Knicks · Hold up! Kyrie just requested a trade!!! (page 16)
gunsnewing wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:This is where Mills and Perry prove their worth. Do they starphuck yet again and drain us of assets, or do they play this right and take Irving for Melo + spare parts (Lee, KOQ, Mindy, etc.)? Every single time we are on the path to a youth rebuild, we muck it up. My main concern is if Kyrie - who wants to be 'the man', and does not want to play with one of the greats - turns into a Melo-Rose 2.0 ball stopping ME player. WE're trying to build a TEAM here!I'd be concerned if we didn't already have KP in place. You don't build a team around 8th picks. Knicks should know.
Worst case scenario it blows up and we luck out in the lottery this time. And become a triple threat team that's young and still growing to its full potential.
We already blew yet another chance to build a contender through the draft alone. The key is to put together a talented young championship caliber core.
Not to mention marquee talent will come here, Irving has weight around the league no one is coming to play with Frank
HofstraBBall wrote:Yeah, there's more to the story than not wanting to play with Lebron.Welpee wrote:Rookie wrote:The odd thing here is that if Kyrie waits 1 more year, he likely gets what he wants, his own team, and he is still elligable for a super max. This just reaks like much to do about nothing. Even if Kyrie is impatient, there is no incentive for Cleveland to accomodate him unless they get everything they want in a trade which would be draft picks, players and cap relief.I think the unspoken part of this situation is Irving probably wants to get the heck out of Cleveland, the city. Can't say it publicly without alienating the fans so he floats this Lebron stuff. Like you said, if its about being in the alpha dog role all he has to do is wait a year and he's Westbrook minus Durant.Time to get back to the dulldrums of summer in the NBA. This ain't happening people.
Or he is tired of Gilbert and the lack of front office. Believe they gave him a different story on their plans for him, at signing.
Then brought in LBJ and forgot about those conversations.
Rookie wrote:Because keeping an unhappy player doesn't accomplish those goals either.HofstraBBall wrote:Welpee wrote:Rookie wrote:The odd thing here is that if Kyrie waits 1 more year, he likely gets what he wants, his own team, and he is still elligable for a super max. This just reaks like much to do about nothing. Even if Kyrie is impatient, there is no incentive for Cleveland to accomodate him unless they get everything they want in a trade which would be draft picks, players and cap relief.I think the unspoken part of this situation is Irving probably wants to get the heck out of Cleveland, the city. Can't say it publicly without alienating the fans so he floats this Lebron stuff. Like you said, if its about being in the alpha dog role all he has to do is wait a year and he's Westbrook minus Durant.Time to get back to the dulldrums of summer in the NBA. This ain't happening people.
Or he is tired of Gilbert and the lack of front office. Believe they gave him a different story on their plans for him, at signing.
Then brought in LBJ and forgot about those conversations.Cleveland is going to want a package that either puts them back on par with GS or sets them up for the future. Why would they settle for less?
Jmpasq wrote:Comparing 18 year old Frank to a 26 year old Kidd? Or are you comparing 18 year old Frank with 18 year old Kidd? Frank is likely a totally different player than Kidd. I would be satisfied if Frank became some form of a modern day Dennis Johnson.Bonn1997 wrote:I haven't gone through all 12 pages and don't know how much of this has been said but there are several reasons why I think Irving is going to cost a fortune - way more than just Melo if Melo even agrees to a trade there.1 - A 24 year old all-star coming off a strong season is going to cost more than a 32 year old coming off a weaker season automatically.
2 - Irving has a bigger list of teams he's willing to play for and there are 29 teams Cleveland could trade him to since he has no NTC.
3 - We'd probably want Irving more than they'd want Melo. Do they really need three all-star forwards? They can get a younger, better player who fits their roster both now and in the long-term in case Lebron leaves better than Melo does.
4 - They probably realize they can't win a championship with Melo instead of Irving. They're just a weaker, less balanced team than the one that lost last year.If the trade was just Melo for Irving or something close to that, sure I'd do it. If we're giving up a fortune to get Irving, no thanks.
