Knicks · So you're tellin me Lee, KOQ, Lance and kuz (page 2)

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Do any of these guys have any value. I can't understand why any of these guys can't be package for an upgrade.

Who do you think the Knicks can get?

I have no idea what mills and perry are up to, for all i know they could be holding them as part of a melo package, which is what i thought they had plan to do as far as acquiring a (better than sessions) pg

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:This was correct roster to to get to the lottery.
We should be even better this year and hopefully will get another young talent.
This was a plan all along and we should continue with it for another 1-2 years.
Then we will have assets to stay and form a Team or trade to do same.

I thought a player becomes a asset when he and his team performs well.

Think about it, if we win 20 something games this yr, how would that raise KP's value, would you still consider KP a true franchise player.

Why does his value need raising if the Knicks intend to keep him?

His value rising means 2 things 1)his game has improved 2)he's making others around him better

Ewing carried the knicks from DAY 1, which is why he lasted 14 yrs on the same team.

You must be trolling. No real Knick fan could be this ignorant.

Knicks record his first 3 seasons.

23-59 (50 GP)
24-58 (63 GP)
33-44

For good measure, they went 39-43 in '91-92.

Kind of like we haven't had a PG who had as many assists as Rose since Mark Jackson. 1248 has "alternate facts"

I said Irving, i didn't say rose at all.

I didn't say anything about the knicks record, i said he carried the knicks, he was their best player from day 1.

Sounds like your the ignorant one trolling, the knicks got better every year, and he was the main reason,

This sounds like a interesting discussion. Can you detail the improvements Ewing made on his teammates to account for that one extra win between his rookie and second year ... I mean besides the 13 extra games he played?

this honestly has to be one of the dumber posts on the forum. conrgrats knicks 1248, you were good for SOMETHING.

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:This was correct roster to to get to the lottery.
We should be even better this year and hopefully will get another young talent.
This was a plan all along and we should continue with it for another 1-2 years.
Then we will have assets to stay and form a Team or trade to do same.

I thought a player becomes a asset when he and his team performs well.

Think about it, if we win 20 something games this yr, how would that raise KP's value, would you still consider KP a true franchise player.

Why does his value need raising if the Knicks intend to keep him?

His value rising means 2 things 1)his game has improved 2)he's making others around him better

Ewing carried the knicks from DAY 1, which is why he lasted 14 yrs on the same team.

You must be trolling. No real Knick fan could be this ignorant.

Knicks record his first 3 seasons.

23-59 (50 GP)
24-58 (63 GP)
33-44

For good measure, they went 39-43 in '91-92.

Kind of like we haven't had a PG who had as many assists as Rose since Mark Jackson. 1248 has "alternate facts"

I said Irving, i didn't say rose at all.

I didn't say anything about the knicks record, i said he carried the knicks, he was their best player from day 1.

Sounds like your the ignorant one trolling, the knicks got better every year, and he was the main reason, that's franchise material. what a weak attempt at trying to discredit me by twisting my words.

I can't believe you are sitting there acting like KP show any improvement from the previous yr. It's not a knock on kp either because he has plenty of potential.

My whole point is that the bull sht players we have around kp, his growth will be at a turtles pace. I also think he needs a coach like Mark jackson, the guy who set the foundation for the GSW.

Sorry I typed the wrong name. Yeah, you said Kyrie and you were terribly wrong. I'm not sure if your comments after the 2nd line are directed at me. I don't think they relate to anything I said.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:This was correct roster to to get to the lottery.
We should be even better this year and hopefully will get another young talent.
This was a plan all along and we should continue with it for another 1-2 years.
Then we will have assets to stay and form a Team or trade to do same.

I thought a player becomes a asset when he and his team performs well.

Think about it, if we win 20 something games this yr, how would that raise KP's value, would you still consider KP a true franchise player.

Why does his value need raising if the Knicks intend to keep him?

His value rising means 2 things 1)his game has improved 2)he's making others around him better

Ewing carried the knicks from DAY 1, which is why he lasted 14 yrs on the same team.

You must be trolling. No real Knick fan could be this ignorant.

