Knicks · Great video by Coach Nick - Don't Blame the Triangle (page 2)
mlby1215 wrote:There were a lot of reasons why Phil was let go. His teams did not win. He did not have continuity with his roster or coaching staff. He made bad trades and bad free agent signings. He did not handle the media well and this did hurt him. He managed the team like he was coaching it instead of embracing being a front office executive. He presented as small and vindictive at times with players he was angry or frustrated with.nixluva wrote:mlby1215 wrote:The most horrible thing is that no one in NY media talked about it before. 5% of offense was triangle but it was the fault. They only wanted a way to kill off Phil Jackson and we HELPED them. So now the skipped exit meeting was not related to Melo and Phil at all? But does anyone from NY media come out and apologize? Of course not because they knew it could be wrong but why not use that way to damage Phil? As fans we totally got everything wrong and we pressured and pressured then everything broke and now we can lose more this season, ok?Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything. You love melo but he wants to go away. You love KP but actually he hates his coach not Phil. So? The only thing we have done is to help Mills comes out to the top.
IMO I'm fine with Phil going. He pretty much did all he was needed for in terms of directing the building of young talent. Phil's best work was adding Gaines and setting the parameters for the kind of players this team would build with. He was not able to get anything done via Free Agency.
Mills was able to watch and learn from Phil both good and bad. Now he has a much clearer vision and his hiring Perry is a good sign he did learn what not to do and the importance of a capable and liked GM who has relationships.
I am not fine with Phil firing, especially not three days before free agents signing. I would rather Knicks keep its cool and find his replacement in 2 years. He would be gone anyway when he was 73.I really don't think how Mills would do the good things you have mentioned. It is not that Phil is the best, but do we have better choice? You really want Mills? I don't.
Mills did not choose Perry. It is just that other didn't want to come, but Perry did.
But I am not here to argue Phil is good or bad. I am here just to show how clueless we are, collectively. We destroyed Phil Jackson and then we hope the next one would follow his way? Mills would not that stupid.
I am really speechless. We did something based on some rumors and then it turned out it is not true. So we try to make some excuses like "it is okay. he was not very good anyway"
This is why NY media played us like a fool. They disliked someone and we killed him, and we call ourselves loyal fans.
mlby1215 wrote:Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything.
One of the base problems I see, and it's because both Jackson and Melo both used and are using the media to blame the other, is trying to assess FAULT in just ONE PARTY here.
Lots of things Jackson could have done better. And likely should have done better.
Also a whole boatload of crap that Melo could have and should have done better.
The flaws and faults of one DO NOT ABSOLVE the cancerous and team killing ways of the other.
Both needed to go and go badly.
Jackson was/is aging badly, had ZERO previous personnel experience in running a teams front office, pushed a controversial offense onto a team stuck without assets and picks and talent and had enemies from his coaching days all over the league and in the media. The positive contributions he made could have been made by NEARLY ANY ENTRY LEVEL NBA INTERN ANYWHERE IN THE LEAGUE. A from the ground up rebuild, if you making decisions against actual market based trends and forces, literally writes itself in terms of a "script" No other pro sport has such a narrow path to actual decision making. That Jackson still f**ked it up when he could have just had a few INTERNS basically write some assessments and papers on how to improve the Knicks and would have done better just listening to some 24 year old Intern is just downright pathetic.
It's hard to win given the structure of the league and the scarcity of overall talent.
However the right "market based decisions" are actually pretty easy.
Getting Phil Jackson was a plan to fail. But it's not just his fault, MELO ALSO CARRIES MASSIVE BLAME FOR THE KNICKS PROBLEMS.
I realize this is going to suck for people to hear, but the Jackson Era was just burning time. The Knicks need to gut this team and gut this franchise and maybe just Hernangomez and Ntilikina stay, but the rest have to be expendable to move forward. The problem was not firing Phil Jackson, the problem was
A) Hiring him in the first place given his negative tradeoffs and lack of experience
B) Not firing him sooner given the above
TheGame wrote:I do see the problem with melo. He just is not very disciplined on offense because his mentality is just give me the ball and move out of the way. In his mind, anything else is a waste of energy, so he just goes through the motions.
Melo is too old and stubborn to change, and Rose is too dumb to understand what's going on. Let's build a roster of players who are smart and respond to coaching. Give me more Ron Bakers, more KPs, more Willys. I do think JR Smith and Shumpert were bad examples and I'm glad they are gone. Melo needs to go as well and when that's done we can finally get a free flowing offense that uses its collective brain to read the defense and pick the right shot!!!
TheGame wrote: I put it on the coaches. The offense is not that hard if you get on your players to commit and get on them about not following through on the details. But whatever, I want the team to incorporate more of a warriors offense. We have solid shooting. We just need the players to commit.