Whats a fortune people wont part with Frank which is ridiculous. Someone actually said Frank was a better version than Jason Kidd. I'm sorry I've watched Frank play and I never once seen the court vision Kidd had. I think the kids tape is pretty ordinary, I dont think he was a top 10 pick
dwiley20 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:dwiley20 wrote:You crazy if you would include Frank N.Why? You really think Frank will be better than Kyrie, whats the odds of that?
Jason Kidd but better
This is ridiculous, Please go ahead and show some evidence in Franks tape he has anywhere near the vision Jason Kidd had. Maybe if we drafted Ball and you said that I could hold back the laughter but that is borderline trolling making a comment like that
Welpee wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Comparing 18 year old Frank to a 26 year old Kidd? Or are you comparing 18 year old Frank with 18 year old Kidd? Frank is likely a totally different player than Kidd. I would be satisfied if Frank became some form of a modern day Dennis Johnson.Bonn1997 wrote:I haven't gone through all 12 pages and don't know how much of this has been said but there are several reasons why I think Irving is going to cost a fortune - way more than just Melo if Melo even agrees to a trade there.1 - A 24 year old all-star coming off a strong season is going to cost more than a 32 year old coming off a weaker season automatically.
2 - Irving has a bigger list of teams he's willing to play for and there are 29 teams Cleveland could trade him to since he has no NTC.
3 - We'd probably want Irving more than they'd want Melo. Do they really need three all-star forwards? They can get a younger, better player who fits their roster both now and in the long-term in case Lebron leaves better than Melo does.
4 - They probably realize they can't win a championship with Melo instead of Irving. They're just a weaker, less balanced team than the one that lost last year.If the trade was just Melo for Irving or something close to that, sure I'd do it. If we're giving up a fortune to get Irving, no thanks.
Whats a fortune people wont part with Frank which is ridiculous. Someone actually said Frank was a better version than Jason Kidd. I'm sorry I've watched Frank play and I never once seen the court vision Kidd had. I think the kids tape is pretty ordinary, I dont think he was a top 10 pick
18, Franks high dribble and lack of explosion really bothers me. He looks like a very skilled 2.
Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:One big difference between Marbury and Irving: when Marbury arrived he was on his fourth team by age 26. And pretty much each team he left got better after his departure. On the other hand, Jason Kidd had a similar career path but teams tended to get better when he arrived.TPercy wrote:Marbury and Melo are nowhere near kyrie.Kyrie is better than Marbury but I don't think the difference is huge. I think Marbury in his prime with LeBron and Love (hypothetically if the ages worked) could have won 1 championship in 3 years too.
OK but team wins isn't necessarily the best way to evaluate one player. How many of Marbury's teams were as bad as Kyrie's team was every year before LeBron came?
this is the REAL Kyrie Irving. He’s selfish ballhog who is more concerned with his stats and endorsements then winning.Come on…let’s be real here…we’ve all been watching him show the SAME attitude on the court since he first stepped into the league.
First things first…he’s an amazing one-on-one talent. Possibly one of the top 5 to 10 one-on-one guys the NBA has ever seen…yes…EVER.
He’s also a guy who does almost NOTHING else. He doesn’t make his teammates better…he plays ZERO defense…and doesn’t pass the ball.
We need to remember this is ALL about Kyrie…because I already know that the fingers will start to point at Gilbert and the Cavs front office. Per Windy’s reporting, this doesn’t appear to stem from that. It appears to stem from Kyrie wanting to be the "focal point".
It’s not the Cavs…it’s Kyrie deciding that he doesn’t want to play with the 2nd best player of ALL TIME. I’m fine with it…go be Iverson 2.0.
This is a Shaq-Kobe thing…and it’s sad.