Knicks record his first 3 seasons.

23-59 (50 GP)
24-58 (63 GP)
33-44

For good measure, they went 39-43 in '91-92.

Kind of like we haven't had a PG who had as many assists as Rose since Mark Jackson. 1248 has "alternate facts"

I said Irving, i didn't say rose at all.

I didn't say anything about the knicks record, i said he carried the knicks, he was their best player from day 1.

Sounds like your the ignorant one trolling, the knicks got better every year, and he was the main reason, that's franchise material. what a weak attempt at trying to discredit me by twisting my words.

I can't believe you are sitting there acting like KP show any improvement from the previous yr. It's not a knock on kp either because he has plenty of potential.

My whole point is that the bull sht players we have around kp, his growth will be at a turtles pace. I also think he needs a coach like Mark jackson, the guy who set the foundation for the GSW.

Sorry I typed the wrong name. Yeah, you said Kyrie and you were terribly wrong. I'm not sure if your comments after the 2nd line are directed at me. I don't think they relate to anything I said.

no that was for knickoftime of time.

But how am I wrong about Irvings assist, he avg roughly 6ast, who was the last pg to do that for the knicks?

Aside from that, this thread was really about the players I mention. IDK if it was the triangle, the off court drama, rambis, JH, PHIL, the fact of the matter is, it doesn't appear this players were really any good to begin with, and I was super optimistic coming into last season. It was to the point I didn't this ROSE's "super Team comment" wasn't to far fetch.

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:This was correct roster to to get to the lottery.
We should be even better this year and hopefully will get another young talent.
This was a plan all along and we should continue with it for another 1-2 years.
Then we will have assets to stay and form a Team or trade to do same.

I thought a player becomes a asset when he and his team performs well.

Think about it, if we win 20 something games this yr, how would that raise KP's value, would you still consider KP a true franchise player.

Why does his value need raising if the Knicks intend to keep him?

His value rising means 2 things 1)his game has improved 2)he's making others around him better

Ewing carried the knicks from DAY 1, which is why he lasted 14 yrs on the same team.

You must be trolling. No real Knick fan could be this ignorant.

Knicks record his first 3 seasons.

23-59 (50 GP)
24-58 (63 GP)
33-44

For good measure, they went 39-43 in '91-92.

Kind of like we haven't had a PG who had as many assists as Rose since Mark Jackson. 1248 has "alternate facts"

I said Irving, i didn't say rose at all.

I didn't say anything about the knicks record, i said he carried the knicks, he was their best player from day 1.

Sounds like your the ignorant one trolling, the knicks got better every year, and he was the main reason, that's franchise material. what a weak attempt at trying to discredit me by twisting my words.

I can't believe you are sitting there acting like KP show any improvement from the previous yr. It's not a knock on kp either because he has plenty of potential.

My whole point is that the bull sht players we have around kp, his growth will be at a turtles pace. I also think he needs a coach like Mark jackson, the guy who set the foundation for the GSW.

Sorry I typed the wrong name. Yeah, you said Kyrie and you were terribly wrong. I'm not sure if your comments after the 2nd line are directed at me. I don't think they relate to anything I said.

no that was for knickoftime of time.

But how am I wrong about Irvings assist, he avg roughly 6ast, who was the last pg to do that for the knicks?

You said none since Mark Jackson. I spent a few seconds looking into it and gave you four (Marbury, Lin, Felton, Duhon) in that thread since Mark Jackson who averaged more assists than Kyrie. Frankly, 5.8 assists is terrible for a PG who plays significant minutes. The only way a PG is going to have less assists than that is if he doesn't play many minutes or is a terrible passer. Kyrie is really more like an SG with some passing skills who is trapped in a PG's body.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:This was correct roster to to get to the lottery.
We should be even better this year and hopefully will get another young talent.
This was a plan all along and we should continue with it for another 1-2 years.
Then we will have assets to stay and form a Team or trade to do same.

I thought a player becomes a asset when he and his team performs well.

Think about it, if we win 20 something games this yr, how would that raise KP's value, would you still consider KP a true franchise player.

