My expectations are reasonable although Im starting to think we may have the goods for a 5-8 seed.
Many more guys to root for. This is what the Rangers did about 10 years ago. We just need to stay away from trading 8 of them for 1 player . Rather create cap space--keep young players and picks.
Have to thank Phil J atleast a bit. While he certainly didnt do wonders in the trade or free agent markets --I think the path he set us on was the right one.
2 things need to happen to help the process out: Trade Melo and come out ahead; can't take a contract like Anderson back and hopefully get a future 1st and 1 solid player. I'd love for the Knicks to do well this next season but another top 1-10 lottery pick with the upside of striking gold would be fantastic for long term.
We shouldn't trade Melo until the winter transfer window. They'll be more cap flexibility then.
Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
knicks1248 wrote:Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
Like what exactly. Go ahead lay them out
meloshouldgo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
Like what exactly. Go ahead lay them out
This team needs at least one more young All Star level talent to add to this core. I would of tanked this season and then went guns blazing the following year. Even if Frank is a high level talent it won't be enough to seriously compete in the future. We need a SF desperately. We don't have one decent one on the roster. Who can defend the 3 or even the 4 very well on this team
As much as I hate tanking. I do agree with Martin that the best bet is to deal Melo for shorterm contracts and a draft pick.
Get a top 6 pick in the 2018 draft.
Your assets in a year
Porzingis
2018 Top 6 pick
Ntilikina
Hernangomez
Draft pick from Melo trade (Whatever we can get)
Hardaway
Dotson (hopeful for him)
You can make a nice move using assets you have to trade for a star player while not having to move KP, Willy, Frank.
I agree Briggs regarding Phil.
He set us up well with KP, Willy, Frank and all our picks moving forward.
Only killer was the Noah contract which I hope will eventully work out.
Beasley is a nice short term grab but only underscores just how badly we will need a legit SF with star power. If the soothsayers are right, and we win 31 - we will have an opportunity to solve that ... it's critical. If Timmy ends up a two way player and Frank ends up a long lock down guy and we pick up a SF who is a legit future All Star
We can do a lot better than 5-8 in the weak East. Baker/Lee/Dotson are the second team rotation. Willy/KP/Frank/ThJr and Beasley for now. They'll only get better.
We are moving in a positive direction and the best we can do is keep adding assets, develop them and it offers us future opportunities either on the court or for trades. This is how Boston got to where it is.
How many years this taking for them? Even this year they mined Fultz for Tatum who may be better longer term AND got another first round pick. They got Crowdr and Isiah Thomas via low profile trades and developed them further. And sIgned Horford and Haywood!!!
They basically hired a coach not ready for the pro's and let him learn. They are very patient!!!1
martin wrote:2 things need to happen to help the process out: Trade Melo and come out ahead; can't take a contract like Anderson back and hopefully get a future 1st and 1 solid player. I'd love for the Knicks to do well this next season but another top 1-10 lottery pick with the upside of striking gold would be fantastic for long term.
If they could end up with a young SF that can actually defend legitimate 3's like Harkless it would be really nice. Then you start to build some depth on the wing. The roster starts to look a lot more balanced. The only problem will be having the very slow flooted frontcourt. I'm not sure how you fix that unless Willy goes to the 2nd unit.
meloshouldgo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
Like what exactly. Go ahead lay them out
Dude we won 31 games last year in one of the most toxic environments in the league, not to mention the ever changing triangle.
Were coming back with primarily the same roster and a upgrade a sg, sf(to replace lance), pg and no triangle, and no meddling president. AT some point we will be able to sign or trade for the wing player/star to replace melo.
WHY would you want your young guys and coaching staff to go through another miserable, depressing, losing culture, bad vibes, low energy, toxic locker room season, only to be rewarded with a role player.
knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
Like what exactly. Go ahead lay them out
Dude we won 31 games last year in one of the most toxic environments in the league, not to mention the ever changing triangle.
Were coming back with primarily the same roster and a upgrade a sg, sf(to replace lance), pg and no triangle, and no meddling president. AT some point we will be able to sign or trade for the wing player/star to replace melo.
WHY would you want your young guys and coaching staff to go through another miserable, depressing, losing culture, bad vibes, low energy, toxic locker room season, only to be rewarded with a role player.
You can have a healthy culture in a growing .400 team that's headed in the right direction or a terrible culture in a team that makes the playoffs. You're confusing two separate issues. The win total doesn't define the culture of the team. The mindset of the players, coaches, and front office does.
I'm not sure we're better than Miami, Detroit, or Charlotte, who finished ahed of us in the standings but missed the playoffs
I'm not sure if we're better than Philly, who finished beneath us
We're probably better than Indy now... I don't know if we're better than Chicago, even without Butler
If we get the #5 seed that will be the happiest I'll ever be eating crow pie, but come one man. This team is a lotto team for sure
SupremeCommander wrote:I'm not sure we're better than Miami, Detroit, or Charlotte, who finished ahed of us in the standings but missed the playoffsI'm not sure if we're better than Philly, who finished beneath us
We're probably better than Indy now... I don't know if we're better than Chicago, even without Butler
If we get the #5 seed that will be the happiest I'll ever be eating crow pie, but come one man. This team is a lotto team for sure
Boston, Cleveland, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte. 7 teams definitely better than us. Detroit will be bad, but maybe good enough to get #8. I think we are 9th best team in the east right now, so i definitely think playoffs is an outside possibility, with the east being so bad. We can get the 8th seed with 37 wins probably.