Posted by CoachEd on Jul 21, 2017 | 2:30 PM
Best to say NO.
knickinthehead wrote:martin wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://mobile.twitter.com/xOrtiz4x/status/888497752346374144/actions
Click here to view the TweetThat's a bit of silliness, you can explore both at the same time
Not If they plan on having Irving and Carmelo on the team together and try to compete next year? I like It!
So Frank plus an endless supply of unprotected 1st round picks and we continue to be subjected to Meloball?
Jmpasq wrote:Welpee wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Comparing 18 year old Frank to a 26 year old Kidd? Or are you comparing 18 year old Frank with 18 year old Kidd? Frank is likely a totally different player than Kidd. I would be satisfied if Frank became some form of a modern day Dennis Johnson.Bonn1997 wrote:I haven't gone through all 12 pages and don't know how much of this has been said but there are several reasons why I think Irving is going to cost a fortune - way more than just Melo if Melo even agrees to a trade there.1 - A 24 year old all-star coming off a strong season is going to cost more than a 32 year old coming off a weaker season automatically.
2 - Irving has a bigger list of teams he's willing to play for and there are 29 teams Cleveland could trade him to since he has no NTC.
3 - We'd probably want Irving more than they'd want Melo. Do they really need three all-star forwards? They can get a younger, better player who fits their roster both now and in the long-term in case Lebron leaves better than Melo does.
4 - They probably realize they can't win a championship with Melo instead of Irving. They're just a weaker, less balanced team than the one that lost last year.If the trade was just Melo for Irving or something close to that, sure I'd do it. If we're giving up a fortune to get Irving, no thanks.
Whats a fortune people wont part with Frank which is ridiculous. Someone actually said Frank was a better version than Jason Kidd. I'm sorry I've watched Frank play and I never once seen the court vision Kidd had. I think the kids tape is pretty ordinary, I dont think he was a top 10 pick
18, Franks high dribble and lack of explosion really bothers me. He looks like a very skilled 2
I noticed that too. He has to do a lot of work to lower his dribble. I think as his body matures he will gain some explosiveness. If he plays like he did during the under 18 Game, then he is going to be like a taller, better version of George Hill.
Now about this Irving thing, I would offer the Cavs Melo and a future 1st round pick for Irving and we can take back Shumbert's bad contract. I might include Frank, if the future 1st rounder is lottery protected. Irving is that good a player and a team of Irving, Hardaway, Thomas, KP, and Willy would be solid (although potentially weakndefensively). I think only Boston would be clearly better in the East.
Bonn1997 wrote:Serious question. Is Irving even a PG? He can play PG if LeBron is on the team but he's kind of like a 6'3" SG.
Oh no we would have a 2 guard that averages 25 and 6. Now the Hardaway contract looks worse if we get Irving. We would be able to lure a big ticket FA with Irving and Porzingis but guess what Hardaway is stuck on this roster for 4 years
TheGame wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Welpee wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Comparing 18 year old Frank to a 26 year old Kidd? Or are you comparing 18 year old Frank with 18 year old Kidd? Frank is likely a totally different player than Kidd. I would be satisfied if Frank became some form of a modern day Dennis Johnson.Bonn1997 wrote:I haven't gone through all 12 pages and don't know how much of this has been said but there are several reasons why I think Irving is going to cost a fortune - way more than just Melo if Melo even agrees to a trade there.1 - A 24 year old all-star coming off a strong season is going to cost more than a 32 year old coming off a weaker season automatically.
2 - Irving has a bigger list of teams he's willing to play for and there are 29 teams Cleveland could trade him to since he has no NTC.
3 - We'd probably want Irving more than they'd want Melo. Do they really need three all-star forwards? They can get a younger, better player who fits their roster both now and in the long-term in case Lebron leaves better than Melo does.
4 - They probably realize they can't win a championship with Melo instead of Irving. They're just a weaker, less balanced team than the one that lost last year.If the trade was just Melo for Irving or something close to that, sure I'd do it. If we're giving up a fortune to get Irving, no thanks.