Why does his value need raising if the Knicks intend to keep him?

His value rising means 2 things 1)his game has improved 2)he's making others around him better

Ewing carried the knicks from DAY 1, which is why he lasted 14 yrs on the same team.

You must be trolling. No real Knick fan could be this ignorant.

Knicks record his first 3 seasons.

23-59 (50 GP)
24-58 (63 GP)
33-44

For good measure, they went 39-43 in '91-92.

Kind of like we haven't had a PG who had as many assists as Rose since Mark Jackson. 1248 has "alternate facts"

I said Irving, i didn't say rose at all.

I didn't say anything about the knicks record, i said he carried the knicks, he was their best player from day 1.

Sounds like your the ignorant one trolling, the knicks got better every year, and he was the main reason, that's franchise material. what a weak attempt at trying to discredit me by twisting my words.

I can't believe you are sitting there acting like KP show any improvement from the previous yr. It's not a knock on kp either because he has plenty of potential.

My whole point is that the bull sht players we have around kp, his growth will be at a turtles pace. I also think he needs a coach like Mark jackson, the guy who set the foundation for the GSW.

Sorry I typed the wrong name. Yeah, you said Kyrie and you were terribly wrong. I'm not sure if your comments after the 2nd line are directed at me. I don't think they relate to anything I said.

no that was for knickoftime of time.

But how am I wrong about Irvings assist, he avg roughly 6ast, who was the last pg to do that for the knicks?

You said none since Mark Jackson. I spent a few seconds looking into it and gave you four (Marbury, Lin, Felton, Duhon) in that thread since Mark Jackson who averaged more assists than Kyrie. Frankly, 5.8 assists is terrible for a PG who plays significant minutes. The only way a PG is going to have less assists than that is if he doesn't play many minutes or is a terrible passer. Kyrie is really more like an SG with some passing skills who is trapped in a PG's body.

I disagree with this notion a bit. Kyrie playing with Lebron is going to miss a lot of actual Assists since Lebron is making plays with the starters and Kyrie is more off the ball and only really plays on the ball when Lebron isn't on the floor. That said when you look at the actual passing stats Kyrie is passing more than people may realize.

OK but there's a sample of seasons from before LeBron. Granted he was young then but are you really denying that his passing skills are well below a typical PG's?

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Do any of these guys have any value. I can't understand why any of these guys can't be package for an upgrade.

Who do you think the Knicks can get?

I have no idea what mills and perry are up to, for all i know they could be holding them as part of a melo package, which is what i thought they had plan to do as far as acquiring a (better than sessions) pg

Nah man who do you think the Knicks can get? Mills and Perry are stupid.... they need to know whay you would do since you can't understand why they can't upgrade the roster

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Do any of these guys have any value. I can't understand why any of these guys can't be package for an upgrade.

Who do you think the Knicks can get?

I have no idea what mills and perry are up to, for all i know they could be holding them as part of a melo package, which is what i thought they had plan to do as far as acquiring a (better than sessions) pg

Nah man who do you think the Knicks can get? Mills and Perry are stupid.... they need to know whay you would do since you can't understand why they can't upgrade the roster

It's too late now, the draft has pass, and Rubio has been traded, but something would have popped off before the draft.

knicks1248 wrote:Do any of these guys have any value. I can't understand why any of these guys can't be package for an upgrade.

To me it seems like everyone's value on this team took a major hit last season, not just melo.

1)Jennings just signed a 1 yr deal in china
2)Rose took a 90% pay cut at 27 yrs old
3)the rockets offering trash for melo (who was a all star last season)
4)Noah had other offers besides the knicks last season, but we signed him to a NTC with out an actual NTC
5)lee also had multiple teams interested last off season
6)kuz name hasn't even come up in any conversation whatsoever and he'll be 28 this yr
7)Lance- see kuz
8)KOQ seems like a throw in regarding any trade

What does that say about the roster we constructed last yr?

Before the draft, you aren't just trading a player away, you are asking a team facing free agency to take in the opportunity cost lost by filling that cap space in with the trade.

