Knicks · New York Knicks: Frank Ntilikina working on dribble penetration skills (page 2)
Vmart wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:https://dailyknicks.com/2017/08/10/new-y...Side note. He is the first PG the Knicks used a lottery selection on since Mark Jackson.
I don't think Mark Jackson was a lottery pick.
Sorry I read it wrong. Would be the first lotto pick the Knicks invested on a PG since Michael Ray Richardson 1978.
Jmpasq wrote:Uptown wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.
The sooner I see Frank actually playing for the Knicks, the sooner I can put my reservations in the rearview mirror. Unless DSJ wins rookie of the year. Then I will lose it, lol. Maybe not, if Frank shows something. Something to be positive about.Same....Especially when you consider what was available at 8. Either way, I'm glad he's working on a weakness, but the fact that he has to work on dribble penetration, which usually comes natural to most point guards, reads to me that he is not a point guard but a 6'5 wing that is still learning to play point....
What i've said all along he is a secondary ball handler. If he isn't a PG his size advantage becomes a lot less valuable
Don't just look at height, but overall length. 7'0" wingspan gives him an advantage at either guard spot.
Excited to see him play.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.
Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
and, he is less finished offensively but we see that a lot with young Euro's as they are not "cut loose" by their teams.
Frank was part of a good team and the vets with contracts were the stars. Frank was out the door and the team was not commited to show case him nor let him
be the focal point. Dennis smith jr. on a bad team got to showcase. Im not taking anything away from the other guys at all.
I can't really say a darn thing until he plays against NBA players and I expect him to need time. For all we know he still might be growing into those arms a bit!!!!
So from a few video who can really say?
Magic at 6'9 looked slow, guys with long legs look slower than smaller burst like players.
I think most of the leagues players are working on thier games this summer!!! Especially those under age 23!!!
smackeddog wrote:My main worry is his speed- obviously it's way too early, but he does seem very slow in a lot of videos- can't tell if it's just him working at a deliberate pace or if he lacks speed. Hopefully the former.
I also had the same concerns. however, I also thought when porzingis was drafted, he looked slow in his European videos also and he turned it up when he got here. we have to see during camp. he will be forced to play with speed now that the triangle is out the window.
Nalod wrote:Jeez, the kid just turned 19 and is a full year younger than the other Freshman that are coming into the league.
and, he is less finished offensively but we see that a lot with young Euro's as they are not "cut loose" by their teams.
Frank was part of a good team and the vets with contracts were the stars. Frank was out the door and the team was not commited to show case him nor let him
be the focal point. Dennis smith jr. on a bad team got to showcase. Im not taking anything away from the other guys at all.
I can't really say a darn thing until he plays against NBA players and I expect him to need time. For all we know he still might be growing into those arms a bit!!!!
So from a few video who can really say?
Magic at 6'9 looked slow, guys with long legs look slower than smaller burst like players.I think most of the leagues players are working on thier games this summer!!! Especially those under age 23!!!
And he still earned the starting spot on the team. And was the youngest player in his league. Started in the playoffs. Had the highest plus-minus for his team and was practically the teams difference maker for his team in final championship game though they lost.
Uptown wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Working on craftiness with the ball is normal. He can develop himself to be smooth & crafty with hesitation moves, changes of speeds, floaters and pull up jumpers. All the things they seem to be working on in the video clip. As he gets older and adds some muscle and develops his body some more would be a tougher cover due to frame.
newyorknewyork wrote:Uptown wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Working on craftiness with the ball is normal. He can develop himself to be smooth & crafty with hesitation moves, changes of speeds, floaters and pull up jumpers. All the things they seem to be working on in the video clip. As he gets older and adds some muscle and develops his body some more would be a tougher cover due to frame.
Yes its normal for a rookie to work on his dribble penetration skills. At 8 however, lottery picks, PGs, usually have that pretty much down. Its not an unfair criticism. Phil knew he was raw when he drafted him.
Frank already has already shown a decent stutter step. Needs to work on improving his first step. That will go a long way in helping Frank get to the rim faster.
Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
BigDaddyG wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Uptown wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.
The sooner I see Frank actually playing for the Knicks, the sooner I can put my reservations in the rearview mirror. Unless DSJ wins rookie of the year. Then I will lose it, lol. Maybe not, if Frank shows something. Something to be positive about.Same....Especially when you consider what was available at 8. Either way, I'm glad he's working on a weakness, but the fact that he has to work on dribble penetration, which usually comes natural to most point guards, reads to me that he is not a point guard but a 6'5 wing that is still learning to play point....
What i've said all along he is a secondary ball handler. If he isn't a PG his size advantage becomes a lot less valuableDon't just look at height, but overall length. 7'0" wingspan gives him an advantage at either guard spot.
I get it about the wingspan. What I dont get is how Frank averaged only 2 rebounds a game for most of his career with that wingspan? Frank has to be more aggressive in that dept.
Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
Im giving this kid a few years to develop. Im not a youtube coach.
Nalod wrote:Im not comparing him to Clyde, but at 6-4 and long arms CLyde rarely looked quick and fast like rose-marbury-francis-denis smith types but he got in the paint just fine.
Im giving this kid a few years to develop. Im not a youtube coach.
Yes you are 
GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. Point guards don't have to come from a cookie cutter. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be a great point guard.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Uptown wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Working on craftiness with the ball is normal. He can develop himself to be smooth & crafty with hesitation moves, changes of speeds, floaters and pull up jumpers. All the things they seem to be working on in the video clip. As he gets older and adds some muscle and develops his body some more would be a tougher cover due to frame.Yes its normal for a rookie to work on his dribble penetration skills. At 8 however, lottery picks, PGs, usually have that pretty much down. Its not an unfair criticism. Phil knew he was raw when he drafted him.
Frank already has already shown a decent stutter step. Needs to work on improving his first step. That will go a long way in helping Frank get to the rim faster.
We will have to see him play NBA comp first to decide how developed or underdeveloped his penitration ability is. In his strengths highlight tape there were some strong penitration clips off the PNR showing him cappable of shifting gears. James Harden coming out of his rookie year wouldn't have been able to do the things at PG for MDA as he is now. He developed a lot of craft to his game today to be able to pull off what he does given his size and frame. For a PG standards he isnt qucik or fast or speedy. His frame and craft off the pick allow him to beat guards.
Frank also is by far rated better defensively then any other PG in this class. Frank would fit the more positionless NBA where you have multiple ball movers and shooters and defenders killing teams with there dual threat ability while not being able to pin down any one ball dominant player. But would depends on KP and Hardaway to be able to move the ball on that level as well.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.