Knicks · New York Knicks: Frank Ntilikina working on dribble penetration skills (page 3)
GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Can you guess who's college scouting's report this belongs too?
Doesn't have great footspeed or a very quick first step. Most NBA PG's have an extra burst of speed they can switch into to blow by their man and create their own shot, or get into the lane and create for others. He finds ways around that on the NCAA level, using a wide array of body fakes and nifty dribbling to get his defenders off balance. Will he be able to do the same in the NBA? Defensively, he plays very well on the college level, but could have trouble finding the lateral quickness to guard players like Dwyane Wade and others.
BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Can you guess who's college scouting's report this belongs too?Doesn't have great footspeed or a very quick first step. Most NBA PG's have an extra burst of speed they can switch into to blow by their man and create their own shot, or get into the lane and create for others. He finds ways around that on the NCAA level, using a wide array of body fakes and nifty dribbling to get his defenders off balance. Will he be able to do the same in the NBA? Defensively, he plays very well on the college level, but could have trouble finding the lateral quickness to guard players like Dwyane Wade and others.
Im guessing Rondo. Not going to answer for someone else's bad call. As I said, if Frank cant consistently get to rim, he is going to have to be a great floor general to make up for it. Cant be just about defense.
GustavBahler wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Can you guess who's college scouting's report this belongs too?Doesn't have great footspeed or a very quick first step. Most NBA PG's have an extra burst of speed they can switch into to blow by their man and create their own shot, or get into the lane and create for others. He finds ways around that on the NCAA level, using a wide array of body fakes and nifty dribbling to get his defenders off balance. Will he be able to do the same in the NBA? Defensively, he plays very well on the college level, but could have trouble finding the lateral quickness to guard players like Dwyane Wade and others.Im guessing Rondo. Not going to answer for someone else's bad call. As I said, if Frank cant consistently get to rim, he is going to have to be a great floor general to make up for it. Cant be just about defense.
It was Deron Williams. I'm not trying to make comparisons, I'm just saying Ballhandling, penetration moves are things that can be tightened up. We've seen from game clips that he can handle the pick and roll and he already has a functional floater. That's half the battle right there. It's too early to be worried about anything at this point. He's already shown that he's a heady floor general at 18.
BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Can you guess who's college scouting's report this belongs too?Doesn't have great footspeed or a very quick first step. Most NBA PG's have an extra burst of speed they can switch into to blow by their man and create their own shot, or get into the lane and create for others. He finds ways around that on the NCAA level, using a wide array of body fakes and nifty dribbling to get his defenders off balance. Will he be able to do the same in the NBA? Defensively, he plays very well on the college level, but could have trouble finding the lateral quickness to guard players like Dwyane Wade and others.Im guessing Rondo. Not going to answer for someone else's bad call. As I said, if Frank cant consistently get to rim, he is going to have to be a great floor general to make up for it. Cant be just about defense.
It was Deron Williams. I'm not trying to make comparisons, I'm just saying Ballhandling, penetration moves are things that can be tightened up. We've seen from game clips that he can handle the pick and roll and he already has a functional floater. That's half the battle right there. It's too early to be worried about anything at this point. He's already shown that he's a heady floor general at 18.
Im a little concerned that this is not already a strength of a PG selected with the 8th pick. If we were talking about a second rounder, that would be another story. I hope you're right about his abilities as a floor general. He's going to need them to be the starting PG.
GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Yep, and I don't see that type of court vision
Jmpasq wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Yep, and I don't see that type of court vision
Based on what?
BigDaddyG wrote:Funny how folks just glossed over your Deron Williams point, a guy who became an all-star and consider for a while on the same level as Chris Paul, to continue their Frank doubter-fest.GustavBahler wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Can you guess who's college scouting's report this belongs too?Doesn't have great footspeed or a very quick first step. Most NBA PG's have an extra burst of speed they can switch into to blow by their man and create their own shot, or get into the lane and create for others. He finds ways around that on the NCAA level, using a wide array of body fakes and nifty dribbling to get his defenders off balance. Will he be able to do the same in the NBA? Defensively, he plays very well on the college level, but could have trouble finding the lateral quickness to guard players like Dwyane Wade and others.Im guessing Rondo. Not going to answer for someone else's bad call. As I said, if Frank cant consistently get to rim, he is going to have to be a great floor general to make up for it. Cant be just about defense.
It was Deron Williams. I'm not trying to make comparisons, I'm just saying Ballhandling, penetration moves are things that can be tightened up. We've seen from game clips that he can handle the pick and roll and he already has a functional floater. That's half the battle right there. It's too early to be worried about anything at this point. He's already shown that he's a heady floor general at 18.
meloshouldgo wrote:A couple minutes of youtube videos.Jmpasq wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Yep, and I don't see that type of court vision
Based on what?