For example, if the Knicks trade Courtney Lee this offseason for a couple of draft picks and into another teams open cap space, that team has to ask itself - Will I get a better return just using those picks to draft cost controlled players AND THEN go into free agency and spend that 12 million a year on someone I can sign without having to give any compensation at all to his previous team?

People here, some, kept saying, trade Melo to the Celtics for Marcus Smart and a pick . That open cap space was used for Gordon Hayward. By trading for Melo, hypothetically, the Celtics would be losing a chance on Hayward. Anyone here would trade Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and a 1st for Melo if Melo was on another roster?

Noah is a dead contract. It would take positive assets, likely multiple, to get his bad contract off the roster.

Lance Thomas is another dead contract. It doesn't get much press because Noah's is so horrible. Thomas is a 12th to 15th man making 7th to 8th man money. His contract makes no sense at all. I think it gets a bit of a pass because Thomas is actually well liked around the league and in the media.

Lee's contract might be movable if it was shorter. But it's not. A team would have to give up cap space in the preseason, then give up positive assets to get him on the roster. For a guy who is going to decline the last two years of that deal.

Knicks should have just kept Jerian Grant and Robin Lopez. I recognize it's not likely Grant will pan out, but the ripple effect of Rose/Noah gutted this team.

Jackson and Mills tried to trade everyone but Zinger and Hernangomez last year. And they couldn't. Jackson gave up 5 years of the Knicks future for a half hearted chance at the 8th seed for one year, just to try to salvage his pride and "legacy" before he got axed.

Compare Robin Lopez's signing to the others and you'll start to see why no one else wants the current Knicks roster in trade.

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Do any of these guys have any value. I can't understand why any of these guys can't be package for an upgrade.

To me it seems like everyone's value on this team took a major hit last season, not just melo.

1)Jennings just signed a 1 yr deal in china
2)Rose took a 90% pay cut at 27 yrs old
3)the rockets offering trash for melo (who was a all star last season)
4)Noah had other offers besides the knicks last season, but we signed him to a NTC with out an actual NTC
5)lee also had multiple teams interested last off season
6)kuz name hasn't even come up in any conversation whatsoever and he'll be 28 this yr
7)Lance- see kuz
8)KOQ seems like a throw in regarding any trade

What does that say about the roster we constructed last yr?

Before the draft, you aren't just trading a player away, you are asking a team facing free agency to take in the opportunity cost lost by filling that cap space in with the trade.

For example, if the Knicks trade Courtney Lee this offseason for a couple of draft picks and into another teams open cap space, that team has to ask itself - Will I get a better return just using those picks to draft cost controlled players AND THEN go into free agency and spend that 12 million a year on someone I can sign without having to give any compensation at all to his previous team?

People here, some, kept saying, trade Melo to the Celtics for Marcus Smart and a pick . That open cap space was used for Gordon Hayward. By trading for Melo, hypothetically, the Celtics would be losing a chance on Hayward. Anyone here would trade Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and a 1st for Melo if Melo was on another roster?

Noah is a dead contract. It would take positive assets, likely multiple, to get his bad contract off the roster.

Lance Thomas is another dead contract. It doesn't get much press because Noah's is so horrible. Thomas is a 12th to 15th man making 7th to 8th man money. His contract makes no sense at all. I think it gets a bit of a pass because Thomas is actually well liked around the league and in the media.

Lee's contract might be movable if it was shorter. But it's not. A team would have to give up cap space in the preseason, then give up positive assets to get him on the roster. For a guy who is going to decline the last two years of that deal.

Knicks should have just kept Jerian Grant and Robin Lopez. I recognize it's not likely Grant will pan out, but the ripple effect of Rose/Noah gutted this team.

Jackson and Mills tried to trade everyone but Zinger and Hernangomez last year. And they couldn't. Jackson gave up 5 years of the Knicks future for a half hearted chance at the 8th seed for one year, just to try to salvage his pride and "legacy" before he got axed.

Compare Robin Lopez's signing to the others and you'll start to see why no one else wants the current Knicks roster in trade.

