“This is all experience for him,” coach Jeff Hornacek said. “He’s 19 years old — second-youngest guy in the league. He’s not afraid of the challenge of any of these guys. That’s how you learn, playing against these players and picking up tricks.”Raving about Ntilikina’s basketball IQ, Hornacek has said not to judge him by his numbers. He’s averaging 4.6 points per game on 35.2 percent shooting with 3.4 assists and 1.8 rebounds in 19 minutes per game, 16th among rookies. But his decision-making has fallen off.
“There are times he comes off the pick-and-roll and can get in the midrange [for a shot],” Hornacek said. “It’s going to come with playing experience of driving in there and knowing where the bailouts are. Those guys drive hard to the basket, and they’re alert to knowing where to throw it when the gap closes. That’s something Frank will learn. It’s a different speed of game in this league. The gap closes a lot quicker than he’s used to. He’s getting better every day.”
Really posted this for the last paragraph. Makes a ton of sense towards the hesitation Frank has to attack. Not being confident in where the bail outs are when the gap closes.
NBA PG is the toughest to learn. Can’t get too crazy about a 19 yr old having ups and downs at this level facing the greatest competition in the world. We knew coming in that Frank wasn’t a big scorer at this stage. Still I see flashes of what he could do once he figures things out. He’s got all the time in the world to develop his game.
I love what I see from Frank and how they are bringing him along. This is just part of the process.
When he first started playing i was happy with what i saw from him but it has been getting worse and he's been looking more and more confused with every game but i'm a pretty optimistic guy and realize he's young and will need time which was already known before we drafted him. What's been really bothering me is all he does is dribble the ball up the court, stops at the top of the free throw line and then just looks to pass the ball of. He doesn't even try to drive hardly ever. We need to tell him to drive and if he makes a mistake then so be it cause no matter how we've been playing we're still a team that's rebuilding so let him make his mistakes and learn from them.
The hardest part for me is the wide open shots he turns down, thats frustrating as hell to watch. You really can't afford to do that in the NBA, especially being the pg. He's way more interested in setting guys up, and I think it won't be easy to change that frame if mind..To me he plays like charlie ward with long arms
nixluva wrote:NBA PG is the toughest to learn. Can’t get too crazy about a 19 yr old having ups and downs at this level facing the greatest competition in the world. We knew coming in that Frank wasn’t a big scorer at this stage. Still I see flashes of what he could do once he figures things out. He’s got all the time in the world to develop his game.
What! You mean he's playing like a rookie who's played less than a quarter of an NBA season. Trade him. Chris Paul is probably the only top point guard whose game was ready made for a championship contender out the gate. John Wall? Impressive for a rookie, but still trash. Steph Curry? Same thing. Dame Lilliard? Good offensive player, but defensive liability. Look at some the players in this year's class. They all have a long way to go. He'll get better.
newyorknewyork wrote:“This is all experience for him,” coach Jeff Hornacek said. “He’s 19 years old — second-youngest guy in the league. He’s not afraid of the challenge of any of these guys. That’s how you learn, playing against these players and picking up tricks.”Raving about Ntilikina’s basketball IQ, Hornacek has said not to judge him by his numbers. He’s averaging 4.6 points per game on 35.2 percent shooting with 3.4 assists and 1.8 rebounds in 19 minutes per game, 16th among rookies. But his decision-making has fallen off.
“There are times he comes off the pick-and-roll and can get in the midrange [for a shot],” Hornacek said. “It’s going to come with playing experience of driving in there and knowing where the bailouts are. Those guys drive hard to the basket, and they’re alert to knowing where to throw it when the gap closes. That’s something Frank will learn. It’s a different speed of game in this league. The gap closes a lot quicker than he’s used to. He’s getting better every day.”
Really posted this for the last paragraph. Makes a ton of sense towards the hesitation Frank has to attack. Not being confident in where the bail outs are when the gap closes.
Hornacek is spot on about Frank's BBall IQ, his court vision. Also about the speed of the NBA game, and how the lane closes up faster. Its also true that Frank has seen some 6-lane superhighways, that he has passed on as well. Only way he is going to get to the next level is to start being more aggressive.
Frank is starting to slump in part because teams are scouting him, playing the passing lanes closer, because, they know Frank is going to give up the ball. Time for Frank to punish other teams for the early scouting reports.