So it's the coaches fault that Melo just doesn't give a f**k about this team nor winning?
This is NOT the NFL where contracts are often non guaranteed and many players don't have the leverage to secure signing bonuses that make them uncuttable.
It's not like you can stick a gun to Melo's head and make him play basic team defense.
Charles Barkley said it best, you can keep getting other people fired and kicked out, but at some point, it's just you, all by yourself, and you are the common denominator as the main problem for your team.
Melo has never lost a power struggle in his career. And look where that got the Knicks.
You say blame the coaches. blkexec says blame the fans ( who the f**k actually says blame the fans? I mean how out of touch with reality do you have to be to blame the fans?)
How about if Melo just doesn't give a sh*t, that it's just on him? That he doesn't give a damn about winning or playing actual team basketball.
They got rid of EVERYONE ELSE
Pringles. Fisher. Chandler. Lin. Woodson. Jackson. At what litmus do people finally say Melo not caring and lack of actual effort is just on him. That he would rather sell a stupid hat than actually behave like a professional and leader.
Melo just doesn't give a f**k. Is it that hard to see when you watch him play?
CrushAlot wrote:mlby1215 wrote:There were a lot of reasons why Phil was let go. His teams did not win. He did not have continuity with his roster or coaching staff. He made bad trades and bad free agent signings. He did not handle the media well and this did hurt him. He managed the team like he was coaching it instead of embracing being a front office executive. He presented as small and vindictive at times with players he was angry or frustrated with.nixluva wrote:mlby1215 wrote:The most horrible thing is that no one in NY media talked about it before. 5% of offense was triangle but it was the fault. They only wanted a way to kill off Phil Jackson and we HELPED them. So now the skipped exit meeting was not related to Melo and Phil at all? But does anyone from NY media come out and apologize? Of course not because they knew it could be wrong but why not use that way to damage Phil? As fans we totally got everything wrong and we pressured and pressured then everything broke and now we can lose more this season, ok?Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything. You love melo but he wants to go away. You love KP but actually he hates his coach not Phil. So? The only thing we have done is to help Mills comes out to the top.
IMO I'm fine with Phil going. He pretty much did all he was needed for in terms of directing the building of young talent. Phil's best work was adding Gaines and setting the parameters for the kind of players this team would build with. He was not able to get anything done via Free Agency.
Mills was able to watch and learn from Phil both good and bad. Now he has a much clearer vision and his hiring Perry is a good sign he did learn what not to do and the importance of a capable and liked GM who has relationships.
I am not fine with Phil firing, especially not three days before free agents signing. I would rather Knicks keep its cool and find his replacement in 2 years. He would be gone anyway when he was 73.I really don't think how Mills would do the good things you have mentioned. It is not that Phil is the best, but do we have better choice? You really want Mills? I don't.
Mills did not choose Perry. It is just that other didn't want to come, but Perry did.
But I am not here to argue Phil is good or bad. I am here just to show how clueless we are, collectively. We destroyed Phil Jackson and then we hope the next one would follow his way? Mills would not that stupid.
I am really speechless. We did something based on some rumors and then it turned out it is not true. So we try to make some excuses like "it is okay. he was not very good anyway"
This is why NY media played us like a fool. They disliked someone and we killed him, and we call ourselves loyal fans.
mlby1215 wrote:Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything.
This is not entirely true, he was a distraction, but on the other hand, Mills was the GM who build the last 3 rosters, or had a lot of influence. We already heard phil hardly negotiated with other presidents.
knicks1248 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:mlby1215 wrote:There were a lot of reasons why Phil was let go. His teams did not win. He did not have continuity with his roster or coaching staff. He made bad trades and bad free agent signings. He did not handle the media well and this did hurt him. He managed the team like he was coaching it instead of embracing being a front office executive. He presented as small and vindictive at times with players he was angry or frustrated with.nixluva wrote:mlby1215 wrote:The most horrible thing is that no one in NY media talked about it before. 5% of offense was triangle but it was the fault. They only wanted a way to kill off Phil Jackson and we HELPED them. So now the skipped exit meeting was not related to Melo and Phil at all? But does anyone from NY media come out and apologize? Of course not because they knew it could be wrong but why not use that way to damage Phil? As fans we totally got everything wrong and we pressured and pressured then everything broke and now we can lose more this season, ok?Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything. You love melo but he wants to go away. You love KP but actually he hates his coach not Phil. So? The only thing we have done is to help Mills comes out to the top.
IMO I'm fine with Phil going. He pretty much did all he was needed for in terms of directing the building of young talent. Phil's best work was adding Gaines and setting the parameters for the kind of players this team would build with. He was not able to get anything done via Free Agency.
