Nalod wrote:Has bad game and was +1. Still 7 assists.
Every year there is a guy that drafted after the player your favorite teams takes that is better.
Mitchell is that guy this year.
Frank has good games and bad games. Uneven rookie. Uneven 19 year old. Uneven euro pass first mentality we call "not aggressive".
I love that he passes first. Sometimes too much. Imagine having a player that passes too much vs. shooting too much?
Now to be even more effective he needs to "Be more AAU, Rucker, American, less french, What ever". Yes, he needs to shoot and hit more so his penetration is more effective.
Im encouraged by what he does, not what he does wrong.
Some of the passing is good but there also appears to be an intense reluctance to shoot, penetrate, or even possess the ball after he passes the mid court line. One of his assists was a turnover that Kanter recovered and scored on. Can't say I was blown away by his ball movement. Maybe I am being petty but one thing I have noticed is after his initial pass to relieve himself of ball handling/playmaking duties he often makes himself not an option to receive the ball back by slowly jogging towards the baseline. Maybe that is by design but I don't recall seeing Jack do it. I will watch Jack more closely. Frank has been doing this all year except for a few games.
Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Time will tell but he's already half way there with his defense. I believe in his vision, passing and three point shot too. He just has to learn to drive more and develop a floater. He can do it because he's the hardest worker there is.
newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Agreed..I'm more concerned with him being consistant enough to be a legit starting pg on a legit playoff contender...All star is a little far fetched.
Uptown wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Agreed..I'm more concerned with him being consistant enough to be a legit starting pg on a legit playoff contender...All star is a little far fetched.
Why do you say that? His defense is already All Star caliber. He's at least half way there.
reub wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Time will tell but he's already half way there with his defense. I believe in his vision, passing and three point shot too. He just has to learn to drive more and develop a floater. He can do it because he's the hardest worker there is.
He would have a hard time unless he gets to 15ppg. There are just so many good offensive guards in this era and those are the guys that make All star games
Jmpasq wrote:reub wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Time will tell but he's already half way there with his defense. I believe in his vision, passing and three point shot too. He just has to learn to drive more and develop a floater. He can do it because he's the hardest worker there is.
He would have a hard time unless he gets to 15ppg. There are just so many good offensive guards in this era and those are the guys that make All star games
But they're not so good when Frank is defending them.
reub wrote:Uptown wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Agreed..I'm more concerned with him being consistant enough to be a legit starting pg on a legit playoff contender...All star is a little far fetched.
Why do you say that? His defense is already All Star caliber. He's at least half way there.
In the end, you have to score the ball and be an elite offensive player to make an allstar team...defensive players dont usually make allstar teams...Frank is showing no signs of being an elite offensive player...He's averaging 5pts per and is shooting 34% from the field. At this point, he's nowhere near half way there...
DSJ has flashier game but he’s got a long way to go before he’s a positive impact on his team. Frank is already more of a positive impact despite his low scoring.
Uptown wrote:reub wrote:Uptown wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Agreed..I'm more concerned with him being consistant enough to be a legit starting pg on a legit playoff contender...All star is a little far fetched.
Why do you say that? His defense is already All Star caliber. He's at least half way there.
In the end, you have to score the ball and be an elite offensive player to make an allstar team...defensive players dont usually make allstar teams...Frank is showing no signs of being an elite offensive player...He's averaging 5pts per and is shooting 34% from the field. At this point, he's nowhere near half way there...
Its to early to be concerned as well. Dennis Shroeder averaged 3.7pts on 38% fg, shooting 67% ft shooting and 1.9 ast on 16mins his rookie yr which equates to 10-3-5 pver 36 his rookie yr. He is now a 20-3-7 PG in his 4th yr. Frank probably won't be a 20pt pg, but Frank also shows more defensive ability then DS did his rookie yr.
The way Frank played vs Nets is a PG that can lead a team to the ECC as the floor general. Him showing those flashes are what you want to see at 19. A 19 yr old being able to control a game orchestrating a win offensively and defensively is impressive.
nixluva wrote:DSJ has flashier game but he’s got a long way to go before he’s a positive impact on his team. Frank is already more of a positive impact despite his low scoring.
I think this chart is a reflection that all Frank looks to do is pass and create for others, which is a good thing. But that does not mean that he is the most effective player overall. Frank definitely needs to be more of an offensive threat but I think he will get there.
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Has bad game and was +1. Still 7 assists.
Every year there is a guy that drafted after the player your favorite teams takes that is better.
Mitchell is that guy this year.
Frank has good games and bad games. Uneven rookie. Uneven 19 year old. Uneven euro pass first mentality we call "not aggressive".
I love that he passes first. Sometimes too much. Imagine having a player that passes too much vs. shooting too much?
Now to be even more effective he needs to "Be more AAU, Rucker, American, less french, What ever". Yes, he needs to shoot and hit more so his penetration is more effective.
Im encouraged by what he does, not what he does wrong.