Whats a fortune people wont part with Frank which is ridiculous. Someone actually said Frank was a better version than Jason Kidd. I'm sorry I've watched Frank play and I never once seen the court vision Kidd had. I think the kids tape is pretty ordinary, I dont think he was a top 10 pick
18, Franks high dribble and lack of explosion really bothers me. He looks like a very skilled 2I noticed that too. He has to do a lot of work to lower his dribble. I think as his body matures he will gain some explosiveness. If he plays like he did during the under 18 Game, then he is going to be like a taller, better version of George Hill.
Now about this Irving thing, I would offer the Cavs Melo and a future 1st round pick for Irving and we can take back Shumbert's bad contract. I might include Frank, if the future 1st rounder is lottery protected. Irving is that good a player and a team of Irving, Hardaway, Thomas, KP, and Willy would be solid (although potentially weakndefensively). I think only Boston would be clearly better in the East.
I think he is worth Melo and one unprotected lottery pick. I hesitate at 2 but I think Cleveland will want 2 picks. Maybe we could do a swap of picks that converts to a 2nd or something. I think posters underestimate how Irving paired with Porzingis can make us attractive to FA's. Its to bad we have dead weight in Noah, we should look to move Lee for an expiring to gain cap room if this trade goes down. We will still need a very good 3 to compete
Jmpasq wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Serious question. Is Irving even a PG? He can play PG if LeBron is on the team but he's kind of like a 6'3" SG.
Oh no we would have a 2 guard that averages 25 and 6. Now the Hardaway contract looks worse if we get Irving. We would be able to lure a big ticket FA with Irving and Porzingis but guess what Hardaway is stuck on this roster for 4 years
Eh, you could use that reasoning to never sign anyone. Not sure Kyrie is actually good enough to attract a star. You're probably just as likely to trade for a star as to sign an FA star and Hardaway is a trade piece in that scenario or a moveable contract if we need to clear cap space.
newyorknewyork wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:reub wrote:LeBron wouldn't tolerate Melo's lazy ass defense and selfish offense. Cleveland is not for Melo.I think melo is much better with Lebron.
He would be amazing.
He'd be better than here but he's still not as good a player as Irving and their roster is balanced poorly with 3 all-star forwards. I think there's a big risk Cleveland would underachieve and then things start to get ugly.Yea but they also get a draft pick or two. Also in order for Cleveland to really complete with golden state there best chances are love at the 5 melo at the 4 and lebron at point forward .
Love's defense is way worse at center. This creates problems for them. I'm not sure if Love goes to center or LeBron plays in the backcourt.They would have to trade Kevin Love. Probably to Phoenix for Bledsoe, Warren & Chriss. Plus the assets the would get from the Knicks in any trade.
No way would they get Bledsoe, Warren and Chris for just Love.
Bonn1997 wrote:Serious question. Is Irving even a PG? He can play PG if LeBron is on the team but he's kind of like a 6'3" SG.
AGREE..... Kyrie is definitely a 2 in a pg's body, He does have some floor vision, definitely a second option for him.
Jmpasq wrote:Not that I'm comparing the two, but Magic had a high dribble too.Welpee wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Comparing 18 year old Frank to a 26 year old Kidd? Or are you comparing 18 year old Frank with 18 year old Kidd? Frank is likely a totally different player than Kidd. I would be satisfied if Frank became some form of a modern day Dennis Johnson.Bonn1997 wrote:I haven't gone through all 12 pages and don't know how much of this has been said but there are several reasons why I think Irving is going to cost a fortune - way more than just Melo if Melo even agrees to a trade there.1 - A 24 year old all-star coming off a strong season is going to cost more than a 32 year old coming off a weaker season automatically.
2 - Irving has a bigger list of teams he's willing to play for and there are 29 teams Cleveland could trade him to since he has no NTC.
3 - We'd probably want Irving more than they'd want Melo. Do they really need three all-star forwards? They can get a younger, better player who fits their roster both now and in the long-term in case Lebron leaves better than Melo does.
