Knicks · Aldridges offseason rankings, Knicks 24th (page 1)
24. NEW YORK KNICKS
2016-17 RECORD: 31-51, did not make playoffsADDED: G Tim Hardaway, Jr. (four years, $71 million); G Ramon Sessions (one year, $2.3 million); G Frank Ntilikina (No. 8 pick, 2017 Draft); named Steve Mills President of Basketball Operations; hired Scott Perry as General Manager
LOST: G Derrick Rose (signed with Cleveland); G Justin Holiday (signed with Chicago); F Maurice Ndour (waived); F Marshall Plumlee (waived); G Sasha Vujacic (renounced UFA rights); announced Phil Jackson would not return as president of basketball operations
RETAINED: G Ron Baker (two years, $8.8 million)
THE KEY MAN: Mills. Owner Jim Dolan kept his word from all indications and let Jackson run the Knicks without interference. Though Mills has survived numerous changes in management through two tours of duty in New York, this is the first time he’s really in charge of the basketball side of things full-time (he was general manager the last three years, but it was a title without authority; Jackson called all the shots). The expectations in Gotham, are, as ever, outsized, and there are many in the New York media (shocking, I know) that believe Mills, a Princeton grad who played for Pete Carril, is in over his head. How he manages Carmelo Anthony after Jackson’s scorched-earth policy toward the team’s star forward will provide a good indication of whether Mills has the chops to not just survive, but thrive in the high-pressure gig.
1:37Play
How will new GM Scott Perry shape the Knicks' future?
THE SKINNY: Some teams, like the Knicks, really should get an incomplete offseason grade. Because we don’t know yet what the team’s new braintrust will do with Anthony, or if ‘Melo is even willing to listen to their pitch to stay. His open desire to be with Chris Paul and James Harden has made New York’s task at getting anything approaching equal value a near impossibility, but that may be less important than finally turning the page and starting over. The Knicks would not have taken Ntilikina if the new guys were in charge. He was a Jackson pick. But he’s still an 18-year-old who has skills and is worth grooming. They overpaid for Hardaway Jr. based on what he did in Atlanta, but if he turns into your basic 18-20 point scoring two guard upon his return to Gotham, his salary won’t be that far out of line. The bigger question mark is how much Joakim Noah has left; that $18 million per year needs to be on the floor as much as, if not more than, Hardaway.
http://www.nba.com/morning-tip-da-2017-offseason-rankings-bottom-10-teams
CrushAlot wrote:yea thats fair IMO.. kinda whoop de doo until the team on the floor shows anything more than more of the same.
24. NEW YORK KNICKS
2016-17 RECORD: 31-51, did not make playoffsADDED: G Tim Hardaway, Jr. (four years, $71 million); G Ramon Sessions (one year, $2.3 million); G Frank Ntilikina (No. 8 pick, 2017 Draft); named Steve Mills President of Basketball Operations; hired Scott Perry as General Manager
LOST: G Derrick Rose (signed with Cleveland); G Justin Holiday (signed with Chicago); F Maurice Ndour (waived); F Marshall Plumlee (waived); G Sasha Vujacic (renounced UFA rights); announced Phil Jackson would not return as president of basketball operations
RETAINED: G Ron Baker (two years, $8.8 million)
THE KEY MAN: Mills. Owner Jim Dolan kept his word from all indications and let Jackson run the Knicks without interference. Though Mills has survived numerous changes in management through two tours of duty in New York, this is the first time he’s really in charge of the basketball side of things full-time (he was general manager the last three years, but it was a title without authority; Jackson called all the shots). The expectations in Gotham, are, as ever, outsized, and there are many in the New York media (shocking, I know) that believe Mills, a Princeton grad who played for Pete Carril, is in over his head. How he manages Carmelo Anthony after Jackson’s scorched-earth policy toward the team’s star forward will provide a good indication of whether Mills has the chops to not just survive, but thrive in the high-pressure gig.
1:37Play
How will new GM Scott Perry shape the Knicks' future?
