GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Frank's D is very good now. Can be elite level as he learns more.
His passing is very good. His shot is smooth. He hesitates and defers to his teammates sometimes too much but all in all, he is solid and his future looks very good.
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTM Check this out. Frank is holding his opponents to an EFG of 40%. That is mind numbingly low. Some others for context: Chris Paul .472 Frank .400 Patty Mills .504 Lowry .484 Chris Dunn .494 Steph Curry .452 Kemba .475 Lilliard .489 Wall .467 Kyrie .433 Dennis Smith .543 Jarrtt Jack .512
Eye test, metrics, stats... everything already says Frank's defense is already elite, and everyone watching knows he's only going to improve.
I just dont get how Frank's defense doesnt have him in the conversation of best in his draft class. Surely Tatum has been great but in league where opposing PGs run amok nightly the Knicks might just have one of the most valueable chips on their roster. Combine him with KP and another and you are building an iron curtain.
Frank hung with Kryie and locked him down in the 4th while the Knicks won that game. Will Irving adjust and come back? Of course, but highlight dunks are nice. Lockdown 4th qtr defense for wins against elite talent? Priceless. But that's just one's guy's opinion.
Last night he played great D again, 7pts, 7rebs, 5assists, 2TOs, 1 steal and 2 blocks. He was -2 in 25 minutes in a close game.
I'm not sure what the metrics say, but Frank's defense is solid, especially for a rookie, but I wouldn't call it elite by any stretch YET. He's not making any all defensive teams as a rookie, so I wouldn't call it elite. Now, I definitely see the potential for it to get to that level but he's not there now. And there's nothing wrong with that. He still has plenty of room and time to grow.
By all metrics and visuals he is 100% playing elite defense. Locking down and frustrating the best 1on1 PG’s in the league and playing excellent help defense. Not sure what PG is playing better D than he.
I feel like Zebo does but I am biased... I admit it. So I am wondering who the guys are in the league people want Frank to defend more like.
There isn’t a PG right now that defends as well as Ntlikina. Go up and down the league and you will come away mesmerized at how good Ntlikina’s defense is. I’m not gonna lie watching the Knicks on defense my eyes are absolutely locked in on Ntlikina watching him play defense. Kind of reminds me of how most people were locked in on Lawrence Taylor when he played.
It is amazing how methodical Ntlikina is in his approach to defense.
Frank is definitely ahead of the curve when it comes to defense for a rook. But the best defensive PG in the league? Cant agree. Too easy to shake him laterally right now. He may very well get there sooner than his competition anticipates, but Frank ain't there yet.
who is?
Most of the top rated defensive PGs in the league. The ones who start against, and defend, the best starting PGs night in and night out. Who know each other's game inside out. Not going up mostly against second units, in limited minutes.
Those PGs are more laterally sound than Frank, because they're used to defending players who are as just as fast north and south, as they are east and west. Some of it has to do with getting around screens. I believe you guys are getting a bit ahead of yourselves.
Still, there's only a handful of those guys this year. Beverly? Out with knee injury. Holiday? Plays 2 now. Conley? Who knows when he'll be back? Frank is up there.
Didn't think saying Frank wasnt the best defensive PG in the league as a rookie would be so controversial, lol. Guess it speaks to Frank's defense. Frank hasn't seen everything to be the top defender. Hasnt been sufficiently tested. Frank also has to be able to maintain his D, and contribute more on offense, be more aggresive. That takes stamina.
When Frank carries the load of a starting PG, thats when we'll know he's the best. Not off the bench, against players who dont know him very well, yet. They are learning. When I dont see Frank get juked laterally, off the dribble (easily at times) he'll be in the conversation. PGs out there who are better at staying on their hip, instead of the PG creating space.