Frank is getting to the line .08 times a game, that speaks to the problem as well. Im sure once he gets a few easy buckets, things will improve. Not until he becomes more aggressive.
nixluva wrote:NBA PG is the toughest to learn. Can’t get too crazy about a 19 yr old having ups and downs at this level facing the greatest competition in the world. We knew coming in that Frank wasn’t a big scorer at this stage. Still I see flashes of what he could do once he figures things out. He’s got all the time in the world to develop his game.
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.
SupremeCommander wrote:nixluva wrote:NBA PG is the toughest to learn. Can’t get too crazy about a 19 yr old having ups and downs at this level facing the greatest competition in the world. We knew coming in that Frank wasn’t a big scorer at this stage. Still I see flashes of what he could do once he figures things out. He’s got all the time in the world to develop his game.
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.
There are times i See the talent and times he makes me wonder. I like his disposition which is calm generally and he stays within himself. Yet I’m not seeing the assists as much. To be a all star is a stretch, a starter on a playoff team - probable. A Rotation player possible.
Zero complaints about Frank. He's doing fine. These little things he needs to learn will come.... when they do he's gonna be a very good. He's getting by now on IQ alone. That to me is scary in of itself
SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.
3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.
I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.
A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
Those numbers show a much more aggressive player. A player getting the rim, getting to the line. I keep hearing this is perfectly normal, not for an 8 pick. Not for a PG, at any age. Not trying to be a killjoy, just want to see Frank show more of a chip on his shoulder. The longer he waits, the tougher it will get. Look at Jerian Grant, still has that deer in the headlights look when he plays. Want to see Frank work this out sooner rather than later. Its already affecting the team, because they know Frank will give up the ball.
arkrud wrote:A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
GustavBahler wrote:Those numbers show a much more aggressive player. A player getting the rim, getting to the line. I keep hearing this is perfectly normal, not for an 8 pick. Not for a PG, at any age. Not trying to be a killjoy, just want to see Frank show more of a chip on his shoulder. The longer he waits, the tougher it will get. Look at Jerian Grant, still has that deer in the headlights look when he plays. Want to see Frank work this out sooner rather than later. Its already affecting the team, because they know Frank will give up the ball.
arkrud wrote:A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
This is a kid coming out of the Euro league, much different environment than AAU, NCAA and whatnot.
GustavBahler wrote:Those numbers show a much more aggressive player. A player getting the rim, getting to the line. I keep hearing this is perfectly normal, not for an 8 pick. Not for a PG, at any age. Not trying to be a killjoy, just want to see Frank show more of a chip on his shoulder. The longer he waits, the tougher it will get. Look at Jerian Grant, still has that deer in the headlights look when he plays. Want to see Frank work this out sooner rather than later. Its already affecting the team, because they know Frank will give up the ball.
arkrud wrote:A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
It is clear that he is not asked to take the game over and be aggressive regardless of the game situations.
This is not his role - he is in to defend and run the offense. The coach and veterans mentoring him used to be this type of players.
We have TJR and KP to jack up as many shots as they want with many shooters coming in just to receive the ball.
He does exactly what we need but he is not good at it on NBA level yet an don't physically strong enough to get to the rim.
He and the team are in perfect situation to see his progress through without any pressure.
IDK about that, seems like PGs coming out of Europe these days are more aggressive. Not looking for Frank to get buckets, but to take it the other team. Being more aggresive will make it easier on his teammates as well. Same thing as Baker. Maybe Im just tired of seeing so many PGs come through NY with the same issue. Rose was a bad joke of a solution, unfortunately.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Those numbers show a much more aggressive player. A player getting the rim, getting to the line. I keep hearing this is perfectly normal, not for an 8 pick. Not for a PG, at any age. Not trying to be a killjoy, just want to see Frank show more of a chip on his shoulder. The longer he waits, the tougher it will get. Look at Jerian Grant, still has that deer in the headlights look when he plays. Want to see Frank work this out sooner rather than later. Its already affecting the team, because they know Frank will give up the ball.
arkrud wrote:A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
This is a kid coming out of the Euro league, much different environment than AAU, NCAA and whatnot.
arkrud wrote:A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
Also check out a guy like Jrue Holiday's first year per 36 minutes stats. Jrue shot better, tho we're talking about smaller sample sizes, and he got to the line about as much as Frank does now. Both were 19 coming into the league. And Frank hasn't even played half a season yet. It's way too early to read anything into anything. The 8th pick has been up and down every year. It's not like he was picked #1. Frank is progressing nicely. This is what developing young talent looks like. Remember the days when Lin had trouble dribbling the ball past the half court line when pressure. Or when Wilson Chandler had trouble driving in the half court? Or when Trevor Ariza could barely shoot or dribble. Guys do develop.
