No secret I was not a fan of the Triangle, Phils effort level nor Phil being the right guy to turn this team around. Originally thought Melo was the reason he was fired. Then changed my stance and thought KP was the reason. But now it seems clear that the reason Phil was fired was because of Mills. He has always been angling for the presidency of the organization. He went to Dolan and convinced him (Not hard) that Mills was doing all the front office work and that Gaines had done all the draft work (Reason why he is still with Knicks and not in Montana). Which may have been the case. Think Phil trying to buyout Melo was the last piece of ammunition Mills needed to approach Dolan. As getting no value for Melo is absurd.
Once Phil was fired, Mills approached KP and his brother to iron things out. Best way to do so is to let him know KP will be the "Main man"(Smart move) Reason why Melo will be dealt. Hardaway signing was a step in getting KP some protection from double teams.(Right idea)
Think Houston will be the new GM. Because he has been a good company man. BUT like I keep saying...until the top is gutted, we will always be in trouble and just another fortune 500 company full of execs that only care about self preservation, golden parachutes, NOI's and care very little about winning a chip.
or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
fishmike wrote:or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
Of course I agree. Lol. But he did that before Dolan exercised his extension. Point is, Mills was the reason Dolan made the move.
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
Of course I agree. Lol. But he did that before Dolan exercised his extension. Point is, Mills was the reason Dolan made the move.
maybe but this is part of corporate culture. Not sure what your profession is but if you have ever worked in a big bank or big company this is typical. When a high level person flounders the sharks swarm. Its just the nature of the beast. I guess my only point is if it wasnt Mills is was gonna be someone who got in Dolan's ear and pushed an agenda.
Apart from picking KP, I do not find any great task done by Phil. Was he doing a good job here? Definitely not.
He was fired because of a witch hunt lead by Daily News and ESPN nothing more nothing less.
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
Of course I agree. Lol. But he did that before Dolan exercised his extension. Point is, Mills was the reason Dolan made the move.
maybe but this is part of corporate culture. Not sure what your profession is but if you have ever worked in a big bank or big company this is typical. When a high level person flounders the sharks swarm. Its just the nature of the beast. I guess my only point is if it wasnt Mills is was gonna be someone who got in Dolan's ear and pushed an agenda.
Yep. My exact point on another thread. You would think with all the billionaires in NYC, we would find one that was a true Knick fan. But don't think Dolan's ego would ever allow him to sell the team. We need Sterling's ex girlfriend to cozy up to Dolan.
As I discussed previously about the restructure when Grunwald was gone, the decision process was corrupted by Dolan when he hired Phil.
It was always intended to have a single autonomous president at the knick helm. Dolan paid all that money to have good analysis done then he starphuched it.
Ok, that said, why Phil was made gone? Could be in part he wanted to leave and did not like the job. That contract was a promise and Dolan is a lot of things but except for Larry Brown he has not reneged on a deal.
Still, why?
Most important was Mills finally was able to paint a picture that Phil was scaring away deals, FA's and good will. We don't know the full reason why KP skipped but it was evident that there is a stench in the house and while Phil's zen Triangle was a good thing, it was not receptive to free agents and agents and that means we lose leverage in trade talks, free agents, and coaches. Also, Phil took the melodrama to a public level and while I don't think Phil said anything wrong, he still said it. Why bother?
As for KP, the drama of Phil taking calls was not a bad thing and if some of the deals floated were true ( I doubt they were), they would be good trades to boost long term talant acquisition. Phil the exec was not as flexible as phil the coach and its evident that unless you have leverage you can't force that on players or do business with he rest of the league. Now, if Phil had his own people thru the organization and had for some time the culture might have been set but that never happend. Warkentein, Gabriel, H20 all were still here. Fish rejected it and that did big damage. Yes, I think Fish really hurt Phil. Phil did not read him correct, he was not ready to be head coach as a person.
So in the end I don't think its "Corp. greed" that got mills to spring a coup d'état but it was evident that the team could not move forward and the endless drama right before the draft and free agency was detrimental to the team in both free agency and in the construction of deals. The league would take advantage of Phil and that cannot be allowed. Melo certainly had some trade value and a buy out was asinine! With Phil having final say there was no checks and balances.