Welpee wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Funny how folks just glossed over your Deron Williams point, a guy who became an all-star and consider for a while on the same level as Chris Paul, to continue their Frank doubter-fest.GustavBahler wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Can you guess who's college scouting's report this belongs too?Doesn't have great footspeed or a very quick first step. Most NBA PG's have an extra burst of speed they can switch into to blow by their man and create their own shot, or get into the lane and create for others. He finds ways around that on the NCAA level, using a wide array of body fakes and nifty dribbling to get his defenders off balance. Will he be able to do the same in the NBA? Defensively, he plays very well on the college level, but could have trouble finding the lateral quickness to guard players like Dwyane Wade and others.Im guessing Rondo. Not going to answer for someone else's bad call. As I said, if Frank cant consistently get to rim, he is going to have to be a great floor general to make up for it. Cant be just about defense.
It was Deron Williams. I'm not trying to make comparisons, I'm just saying Ballhandling, penetration moves are things that can be tightened up. We've seen from game clips that he can handle the pick and roll and he already has a functional floater. That's half the battle right there. It's too early to be worried about anything at this point. He's already shown that he's a heady floor general at 18.
Watching Deron Williams at Illinois, it was clear he was a pure pg, not hybrid or a converted wing. He had full command of the offense that he led to the championship game. From what ive seen of Frank, i do not see any similarities in his game and Williams game coming into the league...
Uptown wrote:Welpee wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Funny how folks just glossed over your Deron Williams point, a guy who became an all-star and consider for a while on the same level as Chris Paul, to continue their Frank doubter-fest.GustavBahler wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Well I think IQ and feel for the game (as an 18 year old) are suppose to be his strengths coming to the NBA. And regarding the dribble penetration thing, we're talking like it's all or nothing. It's just like defense, some guys are great, some can't play a lick of defense, then there are those guys who are adequate. They may not lock down anybody but they're not hurting you either. I wouldn't think Frank needs to be John Wall getting to the hoop. Now if he's Jose Calderon we may have a problem.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:What I'm saying is you can have varying strengths and weaknesses and still be great. If ultimately dribble penetration isn't Frank's strength, that doesn't automatically disqualify him from having the potential to be great.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Just like dribble penetration = great point guard. Didn't we have a guy great at dribble penetration last season?Welpee wrote:Uptown wrote:Well, under normal circumstances a point guard isn't going to be 6'5" with a 7 foot wingspan. I'm not looking for highlight reel plays, I'm looking for a guy who helps facilitate winning. Dennis Johnson wasn't known for his dribble penetration but he helped his teams win. If Frank can be that type of player I'm good.Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Didn't realize that, wow. Mixed emotions about this article. Glad that Frank is taking developing an NBA game seriously. Not so glad that this part of his game needs a good deal of work at the 8 spot.Because Monk and Smith didn't have aspect of their game they needed to work on? I look at it this way, I like the fact that his IQ and defense apparently doesn't need a great deal of work.Of course they do...But under normal circumstances, dribble penetration is not the weakest part of most point guards game.
Thats the go to excuse here. Dribble penetration= highlight reel, not important.
No, not just like that, because Im saying that its an important part of the package of what makes a great PG. You are suggesting that it isn't.
Rose was literally the most selfish PG in the league last season, doubt Frank will go that route. Again, most PGs drafted this high have a certain degree of proficiency in their game that Frank lacks. Frank is a project. Would have prefered less of one at 8 with the alternatives on the board. Its not that I believe that Frank has nothing to offer.
Understood. If Frank had superior court vision, that would help offset his lack of dribble penetration, but Im not sure he has that. Frank might turn out to be a fast learner, who knows?
Knicks just signed THJ to a big contract, so moving Frank to the wing (if he is more suited for that position) wont be an option, at least as a starter. I hope Sessions is a good mentor, hope Clyde helps Frank as well.
And it's possible we could play THJ at the 3 in a small lineup, something I think Hornacek has done in the past.
The best PGs in this league have no trouble blowing by defenders and getting to the rim. Thats today's NBA. Its a faster league now. Frank is going to have to be able to consistently get to the rim, or he's going to have a hard time holding on to a starting job. Unless he becomes a first rate floor general.
Can you guess who's college scouting's report this belongs too?Doesn't have great footspeed or a very quick first step. Most NBA PG's have an extra burst of speed they can switch into to blow by their man and create their own shot, or get into the lane and create for others. He finds ways around that on the NCAA level, using a wide array of body fakes and nifty dribbling to get his defenders off balance. Will he be able to do the same in the NBA? Defensively, he plays very well on the college level, but could have trouble finding the lateral quickness to guard players like Dwyane Wade and others.Im guessing Rondo. Not going to answer for someone else's bad call. As I said, if Frank cant consistently get to rim, he is going to have to be a great floor general to make up for it. Cant be just about defense.