Knick are at very beginning of the rebuild.
We just get some young pieces which can became an assets.
And a bunch of junk which cannot bring anything back.
WE have to continue to lose, wait for all bad contracts to expire and collect more assets.
It is not like this is a wise or stupid thing to do. It is the only thing we can do.
Even Dolan and Mills finally get it.
But a bunch of fans still didn't get it and continue to clamor for win now regardless of the reality.

Bonn1997 wrote:OK but there's a sample of seasons from before LeBron. Granted he was young then but are you really denying that his passing skills are well below a typical PG's?

This is what I don't get, people dismiss Porzingis flaws in his game because he is young, but when it comes to Kyrie, his stats from 3 years ago are treated gospel of the player he is now.

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Do any of these guys have any value. I can't understand why any of these guys can't be package for an upgrade.

To me it seems like everyone's value on this team took a major hit last season, not just melo.

1)Jennings just signed a 1 yr deal in china
2)Rose took a 90% pay cut at 27 yrs old
3)the rockets offering trash for melo (who was a all star last season)
4)Noah had other offers besides the knicks last season, but we signed him to a NTC with out an actual NTC
5)lee also had multiple teams interested last off season
6)kuz name hasn't even come up in any conversation whatsoever and he'll be 28 this yr
7)Lance- see kuz
8)KOQ seems like a throw in regarding any trade

What does that say about the roster we constructed last yr?

Before the draft, you aren't just trading a player away, you are asking a team facing free agency to take in the opportunity cost lost by filling that cap space in with the trade.

For example, if the Knicks trade Courtney Lee this offseason for a couple of draft picks and into another teams open cap space, that team has to ask itself - Will I get a better return just using those picks to draft cost controlled players AND THEN go into free agency and spend that 12 million a year on someone I can sign without having to give any compensation at all to his previous team?

People here, some, kept saying, trade Melo to the Celtics for Marcus Smart and a pick . That open cap space was used for Gordon Hayward. By trading for Melo, hypothetically, the Celtics would be losing a chance on Hayward. Anyone here would trade Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart and a 1st for Melo if Melo was on another roster?

Noah is a dead contract. It would take positive assets, likely multiple, to get his bad contract off the roster.

Lance Thomas is another dead contract. It doesn't get much press because Noah's is so horrible. Thomas is a 12th to 15th man making 7th to 8th man money. His contract makes no sense at all. I think it gets a bit of a pass because Thomas is actually well liked around the league and in the media.

Lee's contract might be movable if it was shorter. But it's not. A team would have to give up cap space in the preseason, then give up positive assets to get him on the roster. For a guy who is going to decline the last two years of that deal.

Knicks should have just kept Jerian Grant and Robin Lopez. I recognize it's not likely Grant will pan out, but the ripple effect of Rose/Noah gutted this team.

Jackson and Mills tried to trade everyone but Zinger and Hernangomez last year. And they couldn't. Jackson gave up 5 years of the Knicks future for a half hearted chance at the 8th seed for one year, just to try to salvage his pride and "legacy" before he got axed.

Compare Robin Lopez's signing to the others and you'll start to see why no one else wants the current Knicks roster in trade.

The Rose trade was really fing stupid, we pissed away a very good asset in Lopez. I still can't believe we gave away assets for a guy who should of been a salary dump. At first I thought it was bad, but not end of the world bad because hey the Knicks opened up minutes for Kp and Willy at the 5 Melo can play the 4 and we can sign a wing with the cap space we saved. Nope Knicks compounded the bad trade with a bad FA signing glutting the team with bigs in a league that went small. That money should of been used on a SF.

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:OK but there's a sample of seasons from before LeBron. Granted he was young then but are you really denying that his passing skills are well below a typical PG's?

This is what I don't get, people dismiss Porzingis flaws in his game because he is young, but when it comes to Kyrie, his stats from 3 years ago are treated gospel of the player he is now.

I wouldnt dismiss either player's stats, and KP's weaknesses are a legitimate topic and perhaps even concern. Normally a sample of 6 seasons in 2 different atmospheres (with and without LeBron) is likely to be much more predictive of future play than a sample of 2 total seasons though.