This is not to say Phil was entirely wrong, but his removal was more about execution and the lose of leverage that diminishes value in transactions. Dolan messed up, he wrote the check. If mills was instrumental in his ouster it was logical, not egotistical.
Nalod wrote:
This is not to say Phil was entirely wrong, but his removal was more about execution and the lose of leverage that diminishes value in transactions.
Key statement...and absolutely 100% correct.
If Phil had spent the $300 mil that went to Melo, Noah, Lee, and Thomas intelligently, he'd still be here.
Vmart wrote:He was fired because of a witch hunt lead by Daily News and ESPN nothing more nothing less.
I agree, I don't think him having the worst record in the NBA since he became president, had anything to do with it, Dolan is super cool with that.
Just bringing THJ back for gazillion dollars, is a bitch slap in the face to phil..
After conducting an external search for a new president of basketball operations, current general manager and de facto interim team president Steve Mills is reportedly being tabbed by Knicks owner James Dolan to remain president on a permanent basis, sources told New York Post's Marc Berman.Mills had previously spent one season as the Knicks' president, but conceded those duties when Phil Jackson was brought on board in March 2014. He stayed on as general manager under Jackson for the past three seasons, co-piloting an organization that went 80-166 from 2014-17. With Jackson and the team agreeing to part ways three years into a five-year contract, Mills is evidently back in the driver's seat for the president role.
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
Of course I agree. Lol. But he did that before Dolan exercised his extension. Point is, Mills was the reason Dolan made the move.
maybe but this is part of corporate culture. Not sure what your profession is but if you have ever worked in a big bank or big company this is typical. When a high level person flounders the sharks swarm. Its just the nature of the beast. I guess my only point is if it wasnt Mills is was gonna be someone who got in Dolan's ear and pushed an agenda.
Thats why I was hoping for a house cleaning a long time ago. So Dolan had people in his ear who knew what they were talking about after Phil left. Id be pleasantly surprised if Mills picked Gaines to be GM over Houston. At least with Gaines there is an outside chance that Mills would trust his judgement enough to give him some latitude. As opposed to Houston who has been quietly in the D-league.
Houston as GM and its a safe bet that Mills will be calling all the shots. If other teams, the media, could just get in touch with him......
Bonn1997 wrote:If Phil had spent the $300 mil that went to Melo, Noah, Lee, and Thomas intelligently, he'd still be here.
the money and lack of return was a symptom of bad decision making.
Dolan messed up. There was likely an intelligent process that called him out on it. It got fixed.
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
Of course I agree. Lol. But he did that before Dolan exercised his extension. Point is, Mills was the reason Dolan made the move.
maybe but this is part of corporate culture. Not sure what your profession is but if you have ever worked in a big bank or big company this is typical. When a high level person flounders the sharks swarm. Its just the nature of the beast. I guess my only point is if it wasnt Mills is was gonna be someone who got in Dolan's ear and pushed an agenda.
Thats why I was hoping for a house cleaning a long time ago. So Dolan had people in his ear who knew what they were talking about after Phil left. Id be pleasantly surprised if Mills picked Gaines to be GM over Houston. At least with Gaines there is an outside chance that Mills would trust his judgement enough to give him some latitude. As opposed to Houston who has been quietly in the D-league.
Houston as GM and its a safe bet that Mills will be calling all the shots. If other teams, the media, could just get in touch with him......
You should google a few articles about Gaines. The man is an introverted scout and I don't think he posses the skills to be more than great talent elevator. Im not knocking that, thats super important and a hard skill to master.
knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:He was fired because of a witch hunt lead by Daily News and ESPN nothing more nothing less.
I agree, I don't think him having the worst record in the NBA since he became president, had anything to do with it, Dolan is super cool with that.
Just bringing THJ back for gazillion dollars, is a bitch slap in the face to phil..
