Knicks · Pelton trade grades for the Melo deal (page 1)
Trade grades for New York Knicks, Oklahoma City Thunder Carmelo Anthony deal - NBA
by Kevin Pelton on 2017-09-11 02:04:00 UTC (original: http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/20793198/trade-grades-new-york-knicks-oklahoma-city-thunder-carmelo-anthony-deal-nba)The deal
Thunder get: Forward Carmelo AnthonyKnicks get: Center Enes Kanter, forward Doug McDermott and Chicago's 2018 second-round pick
Oklahoma City Thunder: A
Within the last three months, the Thunder have gone from one extreme to another in terms of their shot creation around star Russell Westbrook. Having already acquired Paul George from the Indiana Pacers, Oklahoma City will now add Anthony, giving them two players whose usage rates were dramatically higher than that of any of Westbrook's teammates in 2016-17.Again, the cost to the Thunder was incredibly low. Kanter is a useful, if overpaid, contributor off the bench. But his defensive deficiencies rendered him nearly unplayable during Oklahoma City's playoff series with the Houston Rockets, when he got on the floor for just 45 minutes over five games as the Thunder lost 4-1. McDermott is similarly limited at the defensive end of the court, which prevented Oklahoma City from fully taking advantage of his ability to space the floor. And the second-round pick has little trade value.
The Thunder can now put out a lineup better equipped to match up with the Golden State Warriors and other opponents with effective smallball attacks. George's arrival allows Andre Roberson to defend power forwards, the role he played against Golden State in the 2016 Western Conference finals when Billy Donovan went small to match up. Playing Roberson as a 4 offensively hides his shortcomings as a shooter.
Anthony's arrival also means the Thunder are less dependent on Patrick Patterson, who underwent knee surgery last month not long after signing with Oklahoma City as a free agent. Patterson could provide more shooting if he plays ahead of Roberson in a postseason setting, but the Thunder no longer need him to start if his rehab is slower than anticipated.
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The big question for Oklahoma City is how Westbrook, George and Anthony will share the load offensively. The Westbrook-George pairing figured to work similarly to Westbrook and Kevin Durant, but the Thunder never had a third starter as offensive-minded as Anthony alongside Westbrook. Between 2009-10 and Durant's departure, the highest usage rate for an Oklahoma City starter besides the two stars was Kanter's 23.6 percent mark in 2015-16. (Kanter also had a 23.9 percent usage rate in 2014-14, which he split between the Thunder and the Utah Jazz.) Anthony's usage rate was 29.1 percent last season, and that was his lowest mark since his rookie season.
The success of this partnership will be determined in large part by Anthony's ability to become more efficient in a smaller role. Hope for that is provided by Anthony's success with the USA National Team in the Olympics and other international competitions. However, Anthony benefited there from the shorter FIBA 3-point line. He'll spend far more time in a catch-and-shoot role this season and needs to make 3s at an above-average rate, as he did in 2016-17 (35.9 percent).
I'm not convinced that adding Anthony makes Oklahoma City the biggest threat to the Warriors in the West. The Houston Rockets still look like a deeper team, albeit with fit questions of their own. But at this low price, there's no question this was a chance worth taking for the Thunder.
The biggest price may be the literal cost to ownership. Adding Anthony's salary, even without his trade bonus (waived to complete the trade) takes Oklahoma City even deeper into the luxury tax. Barring a midseason move to shed payroll, the Thunder are looking at paying nearly $30 million in taxes. Anthony's 2018-19 player option also limits Oklahoma City's flexibility next summer should George or Westbrook (or both) depart, although if Anthony expects that he may opt out of his contract as well. And in the case that all three players return, the Thunder would be staring at an enormous repeater tax bill.
New York Knicks: D
According to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, Knicks GM Scott Perry was looking for a scoring wing, short-term contracts and draft picks in an Anthony trade. Consider New York one for three in accomplishing those goals. For the Knicks not to even be able to get a good second-round pick in this trade is a disappointment, and McDermott certainly doesn't qualify as a wing capable of replacing Anthony's scoring production.At least New York isn't tied to long-term contracts as a result of this deal. McDermott is in the final season of his rookie contract, while Kanter -- like Anthony -- has a 2018-19 player option. With limited cap space available, the market for centers could be rough, so I'd expect Kanter to opt in. In that case, the Knicks aren't creating much cap relief in the summer of 2018 as compared to Anthony's player option. Still, this certainly isn't as bad as taking on the remaining three years of Ryan Anderson's contract, which likely would have been required of any trade with the Rockets.
