36 mil. he had to take on mosgov's obscene deal to get russell. it's tough being an nba gm.
morey dumped a 1st to get rid of lin and he dumped a first to get rid of asik. gm's make mistakes - it's recognizing and moving on from them, even if it costs you a bit.
norm now is going to get 30 mins - he's ready.
and ujiri is high on OG and he should be getting mins when he returns in jan.
Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/rapt...Sigh, The Nets will be a better team than the Knicks in 3 years and they gave away all their picks , we are fing clueless
Nets will have the Raptors pick, the Celtics will have the Nets pick and the Knicks will have the Knicks pick.
How's that an advantage to the Nets?
The moves the Nets have made this offseason have been smart and point directly to a GM that has a plan and knows exactly what he is doing. The Knicks overpaying a middling SG shows how out of touch they are.
I agree but their first choice was to get Otto Porter. I don't know if they would have had the cap space to take on Carroll's deal. I think the map for improvement for them is easier than what it is for the Knicks. Atlanta also as been able to acquire some extra first rounders. It will be interesting to see how their rebuilds go.
CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/rapt...Sigh, The Nets will be a better team than the Knicks in 3 years and they gave away all their picks , we are fing clueless
Nets will have the Raptors pick, the Celtics will have the Nets pick and the Knicks will have the Knicks pick.
How's that an advantage to the Nets?
The moves the Nets have made this offseason have been smart and point directly to a GM that has a plan and knows exactly what he is doing. The Knicks overpaying a middling SG shows how out of touch they are.
I agree but their first choice was to get Otto Porter. I don't know if they would have had the cap space to take on Carroll's deal. I think the map for improvement for them is easier than what it is for the Knicks. Atlanta also as been able to acquire some extra first rounders. It will be interesting to see how their rebuilds go.
From what i've seen we would be way better off with Sean Marks than Steve Mills but Dolan would never hire a man like him
cojo for a s&t cj miles, 3 years $25 mil, year 3 is PO
djsunyc wrote:not all picks are created equal. this has lotto protection.marks is trying to recoup picks/young players but he's paying ALOT of money for them. remember when late first rounders would cost $3 mil - well now he just bought one for $36 mil. he had to take on mosgov's obscene deal to get russell. it's tough being an nba gm.
morey dumped a 1st to get rid of lin and he dumped a first to get rid of asik. gm's make mistakes - it's recognizing and moving on from them, even if it costs you a bit.
norm now is going to get 30 mins - he's ready.
and ujiri is high on OG and he should be getting mins when he returns in jan.
They should have asked for a 2nd future first but even so. Its fine because they have to meet the salary cap limitations regardless. They only have cap space to use to acquire assets other then trading more picks. As long as they clean up their cap in 2 years. Year after next they will have their own lotto pick again. They can use the picks and young players they acquired over the years to build a solid team.
They really have no choice given their pick situation.
newyorknewyork wrote:djsunyc wrote:not all picks are created equal. this has lotto protection.marks is trying to recoup picks/young players but he's paying ALOT of money for them. remember when late first rounders would cost $3 mil - well now he just bought one for $36 mil. he had to take on mosgov's obscene deal to get russell. it's tough being an nba gm.
morey dumped a 1st to get rid of lin and he dumped a first to get rid of asik. gm's make mistakes - it's recognizing and moving on from them, even if it costs you a bit.
norm now is going to get 30 mins - he's ready.
and ujiri is high on OG and he should be getting mins when he returns in jan.
They should have asked for a 2nd future first but even so. Its fine because they have to meet the salary cap limitations regardless. They only have cap space to use to acquire assets other then trading more picks. As long as they clean up their cap in 2 years. Year after next they will have their own lotto pick again. They can use the picks and young players they acquired over the years to build a solid team.
They really have no choice given their pick situation.
ujiri had an interview yesterday saying he was really close to divesting and blowing it up but seeing all the good players go from east to west made him change his mind for a 3 year plan. bring the gang back and see what happens the next 3 years. if we stay around 50 wins - that would make a 7 year run of around 50 wins...which is so damn tough to do. even the cojo for cj miles deal - he's only signed for 3 years if he picks up his PO. why compete with 10 other eastern conference teams for lotto picks when he can compete with 1 or 2 other teams to be the 2nd seed.
Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Knickoftime wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Caseloads wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.He's in Canada. In the NBA, that's like basically being in Siberia.
I think he's being judged on a relative scale. I.E. if Brian Cashman wasn't with the Yankees, how would he do with a small market baseball team with full control? If Billy Beane and Cashman switched places, how would they both do?
I think the argument would be if he was in a better overall situation, he'd be more effective. Hard to say though. He's clearly better than anything the Knicks have had in a long time.
wish we had masai instead of david griffin
Wish we still had enough cap space to pull off a move like this.Pick in the 20s is THAT appealing?
Yes when you have no chance of winning absorbing contracts like this are a very smart way of building a roster. One injury to the Raptors guards who knows where that pick is. At least they realize they can't win and try to position themselves through draft picks.
Well, it's lottery protected, so we can pin down "who knows" pretty significantly.
Knicks are almost certainly going to have a better pick in 2018 than the Nets.
Again, you're putting a lot of weight in philosophy when we know the details of the deck stacked against them.
I said in 3 years, not next season. The Nets seem to understand their position and are making moves accordingly the Knicks either are delusional, stupid, or both.
Except, as pointed out, they tried to max out Porter not 5 days ago, meaning it was just a few days ago they were stupid, delusional or both.
Their "understanding of their position" seems to be a very recent development.
You overshot the target.
djsunyc wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.i like your posts b/c they are predictable :)
daryl morey traded a first rounder to dump lin. he's overrated too.
while it's not a good look to trade a first rounder to dump your first big FA...there's a little more to it. there's follow up moves coming and we needed to not only open up a spot for norman powell to get minutes but to sign him as well as he's an RFA next summer.
this also allows us to use the full MLE instead of the luxury tax MLE.
it's a lotto protected pick. we already have a 2nd rounder from the magic in 2018.
there are more moves to follow. at the end of the day, we get to 50 and advance, then it's all good. just b/c you don't have a title contending roster doesn't mean you're not a good gm. i'm not sure you understand just how tough being a gm in this league is.
I think Morley is overrated he has some delusion that adding all these players is going to put him over the top. And giving Harden a ridiculous extension for a guy who quit on his team vs Spurs.
You know what's predictable DJ it's you find ways to give Knicks move a back hand slap and every Raptor move is suppose to be golden. Knicks over pay and Raptors don't these moves by Ujiri are Knicks like moves over paying for injury prone player in Lowery and giving first round picks to get rid of bad contracts. And you have the audacity to complain about the Knicks. Ujiri isn't improving the team all he is doing is coming back with the same in hopes LeBron leaves and that will be enough to put him in the finals. Eventually he is going to deplete the picks. Believe it or not DJ it's all down hill for the Raptors.
Vmart wrote:djsunyc wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.i like your posts b/c they are predictable :)
daryl morey traded a first rounder to dump lin. he's overrated too.
while it's not a good look to trade a first rounder to dump your first big FA...there's a little more to it. there's follow up moves coming and we needed to not only open up a spot for norman powell to get minutes but to sign him as well as he's an RFA next summer.
this also allows us to use the full MLE instead of the luxury tax MLE.
it's a lotto protected pick. we already have a 2nd rounder from the magic in 2018.
there are more moves to follow. at the end of the day, we get to 50 and advance, then it's all good. just b/c you don't have a title contending roster doesn't mean you're not a good gm. i'm not sure you understand just how tough being a gm in this league is.
I think Morley is overrated he has some delusion that adding all these players is going to put him over the top. And giving Harden a ridiculous extension for a guy who quit on his team vs Spurs.
You know what's predictable DJ it's you find ways to give Knicks move a back hand slap and every Raptor move is suppose to be golden. Knicks over pay and Raptors don't these moves by Ujiri are Knicks like moves over paying for injury prone player in Lowery and giving first round picks to get rid of bad contracts. And you have the audacity to complain about the Knicks. Ujiri isn't improving the team all he is doing is coming back with the same in hopes LeBron leaves and that will be enough to put him in the finals. Eventually he is going to deplete the picks. Believe it or not DJ it's all down hill for the Raptors.
Well that's certainly one interpretation. I think he's done pretty well considering how bad his luck was. Don't forget he walked into a situation expecting to build around Yao and T Mac.
NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.