After conducting an external search for a new president of basketball operations, current general manager and de facto interim team president Steve Mills is reportedly being tabbed by Knicks owner James Dolan to remain president on a permanent basis, sources told New York Post's Marc Berman.Mills had previously spent one season as the Knicks' president, but conceded those duties when Phil Jackson was brought on board in March 2014. He stayed on as general manager under Jackson for the past three seasons, co-piloting an organization that went 80-166 from 2014-17. With Jackson and the team agreeing to part ways three years into a five-year contract, Mills is evidently back in the driver's seat for the president role.
How come you guys don't understand the concept of tanking to get talent. It's part of the process to getting back to becoming good.
Bonn1997 wrote:If Phil had spent the $300 mil that went to Melo, Noah, Lee, and Thomas intelligently, he'd still be here.
That is BS. The media had it in for him as soon as he signed on. Witch hunt is a witch hunt everything was a negative story on Phil and they piled on more and more.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
Of course I agree. Lol. But he did that before Dolan exercised his extension. Point is, Mills was the reason Dolan made the move.
maybe but this is part of corporate culture. Not sure what your profession is but if you have ever worked in a big bank or big company this is typical. When a high level person flounders the sharks swarm. Its just the nature of the beast. I guess my only point is if it wasnt Mills is was gonna be someone who got in Dolan's ear and pushed an agenda.
Thats why I was hoping for a house cleaning a long time ago. So Dolan had people in his ear who knew what they were talking about after Phil left. Id be pleasantly surprised if Mills picked Gaines to be GM over Houston. At least with Gaines there is an outside chance that Mills would trust his judgement enough to give him some latitude. As opposed to Houston who has been quietly in the D-league.
Houston as GM and its a safe bet that Mills will be calling all the shots. If other teams, the media, could just get in touch with him......
You should google a few articles about Gaines. The man is an introverted scout and I don't think he posses the skills to be more than great talent elevator. Im not knocking that, thats super important and a hard skill to master.
You should take your own advice. The man showed up for the combine in a Dashiki, was very comfortable talking to the media about his unusual interviewing style. I would much rather the Knicks take a chance on a "introvert" like Gaines any day. Besides there is no better place for Gaines to shield himself from the media (if he so desires) than the Knicks.
You can basically sum it up as- the new york knicks swamp got him. It was a few factions tied to the old ways of the Knicks that came together to push him out.
fishmike wrote:or bad trades, bad signings, poor management of the coaching staff, disastrous media relations and alienating the franchise's best players could have done it also
Yeah there were plenty of reasons. I was shocked when he got and signed the extension.
HofstraBBall wrote:No secret I was not a fan of the Triangle, Phils effort level nor Phil being the right guy to turn this team around. Originally thought Melo was the reason he was fired. Then changed my stance and thought KP was the reason. But now it seems clear that the reason Phil was fired was because of Mills. He has always been angling for the presidency of the organization. He went to Dolan and convinced him (Not hard) that Mills was doing all the front office work and that Gaines had done all the draft work (Reason why he is still with Knicks and not in Montana). Which may have been the case. Think Phil trying to buyout Melo was the last piece of ammunition Mills needed to approach Dolan. As getting no value for Melo is absurd.
Once Phil was fired, Mills approached KP and his brother to iron things out. Best way to do so is to let him know KP will be the "Main man"(Smart move) Reason why Melo will be dealt. Hardaway signing was a step in getting KP some protection from double teams.(Right idea)Think Houston will be the new GM. Because he has been a good company man. BUT like I keep saying...until the top is gutted, we will always be in trouble and just another fortune 500 company full of execs that only care about self preservation, golden parachutes, NOI's and care very little about winning a chip.
That's a great assumption but we'll never know the truth so what's it really matter??
Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:If Phil had spent the $300 mil that went to Melo, Noah, Lee, and Thomas intelligently, he'd still be here.
That is BS. The media had it in for him as soon as he signed on. Witch hunt is a witch hunt everything was a negative story on Phil and they piled on more and more.
The bad signings came first. Then the negative stories. You make bad decisions, you get bad news coverage. If you tweet dumb shit, that only makes it worse.
