I suspected this for awhile, but it's starting to become hard to not notice. When you run a franchise, you often think like a business and have long term strategies beyond just drafting this guy or trading for this player, etc. A lot of teams promote specific brands or ideals. What I'm noticing at least, is an emphasis on European talent as of late. This makes sense for the Knicks as New York is a world capital with communities from all over the globe. We are also seeing an increasing number of prospects coming out of Europe as of late. The way this league goes, teams must recruit players. It's not enough to draft them anymore, and gaining an edge recruiting one of the emerging markets for talent seems like a logical business strategy.
Or we might just have ended up with all these euros by chance. If this is the Knicks strategy, it actually gives me some faith because usually I can't tell that they even have a strategy—just random moves that they pray move the needle. Y'all calling BS on this or you agree? And do you think it is a good idea?
I think its good for several reasons. There is a more team oriented style of ball and thats a positive. Any time the whole playss greater than the sum of the parts your doing something right and I think we are moving toward that potential with the new wave of youth.
A team concept is also easier on the brain. Why do you think Durant went to OKC? He's in a position to just be part of a team, rather than Kevin, Russel and the gang. There is a mental freedom if you are alleviated of the "I have to do this" burden. Its about the environment and its a huge positive. In the end its just feelings because Durant ended up being the most important after all... but I think he sees it as easier to be that.
NY is a great place to win. Even better when you can win and not also be blamed for every loss. I think KP is looking to lead the right way. With work ethic. Being the hardest working hardest playing guy and let the coach coach. THAT is why Pop wins every year, because his stars have been brought up through the system, play this way and lead this way. This has players flocking there every year. Pop is not an easy coach to play for.
I like the guys we are bringing in to look at and build around. But the EU and US guys. Cant wait to see Frank 
For years the Knicks were near the bottom of the league when it came to signing or drafting European talent. Might have something to do with Milos Vujanic stiffing the Knicks, and Lampe fizzling out. Lampe BTW went back to Europe and had a respectable career.
I believe the Knicks realized that they were capped out, their draft picks squandered, Europe was a good source of talent, players less in demand than top talent in the US, but who could still ball.
Thats true now of many countries around the world. Basketball is more Global than ever.
fishmike wrote:I think its good for several reasons. There is a more team oriented style of ball and thats a positive. Any time the whole playss greater than the sum of the parts your doing something right and I think we are moving toward that potential with the new wave of youth.A team concept is also easier on the brain. Why do you think Durant went to OKC? He's in a position to just be part of a team, rather than Kevin, Russel and the gang. There is a mental freedom if you are alleviated of the "I have to do this" burden. Its about the environment and its a huge positive. In the end its just feelings because Durant ended up being the most important after all... but I think he sees it as easier to be that.
NY is a great place to win. Even better when you can win and not also be blamed for every loss. I think KP is looking to lead the right way. With work ethic. Being the hardest working hardest playing guy and let the coach coach. THAT is why Pop wins every year, because his stars have been brought up through the system, play this way and lead this way. This has players flocking there every year. Pop is not an easy coach to play for.
I like the guys we are bringing in to look at and build around. But the EU and US guys. Cant wait to see Frank
Agreed. I have no problem with it either. Sometimes you have to be creative in acquiring talent when you don't have a ton of assets other teams covet and the previous regime traded our picks.
The New York Knicks are the place to be if you're a talented foreign born player!
nixluva wrote:The New York Knicks are the place to be if you're a talented foreign born player!
NBA should gift us Doncic
San Antonio can garner some Credit here. Yet it’s not only KP/Wily/Nitty and Enes. Noah is French and is fluent. Sure he’s acclimated but his Dad, a tennis Champion for France is a Frenchman and so is the family. That’s 5. If XRM makes it (and I hope he does, that will make it 1/2 dozen as he’s Canadian.
Paris907 wrote:San Antonio can garner some Credit here. Yet it’s not only KP/Wily/Nitty and Enes. Noah is French and is fluent. Sure he’s acclimated but his Dad, a tennis Champion for France is a Frenchman and so is the family. That’s 5. If XRM makes it (and I hope he does, that will make it 1/2 dozen as he’s Canadian.
Because Canada is part of Europe?