Mills was able to watch and learn from Phil both good and bad. Now he has a much clearer vision and his hiring Perry is a good sign he did learn what not to do and the importance of a capable and liked GM who has relationships.
I am not fine with Phil firing, especially not three days before free agents signing. I would rather Knicks keep its cool and find his replacement in 2 years. He would be gone anyway when he was 73.I really don't think how Mills would do the good things you have mentioned. It is not that Phil is the best, but do we have better choice? You really want Mills? I don't.
Mills did not choose Perry. It is just that other didn't want to come, but Perry did.
But I am not here to argue Phil is good or bad. I am here just to show how clueless we are, collectively. We destroyed Phil Jackson and then we hope the next one would follow his way? Mills would not that stupid.
I am really speechless. We did something based on some rumors and then it turned out it is not true. So we try to make some excuses like "it is okay. he was not very good anyway"
This is why NY media played us like a fool. They disliked someone and we killed him, and we call ourselves loyal fans.
mlby1215 wrote:Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything.This is not entirely true, he was a distraction, but on the other hand, Mills was the GM who build the last 3 rosters, or had a lot of influence. We already heard phil hardly negotiated with other presidents.
Phil wasn't perfect but no GM or Coach can survive if the team's best players don't buy in 💯% and set the tone. Nothing works without that!!! Things would've been much better if starting with Melo there was full but in!!!
In any event things are what they are. Phil and his team drafted well and they've committed to the young players. Mills, Perry and Jeff are not facing high expectations so any positive movement in wins will be seen as a success. Especially if the young players really show major growth.
TripleThreat wrote:TheGame wrote: I put it on the coaches. The offense is not that hard if you get on your players to commit and get on them about not following through on the details. But whatever, I want the team to incorporate more of a warriors offense. We have solid shooting. We just need the players to commit.
So it's the coaches fault that Melo just doesn't give a f**k about this team nor winning?This is NOT the NFL where contracts are often non guaranteed and many players don't have the leverage to secure signing bonuses that make them uncuttable.
It's not like you can stick a gun to Melo's head and make him play basic team defense.
Charles Barkley said it best, you can keep getting other people fired and kicked out, but at some point, it's just you, all by yourself, and you are the common denominator as the main problem for your team.
Melo has never lost a power struggle in his career. And look where that got the Knicks.
You say blame the coaches. blkexec says blame the fans ( who the f**k actually says blame the fans? I mean how out of touch with reality do you have to be to blame the fans?)
How about if Melo just doesn't give a sh*t, that it's just on him? That he doesn't give a damn about winning or playing actual team basketball.
They got rid of EVERYONE ELSE
Pringles. Fisher. Chandler. Lin. Woodson. Jackson. At what litmus do people finally say Melo not caring and lack of actual effort is just on him. That he would rather sell a stupid hat than actually behave like a professional and leader.
Melo just doesn't give a f**k. Is it that hard to see when you watch him play?
If you looked at my entire post, I did put some of the blame on Melo; but it is the job of the coach to get what he needs from the player. Horny should have sat Melo's butt on the bench if he was not buying in.
TheGame wrote:TripleThreat wrote:TheGame wrote: I put it on the coaches. The offense is not that hard if you get on your players to commit and get on them about not following through on the details. But whatever, I want the team to incorporate more of a warriors offense. We have solid shooting. We just need the players to commit.
So it's the coaches fault that Melo just doesn't give a f**k about this team nor winning?This is NOT the NFL where contracts are often non guaranteed and many players don't have the leverage to secure signing bonuses that make them uncuttable.
It's not like you can stick a gun to Melo's head and make him play basic team defense.
Charles Barkley said it best, you can keep getting other people fired and kicked out, but at some point, it's just you, all by yourself, and you are the common denominator as the main problem for your team.
Melo has never lost a power struggle in his career. And look where that got the Knicks.
You say blame the coaches. blkexec says blame the fans ( who the f**k actually says blame the fans? I mean how out of touch with reality do you have to be to blame the fans?)
How about if Melo just doesn't give a sh*t, that it's just on him? That he doesn't give a damn about winning or playing actual team basketball.
They got rid of EVERYONE ELSE
Pringles. Fisher. Chandler. Lin. Woodson. Jackson. At what litmus do people finally say Melo not caring and lack of actual effort is just on him. That he would rather sell a stupid hat than actually behave like a professional and leader.
Melo just doesn't give a f**k. Is it that hard to see when you watch him play?
If you looked at my entire post, I did put some of the blame on Melo; but it is the job of the coach to get what he needs from the player. Horny should have sat Melo's butt on the bench if he was not buying in.
Horny is nothing in Knicks world and Melo is the Boss.
And this situation is still the same until Melo is traded.
Phil was a big old shark but Melo eat him for lunch.
Little fishes like Horny Melo eats just passing by.