Some of the passing is good but there also appears to be an intense reluctance to shoot, penetrate, or even possess the ball after he passes the mid court line. One of his assists was a turnover that Kanter recovered and scored on. Can't say I was blown away by his ball movement. Maybe I am being petty but one thing I have noticed is after his initial pass to relieve himself of ball handling/playmaking duties he often makes himself not an option to receive the ball back by slowly jogging towards the baseline. Maybe that is by design but I don't recall seeing Jack do it. I will watch Jack more closely. Frank has been doing this all year except for a few games.
I have noticed that too. Once Frank passes the ball he rarely is moving like he wants to get it back. He just jogs to a corner. He rarely cuts to the basket. Now part of it is that the guy is slim and young and does not want to get beat up by the bigs. But he has got get his nose in there more often and he has to move with a purpose after making the initial pass.
TheGame wrote:nixluva wrote:DSJ has flashier game but he’s got a long way to go before he’s a positive impact on his team. Frank is already more of a positive impact despite his low scoring.
I think this chart is a reflection that all Frank looks to do is pass and create for others, which is a good thing. But that does not mean that he is the most effective player overall. Frank definitely needs to be more of an offensive threat but I think he will get there.
It’s a given that a rookie PG is going to have holes in his game. I just think Frank has the right base to build on. He’s focused on running the team FIRST and while he’s not a factor scoring he’s at least helping his teammates to perform better which is the PRIMARY function of a PG. I expect over time he’ll improve his scoring. DSJ is Scoring but the TEAM plays worse with him on the court.
nixluva wrote:TheGame wrote:nixluva wrote:DSJ has flashier game but he’s got a long way to go before he’s a positive impact on his team. Frank is already more of a positive impact despite his low scoring.
I think this chart is a reflection that all Frank looks to do is pass and create for others, which is a good thing. But that does not mean that he is the most effective player overall. Frank definitely needs to be more of an offensive threat but I think he will get there.
It’s a given that a rookie PG is going to have holes in his game. I just think Frank has the right base to build on. He’s focused on running the team FIRST and while he’s not a factor scoring he’s at least helping his teammates to perform better which is the PRIMARY function of a PG. I expect over time he’ll improve his scoring. DSJ is Scoring but the TEAM plays worse with him on the court.
No one can knock Frank's defense and eagerness to pass. Think he will be a good player in this league. The thing that I look for is to see if he is a special player. And "Special" players have a killer insticnt, ability to know when take over a game, embracing the spotlight, ridiculous level of self confidence and are never afraid to take the big shot. Things I dont think Frank has naturally. And to be fair, not too many do. Hopefully he will improve in some but most of these are not something you can teach or learn with time. You either have it or you dont. Its what seperates the special from the average. IMO, DS and Mitchell have IT.
HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:TheGame wrote:nixluva wrote:DSJ has flashier game but he’s got a long way to go before he’s a positive impact on his team. Frank is already more of a positive impact despite his low scoring.
I think this chart is a reflection that all Frank looks to do is pass and create for others, which is a good thing. But that does not mean that he is the most effective player overall. Frank definitely needs to be more of an offensive threat but I think he will get there.
It’s a given that a rookie PG is going to have holes in his game. I just think Frank has the right base to build on. He’s focused on running the team FIRST and while he’s not a factor scoring he’s at least helping his teammates to perform better which is the PRIMARY function of a PG. I expect over time he’ll improve his scoring. DSJ is Scoring but the TEAM plays worse with him on the court.
No one can knock Frank's defense and eagerness to pass. Think he will be a good player in this league. The thing that I look for is to see if he is a special player. And "Special" players have a killer insticnt, ability to know when take over a game, embracing the spotlight, ridiculous level of self confidence and are never afraid to take the big shot. Things I dont think Frank has naturally. And to be fair, not too many do. Hopefully he will improve in some but most of these are not something you can teach or learn with time. You either have it or you dont. Its what seperates the special from the average. IMO, DS and Mitchell have IT.
problem is heart gets you to a point, then you gotta be this tall to ride this ride. Look at what happened to I Thomas in the playoffs. Smith Jr has to be one of the best offensive players ever to overcome that fact that he's smaller than Steve Nash and Steph Curry. You saw enough of DS to say he's got IT? Pa-leeze... dude didnt even play on a winning NCAA team.
Mitchell looks like Avery Bradley and he's a hell of a player but also not a PG.
Frank has shoved Lebron at MSG. Frank closed out Kyrie Irving in the 4th qtr. Frank put up a great game vs. a national hero in Parker. Frank has shown plenty of IT my man... I have seen plenty of IT from Frank. I think Frank's IT shuts down Dennis Smith's IT every time and twice on Tuesday when it comes down to a 7 game series... but time will tell 
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:TheGame wrote:nixluva wrote:DSJ has flashier game but he’s got a long way to go before he’s a positive impact on his team. Frank is already more of a positive impact despite his low scoring.