No controversy. I understand your point. But there is only a handful of the guys you are referring too off the bat. You have Chris Paul, who you have to rank ahead now...but then who else? Injuries have taken some guys put this year. You want to put Kris Dunn? I'd put Frank ahead. Lowry? I haven't seen his stats, but I have to put him up there. Frank's recovery is what makes him special. Off the switch, on his man he still manages to contest. I get that there's some areas that he can improve. But his defense already ranks with the best as a rookie.
thats how I see it... however the comment that Frank has to prove it over time is 100% fair and true, but that is where the "he's 19" part is relevent. We are seeing high caliber, bordering on elite defense for extended minutes. We see it enough to call it real. Its only the first part buts its huge. We know he can do it. We know he can shut down elite players for extended stretches. Now we need to see him play starter minutes and sustain. Another HUGE if, I admit that for sure! I am betting Frank does also which is what drives my confidence. He's both humble and driven. He's team first. He's a hard worker. He wants to win. Athleticism? check. Heart? check. Tough? check. Sustainable? We gotta see. But hey, he's 19
GustavBahler@ 1/9/2018 6:55 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Vmart wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Zebo13 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Frank's D is very good now. Can be elite level as he learns more.
His passing is very good. His shot is smooth. He hesitates and defers to his teammates sometimes too much but all in all, he is solid and his future looks very good.
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTM Check this out. Frank is holding his opponents to an EFG of 40%. That is mind numbingly low. Some others for context: Chris Paul .472 Frank .400 Patty Mills .504 Lowry .484 Chris Dunn .494 Steph Curry .452 Kemba .475 Lilliard .489 Wall .467 Kyrie .433 Dennis Smith .543 Jarrtt Jack .512
Eye test, metrics, stats... everything already says Frank's defense is already elite, and everyone watching knows he's only going to improve.
I just dont get how Frank's defense doesnt have him in the conversation of best in his draft class. Surely Tatum has been great but in league where opposing PGs run amok nightly the Knicks might just have one of the most valueable chips on their roster. Combine him with KP and another and you are building an iron curtain.
Frank hung with Kryie and locked him down in the 4th while the Knicks won that game. Will Irving adjust and come back? Of course, but highlight dunks are nice. Lockdown 4th qtr defense for wins against elite talent? Priceless. But that's just one's guy's opinion.
Last night he played great D again, 7pts, 7rebs, 5assists, 2TOs, 1 steal and 2 blocks. He was -2 in 25 minutes in a close game.
I'm not sure what the metrics say, but Frank's defense is solid, especially for a rookie, but I wouldn't call it elite by any stretch YET. He's not making any all defensive teams as a rookie, so I wouldn't call it elite. Now, I definitely see the potential for it to get to that level but he's not there now. And there's nothing wrong with that. He still has plenty of room and time to grow.
By all metrics and visuals he is 100% playing elite defense. Locking down and frustrating the best 1on1 PG’s in the league and playing excellent help defense. Not sure what PG is playing better D than he.
I feel like Zebo does but I am biased... I admit it. So I am wondering who the guys are in the league people want Frank to defend more like.
There isn’t a PG right now that defends as well as Ntlikina. Go up and down the league and you will come away mesmerized at how good Ntlikina’s defense is. I’m not gonna lie watching the Knicks on defense my eyes are absolutely locked in on Ntlikina watching him play defense. Kind of reminds me of how most people were locked in on Lawrence Taylor when he played.
It is amazing how methodical Ntlikina is in his approach to defense.
Frank is definitely ahead of the curve when it comes to defense for a rook. But the best defensive PG in the league? Cant agree. Too easy to shake him laterally right now. He may very well get there sooner than his competition anticipates, but Frank ain't there yet.
who is?
Most of the top rated defensive PGs in the league. The ones who start against, and defend, the best starting PGs night in and night out. Who know each other's game inside out. Not going up mostly against second units, in limited minutes.
Those PGs are more laterally sound than Frank, because they're used to defending players who are as just as fast north and south, as they are east and west. Some of it has to do with getting around screens. I believe you guys are getting a bit ahead of yourselves.
Still, there's only a handful of those guys this year. Beverly? Out with knee injury. Holiday? Plays 2 now. Conley? Who knows when he'll be back? Frank is up there.