I've been saying this for a long time here: us being the 'international' team is a great thing. NYC inherently has pockets of people from all over the world. That doesn't exist elsewhere. I live in the greater DC area and you get people from all over, but you don't really get them clustered together. Kanter was talking about how he lives in NYC because there are Turkish people and Turkish food all over. It is his home away from home - he can probably live his life speaking Turkish, outside of basketball
If Phil Jackson at least got Steve Mills to recognize that system basketball works, well then it is even better. European players have more developed basic skills. Also, look no farther than Willy... you can get real value in the second round when you look outside the USA. Our owner is loaded... MSG would be able to support an entire team of international scouts. I wouldn't expect, say, Milwaukee to keep pace
SupremeCommander wrote:I've been saying this for a long time here: us being the 'international' team is a great thing. NYC inherently has pockets of people from all over the world. That doesn't exist elsewhere. I live in the greater DC area and you get people from all over, but you don't really get them clustered together. Kanter was talking about how he lives in NYC because there are Turkish people and Turkish food all over. It is his home away from home - he can probably live his life speaking Turkish, outside of basketballIf Phil Jackson at least got Steve Mills to recognize that system basketball works, well then it is even better. European players have more developed basic skills. Also, look no farther than Willy... you can get real value in the second round when you look outside the USA. Our owner is loaded... MSG would be able to support an entire team of international scouts. I wouldn't expect, say, Milwaukee to keep pace
also NBA economics have changed. NBA salaries (with the new CBA) have totally eclipsed the EU contracts. 10 years ago it made no sense for elite EU players to come over for $2-$3mm a year contract and fight for roles on the NBA roster. Things have changed. Now signing a guy for 3/$20mm is NBA chump change you can lure real talent.
If the Knicks start winning some games this will be a very attractive destination for that FA pool, and its a good one.
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I've been saying this for a long time here: us being the 'international' team is a great thing. NYC inherently has pockets of people from all over the world. That doesn't exist elsewhere. I live in the greater DC area and you get people from all over, but you don't really get them clustered together. Kanter was talking about how he lives in NYC because there are Turkish people and Turkish food all over. It is his home away from home - he can probably live his life speaking Turkish, outside of basketballIf Phil Jackson at least got Steve Mills to recognize that system basketball works, well then it is even better. European players have more developed basic skills. Also, look no farther than Willy... you can get real value in the second round when you look outside the USA. Our owner is loaded... MSG would be able to support an entire team of international scouts. I wouldn't expect, say, Milwaukee to keep pace
also NBA economics have changed. NBA salaries (with the new CBA) have totally eclipsed the EU contracts. 10 years ago it made no sense for elite EU players to come over for $2-$3mm a year contract and fight for roles on the NBA roster. Things have changed. Now signing a guy for 3/$20mm is NBA chump change you can lure real talent.If the Knicks start winning some games this will be a very attractive destination for that FA pool, and its a good one.
My real hope is that ownership isn't satisfied with 'just' Gaines... they go out and hire 10 more like him and just own that space. With the way the draft works, no NBA team can own the ACC or Big East or whichever NCAA league. I think there is real value to controlling Spain or Italy or Croatia... maybe you go a couple of years without a legit prospect but when there is one available, there really would be no competition.
On a side note, I really wish we had pursued Milos Teodosic. I know we want to get younger, but I think he'd help recruit more international players
SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I've been saying this for a long time here: us being the 'international' team is a great thing. NYC inherently has pockets of people from all over the world. That doesn't exist elsewhere. I live in the greater DC area and you get people from all over, but you don't really get them clustered together. Kanter was talking about how he lives in NYC because there are Turkish people and Turkish food all over. It is his home away from home - he can probably live his life speaking Turkish, outside of basketballIf Phil Jackson at least got Steve Mills to recognize that system basketball works, well then it is even better. European players have more developed basic skills. Also, look no farther than Willy... you can get real value in the second round when you look outside the USA. Our owner is loaded... MSG would be able to support an entire team of international scouts. I wouldn't expect, say, Milwaukee to keep pace
also NBA economics have changed. NBA salaries (with the new CBA) have totally eclipsed the EU contracts. 10 years ago it made no sense for elite EU players to come over for $2-$3mm a year contract and fight for roles on the NBA roster. Things have changed. Now signing a guy for 3/$20mm is NBA chump change you can lure real talent.If the Knicks start winning some games this will be a very attractive destination for that FA pool, and its a good one.
My real hope is that ownership isn't satisfied with 'just' Gaines... they go out and hire 10 more like him and just own that space. With the way the draft works, no NBA team can own the ACC or Big East or whichever NCAA league. I think there is real value to controlling Spain or Italy or Croatia... maybe you go a couple of years without a legit prospect but when there is one available, there really would be no competition.
On a side note, I really wish we had pursued Milos Teodosic. I know we want to get younger, but I think he'd help recruit more international players
Agree but I think the Knicks need to win a little first. They are still an NBA dumpster fire until they prove otherwise. I am bullish on the direction of the team and the guys they are bringing in, but Im a fan. A non Knick fan will do 2 seconds of looking and see most major sport outlets report MSG, Dolan's Knicks and the NY media as all things to avoid. That needs to change.. at least a little. Winning will do that instantly. I dont remember much Dolan banter when the Knicks were on top of the Atlantic during that one great stretch with Melo here.