THE SKINNY: Some teams, like the Knicks, really should get an incomplete offseason grade. Because we don’t know yet what the team’s new braintrust will do with Anthony, or if ‘Melo is even willing to listen to their pitch to stay. His open desire to be with Chris Paul and James Harden has made New York’s task at getting anything approaching equal value a near impossibility, but that may be less important than finally turning the page and starting over. The Knicks would not have taken Ntilikina if the new guys were in charge. He was a Jackson pick. But he’s still an 18-year-old who has skills and is worth grooming. They overpaid for Hardaway Jr. based on what he did in Atlanta, but if he turns into your basic 18-20 point scoring two guard upon his return to Gotham, his salary won’t be that far out of line. The bigger question mark is how much Joakim Noah has left; that $18 million per year needs to be on the floor as much as, if not more than, Hardaway.
http://www.nba.com/morning-tip-da-2017-offseason-rankings-bottom-10-teams
And what we have is about the same it was so it should be in same win range.
If we get better and will have better record it will be a sign of the progress.
If we get worth and get high pick it also cool as team needs much more work and any help it can get.
Win-Win.
jazz74 wrote:yeah, that is a very fair assessment. thj deal is what sinks us. people think we would have been better if we did nothing. however, his salary isn't that much higher than the league average of starting off guards ( I think it is 15 mill per year) so I am not going crazy about it. he just has to be a little better than what he did last year which is what Aldridge said avg 18 ppg ( which is possible if Anthony is traded)and the deal will look decent.
I don't have a problem with the player or the salary, just the timing of the signing. Hardaway isn't playing a position of immediate need and his signing effectively killed our cap flexibility for the immediate future. The move would have made sense if a Melo move was imminent, but that wasn't close to being the case. I agree that our off-season grade should graded as an "incomplete."
THE SKINNY: Some teams, like the Knicks, really should get an incomplete offseason grade. Because we don’t know yet what the team’s new braintrust will do with Anthony, or if ‘Melo is even willing to listen to their pitch to stay. His open desire to be with Chris Paul and James Harden has made New York’s task at getting anything approaching equal value a near impossibility, but that may be less important than finally turning the page and starting over. The Knicks would not have taken Ntilikina if the new guys were in charge. He was a Jackson pick. But he’s still an 18-year-old who has skills and is worth grooming. They overpaid for Hardaway Jr. based on what he did in Atlanta, but if he turns into your basic 18-20 point scoring two guard upon his return to Gotham, his salary won’t be that far out of line. The bigger question mark is how much Joakim Noah has left; that $18 million per year needs to be on the floor as much as, if not more than, Hardaway.
True that we don't have a full picture yet given no deal for Melo has been made. A deal could significantly change things as we all know. I don't think the Knicks are as concerned with having Melo stay one more year rather than take a bad deal just to "start over".
The drafting of Nitty is a big debate but i'm not so sure that the Knicks would not still have taken Nitty as the best 2 way guard with size as well as high BBIQ. The kid is kind of in a sweet spot in terms of overall ability. Not the scoring guard of a DSJ or Mitchell, but he's got such a great combination of size, length, 3pt shooting, passing. Nitty isn't a high usage player so that fits well with a team concept. He's just now hitting 19 and already has all of that. He could be a guard version of KP in a sense.
Not so concerned with Noah. I think he's a factor but not more important that THJ. When Noah was on the floor he was still able to pass, defend and rebound. By the time he finally gets back on the court I suspect he'll still be able to do those things off the bench. He's going to be here at least one more season IMO. Just need to accept that and move on.
BigDaddyG wrote:jazz74 wrote:yeah, that is a very fair assessment. thj deal is what sinks us. people think we would have been better if we did nothing. however, his salary isn't that much higher than the league average of starting off guards ( I think it is 15 mill per year) so I am not going crazy about it. he just has to be a little better than what he did last year which is what Aldridge said avg 18 ppg ( which is possible if Anthony is traded)and the deal will look decent.I don't have a problem with the player or the salary, just the timing of the signing. Hardaway isn't playing a position of immediate need and his signing effectively killed our cap flexibility for the immediate future. The move would have made sense if a Melo move was imminent, but that wasn't close to being the case. I agree that our off-season grade should graded as an "incomplete."