Kanter doesn't really fill a need for New York, which already has a similar prospect with more defensive potential in Wily Hernangomez. With Hernangomez, Kanter, Joakim Noah and Kyle O'Quinn the Knicks are overflowing at the center position despite the fact that they should probably be getting power forward Kristaps Porzingis minutes there. I'd expect New York to explore the trade market for Kanter, which is unlikely to yield much value in return.
At this point, it was unlikely the Knicks would get much in return for Anthony. His no-trade clause limited their options, and Anthony is no longer a star player worth his maximum contract. More than anything, what the Knicks get out of this deal is the ability to move on from the ugly end to the Anthony era in the Big Apple. There's no longer any obligation to try to win on Anthony's timetable, which may have been a factor in the awful Noah contract, and by making the trade now New York avoids the awkwardness of bringing Anthony to training camp with both sides eager for a deal.
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StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont pay too much attention to trade grades. It was a bad situation and at least we added a couple decent pieces, a high 2nd rounder,and some cap reliefAt least he admits the Knicks were in a horribly compromised position but it doesn't appear that he considered that in his grade of the trade. The Thunder got the better player and became a better team. But with what the Knicks were working with I think this was a very good outcome.
CrushAlot wrote:plus melo is basically gonna be their third guy which is another reason the return isnt hugeStarksEwing1 wrote:I dont pay too much attention to trade grades. It was a bad situation and at least we added a couple decent pieces, a high 2nd rounder,and some cap reliefAt least he admits the Knicks were in a horribly compromised position but it doesn't appear that he considered that in his grade of the trade. The Thunder got the better player and became a better team. But with what the Knicks were working with I think this was a very good outcome.
CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.
Yeah, the pick isn't that much worse than a low first-rounder. Bulls will be in contention for worse team in the league. I agree that we need to move Kanter, like, yesterday lol he's young, but doesn't really fit long-term.
The crazy thing is that both Kanter and McDermott are amazingly bad defenders. The Knicks might consider using some Zone D next season 
CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.
For Pelton to say that we didn't even get a good 2nd round pick shows me his bias here. We definitely got one of those so I distrust everything else he's saying too.
reub wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.For Pelton to say that we didn't even get a good 2nd round pick shows me his bias here. We definitely got one of those so I distrust everything else he's saying too.
This!
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont pay too much attention to trade grades. It was a bad situation and at least we added a couple decent pieces, a high 2nd rounder,and some cap reliefAt least he admits the Knicks were in a horribly compromised position but it doesn't appear that he considered that in his grade of the trade. The Thunder got the better player and became a better team. But with what the Knicks were working with I think this was a very good outcome.
Agreed...Was hoping for Ferguson too but considering the circumstances, not an awful trade.
CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.
Yeah...that was strange. Low 30s allow you to pick some expected 1st rounders who fall or some sleepers you fall in love with...not bad any way you look at it.
TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean shit. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.
Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots
fitzfarm wrote:TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean shit. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots
I agree. They create too much nonsense for clicks but it is hurting their credibility. That said, I think think a D is a but harsh. A C is probably more realistic. After all that they ended up taking back a pretty bad contract in Kanter who will certainly opt in. I dunno how they plan to get manage the minutes will all these bigs either. Not great for roster balance.
SwishAndDish13 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean shit. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots
I agree. They create too much nonsense for clicks but it is hurting their credibility. That said, I think think a D is a but harsh. A C is probably more realistic. After all that they ended up taking back a pretty bad contract in Kanter who will certainly opt in. I dunno how they plan to get manage the minutes will all these bigs either. Not great for roster balance.
I have a feeling, there will be more trades
fitzfarm wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean shit. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots
I agree. They create too much nonsense for clicks but it is hurting their credibility. That said, I think think a D is a but harsh. A C is probably more realistic. After all that they ended up taking back a pretty bad contract in Kanter who will certainly opt in. I dunno how they plan to get manage the minutes will all these bigs either. Not great for roster balance.
I have a feeling, there will be more trades
Before the season starts...or a trade deadline deal?
joec32033 wrote:Exactly what I was saying before. Everyone says they need to trade him. Melo deserves better. Then the minute the trade was made, they complain they could have gotten more. Every freaking proposal was fairly similar and differed by only a matter of degrees. Portland if it included Harkless (who isn't as accomplished as Kanter and took like 3 teams to just get where he is now) was maybe a better fit, but this trade included just as much pure talent.