4 - They probably realize they can't win a championship with Melo instead of Irving. They're just a weaker, less balanced team than the one that lost last year.If the trade was just Melo for Irving or something close to that, sure I'd do it. If we're giving up a fortune to get Irving, no thanks.
Whats a fortune people wont part with Frank which is ridiculous. Someone actually said Frank was a better version than Jason Kidd. I'm sorry I've watched Frank play and I never once seen the court vision Kidd had. I think the kids tape is pretty ordinary, I dont think he was a top 10 pick
18, Franks high dribble and lack of explosion really bothers me. He looks like a very skilled 2.
Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, but at some point trends are no longer a coincidence. I'm not saying Kyrie = Marbury. Just the opposite. Marbury had proven he didn't improve teams when he arrived here that's why I don't think the comparison is valid.Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:One big difference between Marbury and Irving: when Marbury arrived he was on his fourth team by age 26. And pretty much each team he left got better after his departure. On the other hand, Jason Kidd had a similar career path but teams tended to get better when he arrived.TPercy wrote:Marbury and Melo are nowhere near kyrie.Kyrie is better than Marbury but I don't think the difference is huge. I think Marbury in his prime with LeBron and Love (hypothetically if the ages worked) could have won 1 championship in 3 years too.
OK but team wins isn't necessarily the best way to evaluate one player. How many of Marbury's teams were as bad as Kyrie's team was every year before LeBron came?
Welpee wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Not that I'm comparing the two, but Magic had a high dribble too.Welpee wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Comparing 18 year old Frank to a 26 year old Kidd? Or are you comparing 18 year old Frank with 18 year old Kidd? Frank is likely a totally different player than Kidd. I would be satisfied if Frank became some form of a modern day Dennis Johnson.Bonn1997 wrote:I haven't gone through all 12 pages and don't know how much of this has been said but there are several reasons why I think Irving is going to cost a fortune - way more than just Melo if Melo even agrees to a trade there.1 - A 24 year old all-star coming off a strong season is going to cost more than a 32 year old coming off a weaker season automatically.
2 - Irving has a bigger list of teams he's willing to play for and there are 29 teams Cleveland could trade him to since he has no NTC.
3 - We'd probably want Irving more than they'd want Melo. Do they really need three all-star forwards? They can get a younger, better player who fits their roster both now and in the long-term in case Lebron leaves better than Melo does.
4 - They probably realize they can't win a championship with Melo instead of Irving. They're just a weaker, less balanced team than the one that lost last year.If the trade was just Melo for Irving or something close to that, sure I'd do it. If we're giving up a fortune to get Irving, no thanks.
Whats a fortune people wont part with Frank which is ridiculous. Someone actually said Frank was a better version than Jason Kidd. I'm sorry I've watched Frank play and I never once seen the court vision Kidd had. I think the kids tape is pretty ordinary, I dont think he was a top 10 pick
18, Franks high dribble and lack of explosion really bothers me. He looks like a very skilled 2.
He was 6'9"
Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, but at some point trends are no longer a coincidence. I'm not saying Kyrie = Marbury. Just the opposite. Marbury had proven he didn't improve teams when he arrived here that's why I don't think the comparison is valid.Welpee wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:One big difference between Marbury and Irving: when Marbury arrived he was on his fourth team by age 26. And pretty much each team he left got better after his departure. On the other hand, Jason Kidd had a similar career path but teams tended to get better when he arrived.TPercy wrote:Marbury and Melo are nowhere near kyrie.Kyrie is better than Marbury but I don't think the difference is huge. I think Marbury in his prime with LeBron and Love (hypothetically if the ages worked) could have won 1 championship in 3 years too.
OK but team wins isn't necessarily the best way to evaluate one player. How many of Marbury's teams were as bad as Kyrie's team was every year before LeBron came?
I dont get how saying Kyries team won 30 games before Lebron is even a valid critique. The guy was in what his 3rd year, thats like saying Porzingis sucks if we got Kyrie and they won 42 games. You could say before Kyrie Porzingis wasn't shit he coudnt even make the playoffs.