Knicks · Melo traded to OKC (Kanter, Doug McDermott, CHI 2018 second-round draft pick) (page 13)

EnySpree wrote:I'm not sure if this was discussed but the salaries don't match with Melo for Kanter and McDermott.... There's still like 10 mil missing.... did the Knicks get a trade exception?

I think it works. Salaries have to match within 25%, right? We're sending out $26 mil and taking back $21 mil in 2017-18 salaries.

What some are ignoring is that at the end of last season Hornacek said publicly that what the team lacked most of all was toughness. Enter Kanter. The anti-Pussy.

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I'm not sure if this was discussed but the salaries don't match with Melo for Kanter and McDermott.... There's still like 10 mil missing.... did the Knicks get a trade exception?

I think it works. Salaries have to match within 25%, right? We're sending out $26 mil and taking back $21 mil in 2017-18 salaries.

The trade went through but the salaries still aren't equal... the Knicks actually took back less salary. That's a plus anyway you look at it.... but I really think the Knicks are supposed to get a tradable exemption of that remaining space.

reub wrote:What some are ignoring is that at the end of last season Hornacek said publicly that what the team lacked most of all was toughness. Enter Kanter. The anti-Pussy.

Kanter is already what we hope Willy can be... it's an interesting sub plot. If anything the Knicks have ammo to use in a trade.

EnySpree wrote:

reub wrote:What some are ignoring is that at the end of last season Hornacek said publicly that what the team lacked most of all was toughness. Enter Kanter. The anti-Pussy.

Kanter is already what we hope Willy can be... it's an interesting sub plot. If anything the Knicks have ammo to use in a trade.

I honestly believe that Willy can become a much more well rounded player. His advanced stats from last year showed that he was slightly better on defense than on offense (although this doesn't pass the eye test). Plus Willy is being schooled by the Gasol brothers for the past few years in Eurobasket and the Olympics and this should definitely help him with his overall game. And his salary is an absolute bargain. Thanks, Phil!

reub wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

reub wrote:What some are ignoring is that at the end of last season Hornacek said publicly that what the team lacked most of all was toughness. Enter Kanter. The anti-Pussy.

Kanter is already what we hope Willy can be... it's an interesting sub plot. If anything the Knicks have ammo to use in a trade.

I honestly believe that Willy can become a much more well rounded player. His advanced stats from last year showed that he was slightly better on defense than on offense (although this doesn't pass the eye test). Plus Willy is being schooled by the Gasol brothers for the past few years in Eurobasket and the Olympics and this should definitely help him with his overall game. And his salary is an absolute bargain. Thanks, Phil!

It depends on what defensive stats you look at. He held his man to 51% shooting, which is pretty bad. His box score defensive stats (especially rebounding) are pretty good though. Any stat that emphasizes them will make him look good.

Kanter is in the same group as OK4 and Monroe- their value has plummeted in the league and they seem to have become 20min bench guys. I still think there will be a place for them in the game and they'll come back in fashion (I do like watching their post games), but I do wonder if it makes Kanter more likely to opt into his last year after this one.

smackeddog wrote:Kanter is in the same group as OK4 and Monroe- their value has plummeted in the league and they seem to have become 20min bench guys. I still think there will be a place for them in the game and they'll come back in fashion (I do like watching their post games), but I do wonder if it makes Kanter more likely to opt into his last year after this one.

Who is OK4?

EnySpree wrote:

reub wrote:What some are ignoring is that at the end of last season Hornacek said publicly that what the team lacked most of all was toughness. Enter Kanter. The anti-Pussy.

Kanter is already what we hope Willy can be... it's an interesting sub plot. If anything the Knicks have ammo to use in a trade.

I disagree with that one. Kanter is what I hope Willy won't become. Willy is already a better passer and rebounder than Kanter on per minute basis. He's even a slightly better shotblocker. We want Willy's defense to get to the point where his defense can keep him on the court. Kanter defense sucks, but he was able to outscore his man as a bench player. Will that fly if he's given starter minutes. I hope so, but I'm guessing that he probably won't.

smackeddog wrote:Kanter is in the same group as OK4 and Monroe- their value has plummeted in the league and they seem to have become 20min bench guys. I still think there will be a place for them in the game and they'll come back in fashion (I do like watching their post games), but I do wonder if it makes Kanter more likely to opt into his last year after this one.

Okafor's WS48 for the past 2 seasons is a terrible .043 while Kanter's is an amazing .204 so no comparison between the two of them.
For comparison, James Harden's WS48 over the last two seasons was .225.

Welpee wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Kanter is in the same group as OK4 and Monroe- their value has plummeted in the league and they seem to have become 20min bench guys. I still think there will be a place for them in the game and they'll come back in fashion (I do like watching their post games), but I do wonder if it makes Kanter more likely to opt into his last year after this one.

Who is OK4?

Jahil Okafor- beautiful post game and footwork, bad defender (and unlike Kanter, also a bad rebounder), has very badly underperformed in the league, but I think thats due to being on the Sixers.