Dont believe it is clear that Frank is being told not to be more aggressive. Ive seen players during a break in the action encourage him to be more aggressive. Trust me on this, Hornacek would love to see Frank drive more, but he's looking out for him, trying to keep the pressure off. Part of running the offense is taking what the defense gives you. When you pass up opportunities to drive or shoot, you aren't doing that when it comes to your game. Frank doesnt have to be explosive, just needs to stop hesitating, and its pretty clear thats what he's doing.
arkrud wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Those numbers show a much more aggressive player. A player getting the rim, getting to the line. I keep hearing this is perfectly normal, not for an 8 pick. Not for a PG, at any age. Not trying to be a killjoy, just want to see Frank show more of a chip on his shoulder. The longer he waits, the tougher it will get. Look at Jerian Grant, still has that deer in the headlights look when he plays. Want to see Frank work this out sooner rather than later. Its already affecting the team, because they know Frank will give up the ball.
arkrud wrote:A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
It is clear that he is not asked to take the game over and be aggressive regardless of the game situations.
This is not his role - he is in to defend and run the offense. The coach and veterans mentoring him used to be this type of players.
We have TJR and KP to jack up as many shots as they want with many shooters coming in just to receive the ball.
He does exactly what we need but he is not good at it on NBA level yet an don't physically strong enough to get to the rim.
He and the team are in perfect situation to see his progress through without any pressure.
Even when Frank is more fully developed I don’t expect him to be a league leader in drives to the basket. Not every PG is going to be an aggressive rim attack type. Sure Frank needs to improve and take the opening but he’s got to be true to his nature as well. There’s a LONG way to go for this kids development and what he’ll eventually become.
It took a loooong time for Chandler to start being aggressive. Wasnt in NY, only when he heard trade rumors.
BigDaddyG wrote:arkrud wrote:A lot of fans want 19-year old ruk to became a star right away...
This is puzzling to say the list.
Below are points of one dude we all know and he was 3 years older ruk... he should be traded after first season for not driving to much and not taking all open shots
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
1967-68 22 NYK NBA PG 74 21.5 3.5 7.7 0.451 3.5 7.7 0.451 0.451 2.1 3.2 0.655 4.2 4.1 2.7 9
1968-69 23 NYK NBA PG 80 36.9 6.6 13.2 0.505 6.6 13.2 0.505 0.505 4.3 5.7 0.746 6.2 7.9 3.1 17.5
1969-70 24 NYK NBA PG 77 39.5 7.8 15 0.518 7.8 15 0.518 0.518 5.3 7.1 0.748 6 8.2 2.6 20.9
Also check out a guy like Jrue Holiday's first year per 36 minutes stats. Jrue shot better, tho we're talking about smaller sample sizes, and he got to the line about as much as Frank does now. Both were 19 coming into the league. And Frank hasn't even played half a season yet. It's way too early to read anything into anything. The 8th pick has been up and down every year. It's not like he was picked #1. Frank is progressing nicely. This is what developing young talent looks like. Remember the days when Lin had trouble dribbling the ball past the half court line when pressure. Or when Wilson Chandler had trouble driving in the half court? Or when Trevor Ariza could barely shoot or dribble. Guys do develop.
GustavBahler wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.
3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.
I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.
Nah, no way I would trade him unless it's a no brainer deal of course. But he should be given the full length of his rookie deal.
He is tops in stls and deflections and has elite on ball defensive potential and his jumper has potential. We will also most likey maintain 2 bigs which a 3-D PG like Frank if that's all his potential leads to be would thrive. His potential in this fields earns him leeway of developing for his full rookie deal.
Let alone changing the impatient culture of dumping draft picks if they aren't ready made after only 2 yrs which we are known for.
We have seen flashes of him changing gears and getting g into the lane. So we still can't claim it's a physical thing which he can't overcome. May be more of a confidence thing which will come when he is more of a vet and his body has been developed some more and he is absorbing contact better. And has confidence in where to get the ball to as well as absorbing contact if the lane does close out on him.