It was Deron Williams. I'm not trying to make comparisons, I'm just saying Ballhandling, penetration moves are things that can be tightened up. We've seen from game clips that he can handle the pick and roll and he already has a functional floater. That's half the battle right there. It's too early to be worried about anything at this point. He's already shown that he's a heady floor general at 18.Watching Deron Williams at Illinois, it was clear he was a pure pg, not hybrid or a converted wing. He had full command of the offense that he led to the championship game. From what ive seen of Frank, i do not see any similarities in his game and Williams game coming into the league...
The only reason for the comparison was to show it's possible to develop dribble penetration later in life. Where did anyone say they had similar games?
Similar to how Ball looks long and slow....But he's affective.
Same with Frank....He will look slow, because he's 6'6 and long. But with a jumper (I can attest to this), players will close out on him very quick. You use that to your advantage with dribble drive penetration.
You can and will develop more penetration moves, just being around the league and trainers. Thats the easy part. How Frank handles the NBA mentally is always the challenge for all rookies. Based on history, he should do well in that area, with his pro experience.
Smith vs Frank is the classic comparison of an explosive guard, who relies on his athleticism and a High IQ two way guard, who doesn't need to rely on athleticism or explosiveness to impact the game.
Smith is a typical And One NYC type of PG.....flashy and will be all over sports center. Frank is a championship type PG, who will never get the credit he deserves. With all the injuries to small explosive guards, I rather invest in Frank, who's two way potential is very high. And long defenders, who can shoot and pass is rare!
I don't think he needs to be supremely quick to get drives towards the basket.
The fact that he is 6'5 with a 7' wingspan should allow him to get shots off his man in traffic during drives.
He has to be more like a shoot over you than a blow by you guy.
Meaning he needs to take a few dribbles, get closer to the basket, then pull up for a short close jumper or take a contested/challenged layup attempt.
He has to become good at shooting over players, and good at shooting contested layups.
But the main thing for this aspect will be how he does with his jumpshot. Once he makes his jumpshots, his pull ups off the dribble, then his man plays him tight. Allowing for better driving or blow by opportunities. Also when he plays screen and roll with KP, there could be switch ups and Frank will have a big speed advantage on the big switching on to him.
blkexec wrote:Ron Harper was not a PG in college and he led the bulls through multiple championships. We have to get out of the traditional thinking of what a PG looks like. And focus on what a PG like Frank can bring to the PG position.Similar to how Ball looks long and slow....But he's affective.
Same with Frank....He will look slow, because he's 6'6 and long. But with a jumper (I can attest to this), players will close out on him very quick. You use that to your advantage with dribble drive penetration.
You can and will develop more penetration moves, just being around the league and trainers. Thats the easy part. How Frank handles the NBA mentally is always the challenge for all rookies. Based on history, he should do well in that area, with his pro experience.
Smith vs Frank is the classic comparison of an explosive guard, who relies on his athleticism and a High IQ two way guard, who doesn't need to rely on athleticism or explosiveness to impact the game.
Smith is a typical And One NYC type of PG.....flashy and will be all over sports center. Frank is a championship type PG, who will never get the credit he deserves. With all the injuries to small explosive guards, I rather invest in Frank, who's two way potential is very high. And long defenders, who can shoot and pass is rare!
Great post, agree completely
Ntlikina can shoot and that will open his avenue for penetration to the basket.
It's only a YouTube, but he looks like the 69% bust potential they highlighted in the draft.
blkexec wrote:Ron Harper was not a PG in college and he led the bulls through multiple championships. We have to get out of the traditional thinking of what a PG looks like. And focus on what a PG like Frank can bring to the PG position.Similar to how Ball looks long and slow....But he's affective.
Same with Frank....He will look slow, because he's 6'6 and long. But with a jumper (I can attest to this), players will close out on him very quick. You use that to your advantage with dribble drive penetration.
You can and will develop more penetration moves, just being around the league and trainers. Thats the easy part. How Frank handles the NBA mentally is always the challenge for all rookies. Based on history, he should do well in that area, with his pro experience.
Smith vs Frank is the classic comparison of an explosive guard, who relies on his athleticism and a High IQ two way guard, who doesn't need to rely on athleticism or explosiveness to impact the game.
Smith is a typical And One NYC type of PG.....flashy and will be all over sports center. Frank is a championship type PG, who will never get the credit he deserves. With all the injuries to small explosive guards, I rather invest in Frank, who's two way potential is very high. And long defenders, who can shoot and pass is rare!
Why is it when a guard can handle the ball like its on a string, can dunk and throw nice passes that it automatically equals an And One type of player? If this is the case, I guess John Wall, Kyrie and Russ are And One Players too...