I agree that the timing was off but that seems to be the story of the knicks off-season which is another reason they probably got a low rating.
jazz74 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:jazz74 wrote:yeah, that is a very fair assessment. thj deal is what sinks us. people think we would have been better if we did nothing. however, his salary isn't that much higher than the league average of starting off guards ( I think it is 15 mill per year) so I am not going crazy about it. he just has to be a little better than what he did last year which is what Aldridge said avg 18 ppg ( which is possible if Anthony is traded)and the deal will look decent.I don't have a problem with the player or the salary, just the timing of the signing. Hardaway isn't playing a position of immediate need and his signing effectively killed our cap flexibility for the immediate future. The move would have made sense if a Melo move was imminent, but that wasn't close to being the case. I agree that our off-season grade should graded as an "incomplete."
I agree that the timing was off but that seems to be the story of the knicks off-season which is another reason they probably got a low rating.
The Timing doesn't really take into account what the Knicks overall plan for this offseason is. They've made a few moves that kind of had a strange feel to them but without knowing how the Knicks see this team being put together it's hard to really judge it by the Timing of the move or what we might think is an area of need or not.
Only the Knicks know what other moves they have in mind as they're making these moves. Without seeing the complete picture any of these moves by themselves could seem off.
nixluva wrote:jazz74 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:jazz74 wrote:yeah, that is a very fair assessment. thj deal is what sinks us. people think we would have been better if we did nothing. however, his salary isn't that much higher than the league average of starting off guards ( I think it is 15 mill per year) so I am not going crazy about it. he just has to be a little better than what he did last year which is what Aldridge said avg 18 ppg ( which is possible if Anthony is traded)and the deal will look decent.I don't have a problem with the player or the salary, just the timing of the signing. Hardaway isn't playing a position of immediate need and his signing effectively killed our cap flexibility for the immediate future. The move would have made sense if a Melo move was imminent, but that wasn't close to being the case. I agree that our off-season grade should graded as an "incomplete."
I agree that the timing was off but that seems to be the story of the knicks off-season which is another reason they probably got a low rating.
The Timing doesn't really take into account what the Knicks overall plan for this offseason is. They've made a few moves that kind of had a strange feel to them but without knowing how the Knicks see this team being put together it's hard to really judge it by the Timing of the move or what we might think is an area of need or not.
Only the Knicks know what other moves they have in mind as they're making these moves. Without seeing the complete picture any of these moves by themselves could seem off.
You're assuming that there was an overall plan when the signing was made. I have a hard time believing that, considering we didn't even have a GM. I can honestly say that I believe moving Melo was more of a priority than bringing THJ in.
BigDaddyG wrote:nixluva wrote:jazz74 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:jazz74 wrote:yeah, that is a very fair assessment. thj deal is what sinks us. people think we would have been better if we did nothing. however, his salary isn't that much higher than the league average of starting off guards ( I think it is 15 mill per year) so I am not going crazy about it. he just has to be a little better than what he did last year which is what Aldridge said avg 18 ppg ( which is possible if Anthony is traded)and the deal will look decent.I don't have a problem with the player or the salary, just the timing of the signing. Hardaway isn't playing a position of immediate need and his signing effectively killed our cap flexibility for the immediate future. The move would have made sense if a Melo move was imminent, but that wasn't close to being the case. I agree that our off-season grade should graded as an "incomplete."
I agree that the timing was off but that seems to be the story of the knicks off-season which is another reason they probably got a low rating.
The Timing doesn't really take into account what the Knicks overall plan for this offseason is. They've made a few moves that kind of had a strange feel to them but without knowing how the Knicks see this team being put together it's hard to really judge it by the Timing of the move or what we might think is an area of need or not.
Only the Knicks know what other moves they have in mind as they're making these moves. Without seeing the complete picture any of these moves by themselves could seem off.
You're assuming that there was an overall plan when the signing was made. I have a hard time believing that, considering we didn't even have a GM. I can honestly say that I believe moving Melo was more of a priority than bringing THJ in.
I think Mills had a plan or set of options to get to where they want the team to be. I think that overall that GOAL is still there and hiring Perry is about executing the plan better but not changing the plan. It's not like they are gonna scrap what they were already doing and bring in a GM that has a completely different plan for the team. Most of the direction of the roster is set in stone aside from the changes that could come from a Melo trade, but that was already factored into whatever plan they had.
reub wrote:This ranking is B.B. (Before Beasley). Everything changes now.
Super Beas and Noah....