I think this chart is a reflection that all Frank looks to do is pass and create for others, which is a good thing. But that does not mean that he is the most effective player overall. Frank definitely needs to be more of an offensive threat but I think he will get there.
It’s a given that a rookie PG is going to have holes in his game. I just think Frank has the right base to build on. He’s focused on running the team FIRST and while he’s not a factor scoring he’s at least helping his teammates to perform better which is the PRIMARY function of a PG. I expect over time he’ll improve his scoring. DSJ is Scoring but the TEAM plays worse with him on the court.
No one can knock Frank's defense and eagerness to pass. Think he will be a good player in this league. The thing that I look for is to see if he is a special player. And "Special" players have a killer insticnt, ability to know when take over a game, embracing the spotlight, ridiculous level of self confidence and are never afraid to take the big shot. Things I dont think Frank has naturally. And to be fair, not too many do. Hopefully he will improve in some but most of these are not something you can teach or learn with time. You either have it or you dont. Its what seperates the special from the average. IMO, DS and Mitchell have IT.
problem is heart gets you to a point, then you gotta be this tall to ride this ride. Look at what happened to I Thomas in the playoffs. Smith Jr has to be one of the best offensive players ever to overcome that fact that he's smaller than Steve Nash and Steph Curry. You saw enough of DS to say he's got IT? Pa-leeze... dude didnt even play on a winning NCAA team.Mitchell looks like Avery Bradley and he's a hell of a player but also not a PG.
Frank has shoved Lebron at MSG. Frank closed out Kyrie Irving in the 4th qtr. Frank put up a great game vs. a national hero in Parker. Frank has shown plenty of IT my man... I have seen plenty of IT from Frank. I think Frank's IT shuts down Dennis Smith's IT every time and twice on Tuesday when it comes down to a 7 game series... but time will tell
Frank has shown the ability to take over in 4th quarters, as he has hit big shots and played lockdown defense in games we won with the game on the line. He has already made a ton of big plays when it mattered. I think to an extent that shows the IT factor people are talking about. Smith and Mitchell are both older than Frank and are American players, so Frank definitely has a steeper learning curve for those reasons. His personality is less outspoken. He's more of the silent killer-type. But everything i have seen indicates he has as much, if not more upside than Smith up to this point. Mitchell is special, no doubt. But being 2 years older and clearly more NBA ready, i expect Frank to close the gap somewhat in time.
nixluva wrote:TheGame wrote:nixluva wrote:DSJ has flashier game but he’s got a long way to go before he’s a positive impact on his team. Frank is already more of a positive impact despite his low scoring.
I think this chart is a reflection that all Frank looks to do is pass and create for others, which is a good thing. But that does not mean that he is the most effective player overall. Frank definitely needs to be more of an offensive threat but I think he will get there.
It’s a given that a rookie PG is going to have holes in his game. I just think Frank has the right base to build on. He’s focused on running the team FIRST and while he’s not a factor scoring he’s at least helping his teammates to perform better which is the PRIMARY function of a PG. I expect over time he’ll improve his scoring. DSJ is Scoring but the TEAM plays worse with him on the court.
Who the hell is making better, certainly not KP, McDermott,lance KOQ, ISO Beasley. The dude would be golden on a 90s knick team. You seem to focus on the couple of plays he does well, and miss the 5 or 6 plays he has been really bad.
Lee shoots well enough to easily be a top 10 scorer in this league, but he has a role player mentality like 80% of the roster.
Every player has the potential to be a All star, only a hand full live up to their potential. Everybody in Dallas believes DSJ will be all star, but most Knick fans will pick his game a part and focus on his negatives
HofstraBBall wrote:The thing that I look for is to see if he is a special player. And "Special" players have a killer insticnt, ability to know when take over a game, embracing the spotlight, ridiculous level of self confidence and are never afraid to take the big shot. Things I dont think Frank has naturally. And to be fair, not too many do. Hopefully he will improve in some but most of these are not something you can teach or learn with time. You either have it or you dont. Its what seperates the special from the average. IMO, DS and Mitchell have IT.
You are also describing JR Smith and Monta Ellis. Why does scoring seem to be the only facet of the game to make one "special?"
reub wrote:Jmpasq wrote:reub wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:reub wrote:Frank has been amazing for a 19 year old point guard. What defense! He'll be a perennial All Star within 2 years. We did good!
Those aren't realistic expectations. His potential is high as an all around 2 way threat. Will probably take more than 2 yrs to hone all of that into all star status though.
Time will tell but he's already half way there with his defense. I believe in his vision, passing and three point shot too. He just has to learn to drive more and develop a floater. He can do it because he's the hardest worker there is.
He would have a hard time unless he gets to 15ppg. There are just so many good offensive guards in this era and those are the guys that make All star games
But they're not so good when Frank is defending them.
Being an "all star" means jack shit. It's a fukking popularity contest for Diva's and princesses. I will take a guy that can double double and play elite defense and occasionally triple double over every garbage 20+ point chucker in the league.