Knixkik wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I'm not sure we're better than Miami, Detroit, or Charlotte, who finished ahed of us in the standings but missed the playoffsI'm not sure if we're better than Philly, who finished beneath us
We're probably better than Indy now... I don't know if we're better than Chicago, even without Butler
If we get the #5 seed that will be the happiest I'll ever be eating crow pie, but come one man. This team is a lotto team for sure
Boston, Cleveland, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte. 7 teams definitely better than us. Detroit will be bad, but maybe good enough to get #8. I think we are 9th best team in the east right now, so i definitely think playoffs is an outside possibility, with the east being so bad. We can get the 8th seed with 37 wins probably.
that's exactly why I'd prefer to see the team blow it up... increase everyone's - including KP - responsibility, hopefully draft another ace and go from there. I think that Courtney Lee could net us a first. If Lance Thomas has recovered from injury, he might net us a late first, same with Kuz. I don't think that Noah will net us jack squat but don't we have to try and rehab his trade value?? Doesn't that also mean we're more likely to be bad???
Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
Like what exactly. Go ahead lay them out
Dude we won 31 games last year in one of the most toxic environments in the league, not to mention the ever changing triangle.
Were coming back with primarily the same roster and a upgrade a sg, sf(to replace lance), pg and no triangle, and no meddling president. AT some point we will be able to sign or trade for the wing player/star to replace melo.
WHY would you want your young guys and coaching staff to go through another miserable, depressing, losing culture, bad vibes, low energy, toxic locker room season, only to be rewarded with a role player.
You can have a healthy culture in a growing .400 team that's headed in the right direction or a terrible culture in a team that makes the playoffs. You're confusing two separate issues. The win total doesn't define the culture of the team. The mindset of the players, coaches, and front office does.
He wants whats best for his own immediate short term enjoyment. Disguising it as whats best for the Knicks.
Knixkik wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I'm not sure we're better than Miami, Detroit, or Charlotte, who finished ahed of us in the standings but missed the playoffsI'm not sure if we're better than Philly, who finished beneath us
We're probably better than Indy now... I don't know if we're better than Chicago, even without Butler
If we get the #5 seed that will be the happiest I'll ever be eating crow pie, but come one man. This team is a lotto team for sure
Boston, Cleveland, Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte. 7 teams definitely better than us. Detroit will be bad, but maybe good enough to get #8. I think we are 9th best team in the east right now, so i definitely think playoffs is an outside possibility, with the east being so bad. We can get the 8th seed with 37 wins probably.
it is all based on last year performance, but dont forget we have a lot of young and new players who can develop over summer huge steps forward,
BRIGGS wrote:My expectations are reasonable although Im starting to think we may have the goods for a 5-8 seed.Many more guys to root for. This is what the Rangers did about 10 years ago. We just need to stay away from trading 8 of them for 1 player . Rather create cap space--keep young players and picks.
Have to thank Phil J atleast a bit. While he certainly didnt do wonders in the trade or free agent markets --I think the path he set us on was the right one.
So "25 win team at best" plus Ramon Sessions & Michael Beasley equals 5 to 8 seed?
Check.
knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
Like what exactly. Go ahead lay them out
Dude we won 31 games last year in one of the most toxic environments in the league, not to mention the ever changing triangle.
Were coming back with primarily the same roster and a upgrade a sg, sf(to replace lance), pg and no triangle, and no meddling president. AT some point we will be able to sign or trade for the wing player/star to replace melo.
WHY would you want your young guys and coaching staff to go through another miserable, depressing, losing culture, bad vibes, low energy, toxic locker room season, only to be rewarded with a role player.
Here's the issue: Over the last couple years statistic-based models that didn't ask what system the Knicks play, that didn't ask the quality of their environment, pretty much nailed their W-L records. They were successful predicting the Knicks record simply by evaluating the talent the Knicks had on their roster.
This year the same models predict more of the same, like the last two years, independent of their system or environment.
The bottom line is this is a talent-based league above all and the Knicks simply need more high-end talent to be significantly better
A few good videos of KP, top plays by Willy and "Baby Greek Freek" all have us feeling good on a hot sunny day!
If the team cannot compete, then you play the yoots and tank. If KP and Willy are incredible and the chemsitry is there, then was don't tank.
Tank should never be by desigh, it just happens then you give up.
Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Making the playoffs has way more benefits than then a lottery pick
Like what exactly. Go ahead lay them out
Dude we won 31 games last year in one of the most toxic environments in the league, not to mention the ever changing triangle.
Were coming back with primarily the same roster and a upgrade a sg, sf(to replace lance), pg and no triangle, and no meddling president. AT some point we will be able to sign or trade for the wing player/star to replace melo.
WHY would you want your young guys and coaching staff to go through another miserable, depressing, losing culture, bad vibes, low energy, toxic locker room season, only to be rewarded with a role player.
You can have a healthy culture in a growing .400 team that's headed in the right direction or a terrible culture in a team that makes the playoffs. You're confusing two separate issues. The win total doesn't define the culture of the team. The mindset of the players, coaches, and front office does.
so if we make the playoffs that's a bad thing?
you can still trade up in the draft and you already know the players and coaching staff are coming in with one goal in mind..MAKE THE PLAYOFFS..
so to sit here and talk about blowing it up, or tanking is kind of silly, because you know that's not happening. I would rather see our role players and young guys step up and increase their value so they become assets. They had zero value this off season, which is why we couldn't trade them
IF melo is not traded, do you really think were bad enough to get a top 10 pick, let alone top 5