Two thirds of our roster is not European.
Bonn1997 wrote:Paris907 wrote:San Antonio can garner some Credit here. Yet it’s not only KP/Wily/Nitty and Enes. Noah is French and is fluent. Sure he’s acclimated but his Dad, a tennis Champion for France is a Frenchman and so is the family. That’s 5. If XRM makes it (and I hope he does, that will make it 1/2 dozen as he’s Canadian.
Because Canada is part of Europe?
Lol.
Good point by thread poster in regards to NY being a good place to bring in foreign players. As it is the melting pot. And can only help the business side as such.
Euros are all very skilled players. Think the Knicks have done a good job expanding and scouting the World talent pool. Now they just have to be taught NBA tough hard nose physical basketball. As some would say Euros settle for jump shots and are too soft. Maybe sign them up to a league at Rucker Park each summer.
HofstraBBall wrote:Lol.Good point by thread poster in regards to NY being a good place to bring in foreign players. As it is the melting pot. And can only help the business side as such.
Euros are all very skilled players. Think the Knicks have done a good job expanding and scouting the World talent pool. Now they just have to be taught NBA tough hard nose physical basketball. As some would say Euros settle for jump shots and are too soft. Maybe sign them up to a league at Rucker Park each summer.
Yeah, we need to ingrain that America style of ball into them lol Hard to believe these Euros could thrive in systems that stress fundamentals and dont provide hookers and cash to players entering their developmental leagues. We got a lot of work to do to get Frank up to snuff. Little things pimpin' Instagram "models." Look at KP. He still hasn't figured that part out.
Dave Blatt will like coaching the Euro's!!!
What about Beas?? Dude is from another planet!!!
BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Lol.Good point by thread poster in regards to NY being a good place to bring in foreign players. As it is the melting pot. And can only help the business side as such.
Euros are all very skilled players. Think the Knicks have done a good job expanding and scouting the World talent pool. Now they just have to be taught NBA tough hard nose physical basketball. As some would say Euros settle for jump shots and are too soft. Maybe sign them up to a league at Rucker Park each summer.
Yeah, we need to ingrain that America style of ball into them lol Hard to believe these Euros could thrive in systems that stress fundamentals and dont provide hookers and cash to players entering their developmental leagues. We got a lot of work to do to get Frank up to snuff. Little things pimpin' Instagram "models." Look at KP. He still hasn't figured that part out.
Since Euros start playing professionally earlier than our kids do, I'd say the $$ incentives are already there. KP, Frank, and I think Willy, too, were all pros in their mid teens.
As for Euros being soft, I've watched a number of full games Frank played in and did the same with KP a few years ago. They play U.S. ball, and they are physical, almost to the point of being dirty, at times. Also have to remember that there are many American players playing in Europe, too.
The game has changed there...I just don't see it as being less physical. Time to look at Euro ball differently than how we saw it when European players in the NBA were a novelty.
The big difference is that the Euros and better S. American teams play a more disciplined, team-oriented, systematic style of ball, in many ways, and I don't see this as a bad thing.
WaltLongmire wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Lol.Good point by thread poster in regards to NY being a good place to bring in foreign players. As it is the melting pot. And can only help the business side as such.
Euros are all very skilled players. Think the Knicks have done a good job expanding and scouting the World talent pool. Now they just have to be taught NBA tough hard nose physical basketball. As some would say Euros settle for jump shots and are too soft. Maybe sign them up to a league at Rucker Park each summer.
Yeah, we need to ingrain that America style of ball into them lol Hard to believe these Euros could thrive in systems that stress fundamentals and dont provide hookers and cash to players entering their developmental leagues. We got a lot of work to do to get Frank up to snuff. Little things pimpin' Instagram "models." Look at KP. He still hasn't figured that part out.
Since Euros start playing professionally earlier than our kids do, I'd say the $$ incentives are already there. KP, Frank, and I think Willy, too, were all pros in their mid teens.As for Euros being soft, I've watched a number of full games Frank played in and did the same with KP a few years ago. They play U.S. ball, and they are physical, almost to the point of being dirty, at times. Also have to remember that there are many American players playing in Europe, too.
The game has changed there...I just don't see it as being less physical. Time to look at Euro ball differently than how we saw it when European players in the NBA were a novelty.
The big difference is that the Euros and better S. American teams play a more disciplined, team-oriented, systematic style of ball, in many ways, and I don't see this as a bad thing.
I'll go a step forward and say our developmental system here is broken, from the grassroots all the way to the NCAA. The fact that European guys are labeled pros at an earlier age forces them to mature earlier. They're not force fed minutes simply because they were labeled as top 50 recruit out of highschool. They're fighting grown men for playing time in many cases and can't afford to rest on their laurels. It's sink or swim. They have to focus on basketball or get cycled out.