All they care about is Melo. It has never been about the Knicks for these guys, so they blame everything and everybody to try and make Melo look good. I don't give a rat's ass about Melo's feelings or his desire to play somewhere else, I am just happy he is no longer a Knick. Now if we could also fire Dolan and a few of these Melo fans - that would be just peachy.
joec32033 wrote:Exactly what I was saying before. Everyone says they need to trade him. Melo deserves better. Then the minute the trade was made, they complain they could have gotten more. Every freaking proposal was fairly similar and differed by only a matter of degrees. Portland if it included Harkless (who isn't as accomplished as Kanter and took like 3 teams to just get where he is now) was maybe a better fit, but this trade included just as much pure talent.This. Rivers and Craw, Shump, Frye and filler, Anderson and filler. They did as well as they could if their goal was to move that contract. His deal was almost untradeable and he was owed too much for a buyout until next year.
Grading The Deal: Thunder Acquire Carmelo Anthonyhttps://basketball.realgm.com/article/247494/Grading-The-Deal-Thunder-Acquire-Carmelo-Anthony
BY KEITH P SMITHSEP 23, 2017 9:36 PM
Carmelo Anthony has finally been traded by the New York Knicks, putting to an end a stalemate that saw Phil Jackson and Anthony wage a standoff that ultimately cost Jackson his job. But the damage was done and there was no fixing the relationship between Anthony and the Knicks.To make a trade when you have no leverage is almost always a losing proposition. Anthony possessed a no trade clause and threatened to wield it unless New York sent him to one of his preferred destinations. A player requesting a trade already reduces leverage. When that player also controls where he goes, the leverage is gone.
Anthony was a difficult player to trade for reasons beyond the lack of leverage and his no trade clause, as well. He makes over $26 million in 17-18 and shade under $28 million in 18-19, in a season where he possesses a player option that he’ll surely exercise. In addition, he had a 15 percent trade bonus. Anthony ultimately waived the trade bonus to push the deal through, but the large salary made finding a match more difficult than your average trade. Add to it that Anthony is 33 years old, has a history of nagging injuries and has seen his stats and efficiency drop off over the last two years, and the market isn’t as good as one might think for a player of his assumed caliber.
Add it all up and the Knicks did alright. Neither Enes Kanter nor Doug McDermott are likely to ever fill the superstar shoes of Anthony, either separately or when combined. But both are solid players already and still young enough to expect some level of improvement. Kanter is one of the best offensive centers in the league. Few can match his ability to score on the block. He’s also a plus rebounder. His Per 36 minutes numbers last year are All-Star level at 24.3 points per game and 11.3 rebound per game. Considering he may merit that sort of playing time in New York, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him average a double-double this coming season.
On the other hand, Kanter is a weak defender. When paired with Kristaps Porzingis, teams might pick and roll the Knicks to death. If you have quick ball handlers and mobile bigs, New York won’t stand a chance. But the trade-off is two players who should mesh incredibly well on the offensive end. If you can’t stop them, outscore them.
That is where McDermott comes in. Playing primarily in a bench role over his first three season, McDermott has proven to be a deadeye shooter, who can also rebound well for his position. His defense, like Kanter’s, leaves a lot to be desired, but he’s a career 39.4 percent shooter from behind the arc. If the Knicks can stomach the losses on the defensive end, they can put together a solid offensive lineup of Porzingis, Kanter, McDermott, Tim Hardaway Jr. and Ron Baker or Frank Ntilikina at point guard. That group will be awful on defense, but will be fun to watch on offense.
The pick New York got at first glance might seem like it is a just a second round pick, but don’t discount it so easily. That pick is coming from the Chicago Bulls via the Thunder. The Bulls project to be one of the worst teams in the NBA. High second round picks are significant assets and the Knicks should be able to get a player at the draft, or use it in trade.
There are two other keys to this trade for New York. First is that the drama that threatened to overshadow everything had they entered the season with Anthony on the squad is now gone. Anthony was still their best player, but that type of negativity, no matter how professionally everyone handles it, can drag a team down. Now the Knicks can move forward without having to worry about it.
And that brings us to the second key: moving forward. New York is now unquestionably Kristaps Porzingis’ team, with a sprinkling of Frank Ntilikina thrown in. After Phil Jackson shockingly disparaged his future franchise player, the Knicks hung on to Porzingis. That might prove to have saved the franchise. He’s one of the NBA’s most unique talents and he’s far from a finished product. He’ll only continue to grow and now he can do it knowing that he’s the future.
As for Ntilikina, the old adage says that the best thing you can do for a young point guard is give him shooters and finishers. The Knicks now have both. As one of the youngest players in the league, having just turned 19, Ntilikina can now grow into his role without the pressure of having to keep Anthony happy while learning the NBA game.
It wasn’t a great return for New York, but a great return could hardly be expected. They did OK. Sometimes OK is just fine, and oftentimes what looks OK initially ends up being far better when you look back on it.