I like watching those three players, but the league seems to have moved away from their style of play for now, which is a real shame.

reub wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Kanter is in the same group as OK4 and Monroe- their value has plummeted in the league and they seem to have become 20min bench guys. I still think there will be a place for them in the game and they'll come back in fashion (I do like watching their post games), but I do wonder if it makes Kanter more likely to opt into his last year after this one.

Okafor's WS48 for the past 2 seasons is a terrible .043 while Kanter's is an amazing .204 so no comparison between the two of them.
For comparison, James Harden's WS48 over the last two seasons was .225.

I'm talking about style of play/ type of player. I think OK4 can get a lot better, not that I'm denying he's greatly underperformed so far.

franco12 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Think this means we view Porzingis as a 4.

Kanter is a really good low post player
With KP, Willy, Kanter we are set at the big department for the next 5-7 years.
If Hardaway/Frank show to me a good backcourt the only thing we really need is a young athletic scoring 3.

I don't see how we can retain Kanter past this season with Noah locked up to big money, because eventually you will need to pony up for KP and Willy, and between those four, you will have $100m+ per year there.

I think Kanter gets dealt at the deadline to a contender, and we probably get a young prospect and draft pick. I mean I could totally see Cleveland giving up Brooklyn's pick for Kanter. Maybe there is a deal with Boston. Maybe Philly.

Lots of options where we had hardly any before.

Noah will expire before Willy can re-up.

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I'm not sure if this was discussed but the salaries don't match with Melo for Kanter and McDermott.... There's still like 10 mil missing.... did the Knicks get a trade exception?

I think it works. Salaries have to match within 25%, right? We're sending out $26 mil and taking back $21 mil in 2017-18 salaries.

The trade went through but the salaries still aren't equal... the Knicks actually took back less salary. That's a plus anyway you look at it.... but I really think the Knicks are supposed to get a tradable exemption of that remaining space.

Kanter + McDerMott needed to be within 125% of Melo contract, which it was. Kanter also has 15% trade kicker. No trade exemption.

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I'm not sure if this was discussed but the salaries don't match with Melo for Kanter and McDermott.... There's still like 10 mil missing.... did the Knicks get a trade exception?

I think it works. Salaries have to match within 25%, right? We're sending out $26 mil and taking back $21 mil in 2017-18 salaries.

The trade went through but the salaries still aren't equal... the Knicks actually took back less salary. That's a plus anyway you look at it.... but I really think the Knicks are supposed to get a tradable exemption of that remaining space.

Kanter + McDerMott needed to be within 125% of Melo contract, which it was. Kanter also has 15% trade kicker. No trade exemption.

Trade exemption? Oye... ok thanks for the clear up

smackeddog wrote:

Welpee wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Kanter is in the same group as OK4 and Monroe- their value has plummeted in the league and they seem to have become 20min bench guys. I still think there will be a place for them in the game and they'll come back in fashion (I do like watching their post games), but I do wonder if it makes Kanter more likely to opt into his last year after this one.

Who is OK4?

Jahil Okafor- beautiful post game and footwork, bad defender (and unlike Kanter, also a bad rebounder), has very badly underperformed in the league, but I think thats due to being on the Sixers.

I like watching those three players, but the league seems to have moved away from their style of play for now, which is a real shame.

I think the teams who chase the current style of play (in any era) usually fall short. Teams who play to their strengths in spite of what other teams are doing (I believe) have a better chance of success. If our strength is our front line and pounding teams with our bigs in the paint is our best chance of winning, I say we go in that direction rather than trying to replicate what the Warriors are doing (which is guaranteed to fail).

fitzfarm wrote:

People are all mimicking the "no defense" label, but look at his blocks. He brings a lot more than an injured player or piece of office furniture, as some posters are intimating.

smackeddog wrote:

reub wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Kanter is in the same group as OK4 and Monroe- their value has plummeted in the league and they seem to have become 20min bench guys. I still think there will be a place for them in the game and they'll come back in fashion (I do like watching their post games), but I do wonder if it makes Kanter more likely to opt into his last year after this one.

Okafor's WS48 for the past 2 seasons is a terrible .043 while Kanter's is an amazing .204 so no comparison between the two of them.
For comparison, James Harden's WS48 over the last two seasons was .225.

I'm talking about style of play/ type of player. I think OK4 can get a lot better, not that I'm denying he's greatly underperformed so far.

I know I probably sound like a broken record since I've mentioned this a million times, I wanted the Knicks to either have the #1 pick or #4 pick in that draft because I wanted no part of Okafor or Russell (though I also didn't want KP, Mudiay was my choice). So Okafor's under performance is no surprise to me. I saw a lot of red flags with him at Duke.

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stanleybostitch wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

People are all mimicking the "no defense" label, but look at his blocks. He brings a lot more than an injured player or piece of office furniture, as some posters are intimating.

His per minute blocks averages are a little less than Willy and Willy is no Mutumbo. I agree, he's better than some injured players. An injured Noah from last year is still probably a better defender, tho.