Didn't think saying Frank wasnt the best defensive PG in the league as a rookie would be so controversial, lol. Guess it speaks to Frank's defense. Frank hasn't seen everything to be the top defender. Hasnt been sufficiently tested. Frank also has to be able to maintain his D, and contribute more on offense, be more aggresive. That takes stamina.
When Frank carries the load of a starting PG, thats when we'll know he's the best. Not off the bench, against players who dont know him very well, yet. They are learning. When I dont see Frank get juked laterally, off the dribble (easily at times) he'll be in the conversation. PGs out there who are better at staying on their hip, instead of the PG creating space.
No controversy. I understand your point. But there is only a handful of the guys you are referring too off the bat. You have Chris Paul, who you have to rank ahead now...but then who else? Injuries have taken some guys put this year. You want to put Kris Dunn? I'd put Frank ahead. Lowry? I haven't seen his stats, but I have to put him up there. Frank's recovery is what makes him special. Off the switch, on his man he still manages to contest. I get that there's some areas that he can improve. But his defense already ranks with the best as a rookie.
The only thing Ive said is that its too soon to call Frank the best defensive PG in the league. Believe I've made it clear that I have high regard for Frank's defense. Dont need any more convincing about Frank's skills defensively.
Now its time for Frank to work on pushing the tempo, and still have enough in the tank to show the same intensity on D, and deliver.
If Frank can develop a chip on his shoulder on offense, more Johnny on the spot (as the Brits say) Phil will have made the right pick.
For a guy that was drafted by the Mavs, the kid sure talks about the Knicks alot.
Exactly. Looks like he has picked up bad habits from his big brother Lebron. Seems very bitter that the Knicks passed on him. Im thrilled we passed on him since i like Franks overall game much better
Phil tried to make him eat calamari. How disgusting!
Nothing in this article about that. You copied the link but didn't read it?
Your link has to do with Smith's interactions with the Knicks prior to the draft. Doesn't it? I just added a little pertinent information to your post. Squid anyone?
Phil tried to make him eat calamari. How disgusting!
Nothing in this article about that. You copied the link but didn't read it?
Your link has to do with Smith's interactions with the Knicks prior to the draft. Doesn't it? I just added a little pertinent information to your post. Squid anyone?
What a Rube. Maybe a video of the calamari would help.
Phil tried to make him eat calamari. How disgusting!
Nothing in this article about that. You copied the link but didn't read it?
Your link has to do with Smith's interactions with the Knicks prior to the draft. Doesn't it? I just added a little pertinent information to your post. Squid anyone?
What a Rube. Maybe a video of the calamari would help.
As impressive as Smith jr's big games have been. If Frank played like he did the last game, every night. No less aggressive than he was that game, I would still be happy with the pick. Frank staying aggressive isnt a given. Its clear that giving up the ball ASAP is the first thing on his mind. When Frank understands that he cant always think that way, he'll be dangerous.
Phil tried to make him eat calamari. How disgusting!
Nothing in this article about that. You copied the link but didn't read it?
Your link has to do with Smith's interactions with the Knicks prior to the draft. Doesn't it? I just added a little pertinent information to your post. Squid anyone?
i posted the article because there was information in it I had not read before. For example, that was the first report that I am aware of where Smith said that the Knicks engaged him again and tried to get him to work out for the team the day before the draft. Other stuff in there as well. Millions of fluff articles talking about what was on the menu. No need to rehash that. Also, the author is one of the most connected media members in the league.
martin@ 1/17/2018 6:16 PM
I haven't seen DSJr at all except against the Knicks.
Has he played any defense this season? Anyone in the Dallas organization suggest he go to the G League to get his defensive confidence up?
Phil tried to make him eat calamari. How disgusting!
Nothing in this article about that. You copied the link but didn't read it?
Your link has to do with Smith's interactions with the Knicks prior to the draft. Doesn't it? I just added a little pertinent information to your post. Squid anyone?
What a Rube. Maybe a video of the calamari would help.
I'll send you some. Do you want it fried like your brain?