Agree. If we tradeMelo out would give us an SF to fill out the roster. THJR deal basically means we can't get a vet PG to mentor Frank
meloshouldgo wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Should I prefer using cap space to sign Tim Hardaway Jr to this? I feel like things can rapidly fall apart for the Raptors, making that 2018 pick especially valuable. Even if it stays at 25, like Bonn predicts...I'd still prefer this deal to Hardaway's.Agree. If we tradeMelo out would give us an SF to fill out the roster. THJR deal basically means we can't get a vet PG to mentor Frank
And what do you think the Carroll deal would do to that PG capspace?
djsunyc wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:djsunyc wrote:not all picks are created equal. this has lotto protection.marks is trying to recoup picks/young players but he's paying ALOT of money for them. remember when late first rounders would cost $3 mil - well now he just bought one for $36 mil. he had to take on mosgov's obscene deal to get russell. it's tough being an nba gm.
morey dumped a 1st to get rid of lin and he dumped a first to get rid of asik. gm's make mistakes - it's recognizing and moving on from them, even if it costs you a bit.
norm now is going to get 30 mins - he's ready.
and ujiri is high on OG and he should be getting mins when he returns in jan.
They should have asked for a 2nd future first but even so. Its fine because they have to meet the salary cap limitations regardless. They only have cap space to use to acquire assets other then trading more picks. As long as they clean up their cap in 2 years. Year after next they will have their own lotto pick again. They can use the picks and young players they acquired over the years to build a solid team.
They really have no choice given their pick situation.
ujiri had an interview yesterday saying he was really close to divesting and blowing it up but seeing all the good players go from east to west made him change his mind for a 3 year plan. bring the gang back and see what happens the next 3 years. if we stay around 50 wins - that would make a 7 year run of around 50 wins...which is so damn tough to do. even the cojo for cj miles deal - he's only signed for 3 years if he picks up his PO. why compete with 10 other eastern conference teams for lotto picks when he can compete with 1 or 2 other teams to be the 2nd seed.
Given TOR situation it was the smart choice to make. They have veteran pieces that can compete over the next 3 then their cap clears up. Then retool/rebuild with the space.
Vmart wrote:djsunyc wrote:Vmart wrote:Has there ever been an overrated GM as Ujiri is. People here sing his praises like he shyts gold or something. I always thought he was never that good. Topping of the Lowery fiasco with this cherry in top.i like your posts b/c they are predictable :)
daryl morey traded a first rounder to dump lin. he's overrated too.
while it's not a good look to trade a first rounder to dump your first big FA...there's a little more to it. there's follow up moves coming and we needed to not only open up a spot for norman powell to get minutes but to sign him as well as he's an RFA next summer.
this also allows us to use the full MLE instead of the luxury tax MLE.
it's a lotto protected pick. we already have a 2nd rounder from the magic in 2018.
there are more moves to follow. at the end of the day, we get to 50 and advance, then it's all good. just b/c you don't have a title contending roster doesn't mean you're not a good gm. i'm not sure you understand just how tough being a gm in this league is.
I think Morley is overrated he has some delusion that adding all these players is going to put him over the top. And giving Harden a ridiculous extension for a guy who quit on his team vs Spurs.
You know what's predictable DJ it's you find ways to give Knicks move a back hand slap and every Raptor move is suppose to be golden. Knicks over pay and Raptors don't these moves by Ujiri are Knicks like moves over paying for injury prone player in Lowery and giving first round picks to get rid of bad contracts. And you have the audacity to complain about the Knicks. Ujiri isn't improving the team all he is doing is coming back with the same in hopes LeBron leaves and that will be enough to put him in the finals. Eventually he is going to deplete the picks. Believe it or not DJ it's all down hill for the Raptors.
i very rarely talks knicks on this forum. i would say 99% is in the politics thread and then when i see a raptors post here and there. and most of my knicks talk is just playful back and forth with people i know on this board.
all knicks analysis comes down to one thing - it's almost impossible they will ever succeed under dolan. all the other things are just details but overall, that's an accurate sentiment.
as for the raptors, our peak could have possibly been the ecf's 2 years ago...and that's OK. stay in the 47-52 win area, advance and i'm good. i don't have this unrealistic view on sports and i'm not setting myself up to be constantly unhappy with unrealistic goals. trying to improve on 56 wins and ecf's is next to impossible - would need durant to sign as a FA lol.