Grade for the Knicks: C+
With the specter of the unbeatable Golden State Warriors hanging over the NBA, many expected some teams to punt the season and wait for the inevitable breakup of the champs. In reality, no one chose that path this summer, but no team eschewed it more than the Oklahoma City Thunder. The Thunder kicked off the summer by trading for Paul George, in what many saw (and still see) as a one year rental before he heads off to Los Angeles. Then the Thunder added savvy veterans in Patrick Patterson and Raymond Felton to help round out the rotation. But Sam Presti wasn’t done yet.
Presti completed a remarkable makeover by swinging for the fences in acquiring Anthony. It cost him two valuable bench players in Kanter and McDermott, but that is hardly something that can’t be overcome. In years past, we’d laud a team for trading two reserves to acquire a career 20+ points per game scorer. In this new world where we are more educated and analyze things like efficiency, depth and chemistry, there are some questions that come along with this acquisition.
Chief among them is: how do three players who are used to being the primary scorer, and taking every big shot, function together on the same team? The pessimist says “Not well and this will fail, because none of the three have complementary type of games.” The optimist says “It has worked in the past with teams like the Heat and Warriors and it can work again.”
For the Thunder to reach the heights they are aiming for, someone out of Russell Westbrook, George and Anthony has to not only accept a secondary role, but a tertiary one. With the Heat, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh happily slid down in the pecking order. On the Warriors, the players behind Stephen Curry and Kevin Durant have specific skillsets that allow them to fit with just about anyone. In Oklahoma City, you have three scorers who are used to playing a style of “Give me the ball and get out of my way.” That style allowed Russell Westbrook to win the MVP, while averaging a triple-double for an entire season, and has lifted Anthony and George to their current positions.
But while it is fair to question if they can step back, don’t make the mistake of forgetting that all three have done so already. Westbrook spent every year of his career before last playing Robin to Durant’s Batman. He is more than capable of ceding some shots and focusing on being a playmaker. He’s done it before and he’ll do it again.
George spent the early years of his ascension to superstardom paired with Danny Granger. He ultimately blossomed after Granger's injury issues, but George has a versatile skillset he’s been waiting to unleash. He’s an underrated passer and generally a far better defender than he showed last season. George witnessed the Heat making it work first hand in back-to-back playoff defeats. He’s smart enough to know what to do to make this work.
That leaves Anthony. For his entire career, he’s been the man. Sure, there was a brief interlude where he teamed with Allen Iverson, but Iverson was on the backside of his career by that point. In New York, he was supposed to form a duo with Amar’e Stoudemire, but Stoudemire was never healthy enough to pull that off. These failures are far from Anthony’s fault, and he’s excelled on just as big of a stage being a complementary piece.
The Melo we love most is Olympics Melo. The deadly sniper who gladly accepted a bench role and helped lead Team USA back on top of the international basketball world. In those competitions we got to see arguably the best version of Anthony we’ve ever seen: a scoring weapon who excelled when unburdened of the pressure to carry a squad on his own. In Oklahoma City, paired with two All-Star level players, Anthony can focus on being Olympics Melo. He’ll play a lot at the 4, as he does on Team USA, which is something we’ve all begged to see him do in the NBA for years now. At power forward, his defensive deficiencies aren’t nearly as pronounced. He lacks the quickness to stay with top tier wings, but he has the smarts and bulk to bang with bigs. Playing alongside one of the premier defensive big men in Steven Adams, Anthony’s lack of shot blocking isn’t a concern. And with four capable and willing rebounders, Anthony won’t be lacking there either, and he might even prove to excel in that category.
The Thunder probably aren’t good enough to beat the Warriors, but they are closer than they were before this trade. They can go big with Adams and Patterson up front, Anthony and George on the wings and Westbrook running the show. They can go small, taking Adams out and inserting Andre’ Roberson. They can use Adams and Roberson with the three stars when they need defense. Or pull both for Patterson and Alex Abrines, who will have to perform on a short bench, when they need offense. That short bench will likely be fortified in season, as Oklahoma City is now a prime destination for buyout candidates.
The only way a team can hope to beat Golden State is by reasonably matching their versatility. Before this trade, the Thunder couldn’t do that. Maybe they can now. The future is still unclear, as Westbrook has yet to sign the Designated Player Veteran Extension that is waiting for him. George hasn’t committed to anything beyond this year. Anthony is older and could be an almost $29 million albatross next year if this fails. But Sam Presti sent a message with his moves this summer. He’s not going to sit around waiting for things to come his way. He’s making things happen and we’re all better off for it as NBA fans.
Grade for the Thunder: A-