Bahahahaha. Fried Video? Yet more great banter/contribution to the board.
Frank was clearly the wrong choice, if they wanted defense they should of taken Mitchell who is so far ahead of Frank offensively its embarrassing.
Mitchell looks great. He was high on the Knick's radar. As for your comment regarding defense how are you quantifying that? The stats show something very differently.
Also Mitchell doesnt play as much PG. Majority of his minutes come playing off the ball.
Mitchell looks like an Avery Bradley clone which is a good player to have. Was Mitchell your first choice?
fishmike@ 1/18/2018 9:28 AM
Jmpasq... Mitchell is 2 year older we well. 19 vs 21 is a big gap. Why would it be embarrassing that he's more developed than Frank there? His first year in college was much like Frank's last year. Role player. Mitchell has a year playing as a featured scorer. Frank doesnt have that. We prob see that in the summer league.
Swishfm3@ 1/18/2018 10:21 AM
I wanted anyone BUT Frank Ntilikina but he is the one we drafted and are now stuck with. The fact that this thread has gone 36 pages is insane, lol!!
F. Ntilikina may never be a All-star player but, if the Knicks build the team correctly, he doesn't need to be. We have not had a potentially lock defending, pass-first PG in....YEARS (not counting Kidd). I think the Knicks are ok in this position for the next few years and now need to focus on upgrading the 3 position.
Nalod@ 1/18/2018 12:40 PM
Has bad game and was +1. Still 7 assists. Every year there is a guy that drafted after the player your favorite teams takes that is better. Mitchell is that guy this year. Frank has good games and bad games. Uneven rookie. Uneven 19 year old. Uneven euro pass first mentality we call "not aggressive". I love that he passes first. Sometimes too much. Imagine having a player that passes too much vs. shooting too much? Now to be even more effective he needs to "Be more AAU, Rucker, American, less french, What ever". Yes, he needs to shoot and hit more so his penetration is more effective. Im encouraged by what he does, not what he does wrong.
martin@ 1/18/2018 4:08 PM
Nalod wrote:Has bad game and was +1. Still 7 assists. Every year there is a guy that drafted after the player your favorite teams takes that is better. Mitchell is that guy this year. Frank has good games and bad games. Uneven rookie. Uneven 19 year old. Uneven euro pass first mentality we call "not aggressive". I love that he passes first. Sometimes too much. Imagine having a player that passes too much vs. shooting too much? Now to be even more effective he needs to "Be more AAU, Rucker, American, less french, What ever". Yes, he needs to shoot and hit more so his penetration is more effective. Im encouraged by what he does, not what he does wrong.
Feels like EVERYONE hated the way Rose played on the Knicks last year. Couldn't shoot outside of 5 feet, no defense, couldn't make a pass to save his life, never ran an offense, me-first offensive player.
Frank is literally the opposite player. We should all LOVE that
CrushAlot@ 1/18/2018 4:43 PM
Nalod wrote:Has bad game and was +1. Still 7 assists. Every year there is a guy that drafted after the player your favorite teams takes that is better. Mitchell is that guy this year. Frank has good games and bad games. Uneven rookie. Uneven 19 year old. Uneven euro pass first mentality we call "not aggressive". I love that he passes first. Sometimes too much. Imagine having a player that passes too much vs. shooting too much? Now to be even more effective he needs to "Be more AAU, Rucker, American, less french, What ever". Yes, he needs to shoot and hit more so his penetration is more effective. Im encouraged by what he does, not what he does wrong.
Some of the passing is good but there also appears to be an intense reluctance to shoot, penetrate, or even possess the ball after he passes the mid court line. One of his assists was a turnover that Kanter recovered and scored on. Can't say I was blown away by his ball movement. Maybe I am being petty but one thing I have noticed is after his initial pass to relieve himself of ball handling/playmaking duties he often makes himself not an option to receive the ball back by slowly jogging towards the baseline. Maybe that is by design but I don't recall seeing Jack do it. I will watch Jack more closely. Frank has been doing this all year except for a few games.
